Muslim group, Ansar al-Sunna, demand breakaway Islamic nation in Norway or another 9/11 threatened

reply to post by babloyi


Hmm, so who is building all these huge Mosques? You don't think they have any influence? Who gives authority to the morality police?

Only churches that are a part of the big organized denominations like the Catholics and the Mormons have hierarchies, and they are the ones with the big fancy churches, similar to the giant mosques. These giant buildings require an organization to build them and maintain them, so your claims that these organizations do not exist in Islam rings false.

Most independent Christian churches have no hierarchy, they are lead by the pastor who founded the church, and funded by donations. Their churches are small and plain, and are not surrounded by isolated communities.

Your claims are not believable when the facts are pointed out about Islam.

reply to post by poet1b

Depends on which "huge mosque" you are talking about. Anyone can build a mosque, of any size. Could be the community banding together. Could be some particular rich individual who feels like having a mosque built. Sometimes it could be some organisation. Occasionally a mosque will feature subtle indications that it is only meant for one particular denomination. Other times, it will openly state that all denominations are welcome.

Doesn't negate anything I said earlier.

reply to post by babloyi


Yeah it does negate what you said because these huge mosque require an organization to run them. This means hiearchy to run them.

And all too often it is in these huge mosques where the radicals teach hate towards non-Muslims.

Originally posted by KarmaComa
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Agree with you, these are just a few idiots.

But the question/challenge is here, it has to be dealt with now!

Similar to France, where some people are challenging the system regarding the veil, and even more worrying, the niqab/burka/whatever you call, I'll name it the batman suit.

There are not many batman suits around, but 10 years ago there were none, and if France did not react, in 10 years there may well have been many times more, until a moment where they become a fact and the society is oblige dto accept them, which is a NO GO.
So better deal with the idiots early, to reaffirm your values, also to deter any further challenges.

Just treat it as you would any threat made to anyone else. It doesn't deserve any other kind of attention. It's a criminal issue. They just happen to be part of a make believe club of likely 3-4 people. It has nothing to do with the majority of Muslims which are moderate and quite normal.

There are actual laws already in place that would punish and deter people making any kind of threat like this. Just need to apply them when people break the law.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
This is not the first time radical Islam has shown the intention of creating beach head Islamic States within first world countries. I'm not sure how we stop the radicals from entering our countries. Often, they show their true colours once they have citizenship. I think it's time for Probationary Citizenships whereby people of this nature can be easily deported without the right to appeal. This type of flag burning and threatening behaviour should at least carry a sentence of treason.

What is the solution?

IRM

edit on Fri Sep 7 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: added name of extremist group to title

As an American, I find the notion of equating flag burning with treason to be unsettling. I know many people get up in arms about this, on both sides. But many see this as a protected form of political speech over here (or at least used to).

On the other hand, the threats that they have made should be considered both treason and terrorism, and they should all be executed or thrown in prison.

End story.

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by babloyi

 

Yeah it does negate what you said because these huge mosque require an organization to run them. This means hiearchy to run them.

And all too often it is in these huge mosques where the radicals teach hate towards non-Muslims.

Most don't require any such thing. What do you need? Someone to come in and clean it daily, and an imam (usually a regular one, often voluntary, sometimes paid a token amount). Usually more than enough for both of them is collected by passing the hat around the room once.

And I don't think you quite understood what I was talking about "hierarchy". Me comparing to popes and archbishops might have clued you off to the fact that I was referring to RELIGIOUS hierarchy. Even in the case of organisations handling upkeep of a mosque, it isn't like the sweeper is answerable to the Imam, who is answerable to the organisation's head, who tells the imam "Tell the congregation that I have commanded them to eat no McDonald's on Friday!", and they have to listen. In this situation, just as in any other, organisation has no religious authority over the congregation, the imam has no religious authority over the congregation.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Ironclad

 

Not a lot, because unlike Christianity, Islam doesn't have any hierarchical "leadership" (no equivalent to popes or archbishops, etc.), with the possible exception of SOME shia groups. You won't find a lot of muslims who would go "THIS person is my religious leader (unless they're referring to God or perhaps Muhammad)". That makes no sense in the context of Islam.

Besides, what is the point of such hypotheticals? According to many in this thread (I don't know about yourself), Islam supposedly ALREADY instructs muslims to "convert or kill" (such hogwash

), so that would mean that the millions of muslims in the US are baaaaaad muslims who don't listen to their religion, and in many cases, even join the US army (pro tip: no they aren't, actually, because their scripture makes no such demand on them).

edit on 9-9-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

You muslims are such lousy demagogues. Instead of taking it with the whole world, just stop for a moment and fight the sickness within your religion. There is plenty of room for a clean up. But that cannot be done if you don't stop first self victimizing.

Wow I go away for the weekend and the thread takes a life of it's own... lol! Thanks to everyone for your replies!

Best,
IRM

reply to post by queenannie38

Sounds good, and the offer stands your way as well.

reply to post by poet1b


I've heard there's a group who want to build a huge Mosque near the Olympic Stadium now.... and apparently this group have recruited and taught about Jihad before... i think that guy who bombed in Sweden was from one of their Mosques!!

In all honesty, there are far too many Mosques in London.... where I live, I see three different places of Worship within 400 Metre's .... is this really necessary??

reply to post by Telos

Lousy demagogue?

I'm not the one pulling on people's prejudices to "Saaaaaaaaave us from the muuuuuuslims! The muuuuuslims are coming! Haaaaalp! Kill them/Deport them before they get usssss!"

We are in a thread about an incident in Norway, where muslims supposedly threatened to take over the country or attack them. I'm not allowed to bring to attention the highly suspicious and suspect nature of the incident, that points to minimal to no muslim involvement at all?

You quoted a reply I was giving to a question Ironclad posed. If you have issue with my response, point it out, instead of nonsensical personal attacks.

And why don't YOU stop for a moment and "clean up the sickness" that is in your atheist brethren? You're responsible for all atheists, right? Just like it is my job to "clean up the sickness in my religion"? Besides, how would you know what I do during my time otherwise? When someone points out that mass forced exile, execution and nuking is wrong (never mind that it is in response to a bloated up incident that WAS a good example of media demagoguery), it isn't called "self-victimising". It is called common sense.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Which group are you talking about?
I know it is possibly a somewhat inappropriate question, but considering that London is such a huge place, if you don't mind, which area of London are you talking about? Because I can think of nowhere in London with a mosque within 400m of 2 other mosques. Besides, most of the mosques don't even look like mosques..how would you tell?
When I came down to London 2-3 years ago (I don't much care for big cities, and avoid them as much as I can ), I went to Regents Park mosque, which happened to be so overcrowded, I had to say my prayers in the basement garage, to the gods of the automobiles. There are maybe 9-10 mosques in London, you consider this too much? Nevermind the 50 some Hindu temples, the 15 Sikh temples, the 18 Synagogues (and certainly never mind the hundreds of churches).

reply to post by babloyi


I will just say I live East London... not giving out my co-ordinates on ATS!!

ok, they aren't all Mosques.... One is a big Mosque, one other is a sort of Mosque (a building used for Prayer and other stuff) and the other one is a smaller building which was set up recently... and yes they are within 400 metre's of eachother.... why so lazy? It's quite easy to walk 400 metre's to the Mosque, is it not?

The Abbey Mills Mosque, also known as the London Markaz or Masjid-e-Ilyas, is a mosque located in Stratford, east London. It had been proposed to expand it to a larger Islamic centre 7.3-hectare (18-acre). It was originally reported that the structure, had it been built, would have been the largest religious building in Britain and the largest mosque in Europe.[1] For this reason it is often informally referred to in the press as the "mega-mosque".[1]

The mosque extension would have been built by Tablighi Jamaat, a Muslim missionary movement, near the site of the London 2012 Olympic Park. Anjuman-e-Islahul Muslimeen is Tablighi Jamaat's charitable trust and has been the owner of the site since 1996.[2] The Tablighi Jamaat website devoted to the mosque places the maximum capacity at 12,000 worshipers.[3]

The plan sparked controversy for various reasons, including its initially reported size, the possible chemical contamination risk associated with the site,[4] the uncertainty as to the sources of funding that will be used by Tablighi Jamaat,[5] and alleged links between Tablighi Jamaat and Islamic terrorism.[2] Mosque officials are engaged in resolving the controversies, as well as countering the perception implied by the term "mega-mosque".[6]

Public response to the mosque and associated controversies has included on-line petitions, various public talks, debates, speeches, and websites, and even apparent threats against people opposing the mosque.[7]

The New York Times quoted Michael J. Heimbach, a deputy chief of Federal Bureau of Investigation's international terrorism section, saying that the FBI has found that the Tablighi Jamaat was used for recruiting by Al-Qaeda.[20] The group has also been referred to as "a key influence on terrorists targeting Britain" and "a common link to a string of attacks and conspiracies".[21]

The Tablighi Jamaat website clearly states that it refrains from political or controversial activities and stands for democracy and freedom.[22] The group describes itself as a non-political group and categorically rejects any links to terrorism or terrorists;[23] however, its website does make clear that it cannot take responsibility for the actions of every individual who has ever attended their mosques or services.[24]

Yoginder Sikand, who studied and wrote about the Tablighi Jamaat in South Asia, said that any fringe elements do not reflect the peacefulness of the movement.[21] Although the group has a very loose organizational structure, Sikand says that it would be "simply wrong to describe Tablighi Jamaat as a terrorist recruiting organisation."[21]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Thank you for the post. Seems as though Muslims in this area are in the third stage of Jihad; an oppressive manner of living. Short of outlawing Islam, you cannot stop this, and probationary periods will be equally useless. Once Muslims are in a position of power, whether hierarchical or by numbers, these sort of threats and encroachment become the norm. Don't let the threat of "islamophobia" keep you from the truth.

false flag people of certain genetic 4.bp.blogspot.com... Norway supports Palestinians

Originally posted by babloyi

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
There are maybe 9-10 mosques in London, you consider this too much?

You're so close. So, so close.

There are over 350.

More than any city in the Western world, outside of Turkey apparently.

mosques.muslimsinbritain.org...

reply to post by khimbar

My apologies for the confusion. I was talking about the City and perhaps Inner London, not all those dozens of boroughs of Outer London. I see now that TruthxIsxInxThexMist was talking about East London, I guess I just assumed she meant East End. "Greater London" isn't a city, so it is a bit confusing to claim that "London has more mosques than any other city in the Western World" using that as evidence.

So you think there are too many mosques in Greater London?

i don't think i'd argue with our gov if they wanted to do a surprise hitler on these extremists