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Who, in good conscience ...

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posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Who, in good conscience, can vote for any of the presidential candidates whose names will appear on an American ballot in the year of somebody’s lord, 2012. In the overall scheme of things to come, it simply doesn’t matter. Who can still believe it matters? Who can any longer buy into the illusion that their voice will be heard or counted by the unholy gang that rules by way of shunning and electronic voting chicanery machinery?

No matter who takes temporary possession of the oval office in January of 2013, the system will have won. Again. The godawful machine that relentlessly grinds into dust the hopes and dreams of everyday people every day of their highly regulated lives will have won. Again. Those who cast ballots to defend against some imagined “worse evil” will have lost no matter who is granted four years to play fast and loose with people's lives. Again.

Since 1868 Americans have been fully owned and controlled by the federal government (14th Amendment -“under the jurisdiction of …”). Chattel. Moreover, since 1871 the American people have been hoaxed into voting for presidents of the federal corporation (Act of 1871; US corporate charter registered in Delaware) who can, at the stroke of a pen, remove or undermine your right to do anything beyond the illusory ability to choose whomever you can be convinced is the lesser of two evil potential bosses.

Voters also get to choose other lesser evils, such as members of the mother corporation’s board of directors (congress), which choices are also foisted upon them by the same unholy gang that hires taxpayer paid goons to guard the inner sanctum against upstarts of any stripe. Third party candidates are shuffled into obscurity while the two chosen candidates are granted carte blanche to stand on flag bedecked stages under the glare of media lights and spew lies unabated promising health and wealth and happy-ever-after scenarios to their faithful-chattel-in waiting-masses-with-no standing. Who can deny that either one of those choices, once elected, will unfailingly write and sign off on policies and trade treaties/agreements that are beneficial only to the federal corporation, its agencies and departments and its embedded (in-bedded)multinational corporations.

Over the course of the past hundred plus years the policies (and revised policies) written by a succession of (s)elected corporate boards of directors have been detrimental in the extreme to workers and residents from all walks of life on the federal plantation. We all know this. And yet the masses still cherish the promises and honor their alleged right and responsibility to “choose” as they willfully rush to the polls believing that they’ve picked the lesser evil when even a cursory glance at recent voting records and actions proves them wrong.

Amazingly, some of the masses sometimes grudgingly admit in the aftermath that their previous choice was terrible, but that it was better than the alternative, even after all the evidence proves their choice brought nothing but more of the century long continuation of our overall devolution into tyranny and waste. More amazingly, they’ll do it all over again, which explains any eight year presidential term or thirty year repeat congressman. They are all frauds and hucksters or they would not continue to uphold the original hoax perpetrated in 1871, much less the more recent hoax of 1913 or the hundreds of other mind numbing hoaxes they have dumped into our laps in the ensuing hundred years.

Most here already know this, but in 1913, a very small group of select members of the USA.inc board of directors conspired with the moneychangers to turn the economic wellbeing of the people and the nation over to unelected private bankers. Since that time (less than a hundred years later) the dollar has lost 97% of its purchasing value. But the true currency that has always silenced the few in every generation who foresaw the coming destabilization and destruction by debt based fiat money and warned of catastrophes to come was and is the potent currency of fear, hatred and doubt - for each other, for designated “enemies” and even for ourselves.

Deliberately engendered hatred, fear and doubt is percolated among the masses via carefully crafted educational programming and mass media infotainment (mind mush for the masses) both of which turn themselves inside out to “humanize” the inhumane oligarchs and their cronies who have gained control of the world increment by tiny increment. And its all for our own good, they say, because we’re just too damned stupid to run our own affairs on a level playing field. Of course the mush makers edit out what will be the ultimate moral to the American story, they’re holding back that last chapter about the bone yards of empires and scorched earth policies for national security purposes until after the last brick falls. Then they will turn the blame on the victims, the people who voted.

But the fearful masses keep going back to the polls for more and more abuse because their schooling and media-skewed versions of what constitutes “saving us” demands that they must solemnly believe that THIS time they’re choosing that one magical guy who’ll “save us all” or at least maybe won't get us all killed, as if the oligarchs would allow any such magical guy anywhere near the oval office.

The system, the bureaucratic machine, the government apparatus itself is an inside job, a false flag of epic proportions, which is ruled by compound interest and debt. Constitution or no constitution, rule by corporate compound interest and debt is no more legitimate than rule by divine right. Not even if you ever had a chance to vote for it, which you didn’t.

The first thing to acknowledge is what hasn't ever worked in the past and to stop doing that. So put on your scariest fear mongering monster suit and tell me how voting can get us out of this mess.




posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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i'm not voting for any of the idiots.

they all seem like game show host's to me.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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I have never seen so much hatred of americans toward each other as I have seen in the past 5 - 10 years and it just keeps getting worse with each passing year. i wonder if this is what the nation was like in the years leading up to the american civil war?
The most surreal thing about all this hatred is that it is over the most trivial things, I`m just not able to comprehend or understand the reasons or motivation behind all this useless hatred, division and misdirected anger.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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In answer to the questions in your first paragraph, I answer: I can.

To respond to the "sovereign citizen"- like theories of the rest of your post, I will need a little more rest and a little more alcohol. But perhaps, some kind soul will come and help me out.

No, the government of the United States was not incorporated in Delaware in 1871. Delaware is an incorporation magnet, a huge number of corporations are technically based there. They can pick any name they choose. I seem to remember at least half a dozen with United States of America as part of their title, and none of them were founded by prominent government officials of the time.
edit on 6-9-2012 by charles1952 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Tardacus
I have never seen so much hatred of americans toward each other as I have seen in the past 5 - 10 years and it just keeps getting worse with each passing year. i wonder if this is what the nation was like in the years leading up to the american civil war?
The most surreal thing about all this hatred is that it is over the most trivial things, I`m just not able to comprehend or understand the reasons or motivation behind all this useless hatred, division and misdirected anger.


This sort of thing has always been around. The difference now is its confinded by small loud groups and generaly ignored by most of the population. Also for the most part in more recent past it has been only words and not followed by violance as it normaly has. And is hardly and Amrican thing nor even a thing of modern history.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Tardacus
 



I have never seen so much hatred of americans toward each other as I have seen in the past 5 - 10 years and it just keeps getting worse with each passing year. i wonder if this is what the nation was like in the years leading up to the american civil war?
The most surreal thing about all this hatred is that it is over the most trivial things, I`m just not able to comprehend or understand the reasons or motivation behind all this useless hatred, division and misdirected anger


You hit the nail on the head my friend!!!! Division is a military tactice and we have bought into their propoganda 100%!

United we stand, divided we fall..........................



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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I, in good conscience, honestly cannot bring myself to vote for any professional politician at all. They're all corrupt - even the ones who entered public office with a desire not to be corrupt.

Come November, however, I'll have to swallow my pride and vote for one of two - or write in another option from a pool of more, nearly as or just as corrupt options. When I think that not only does my vote not matter ( Electoral College ) but that I'm also making it based upon the lesser of two evils???

Well it's enough to make a person want to buy a tent, write a sign, and go protest something.

~Heff



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
In answer to the questions in your first paragraph, I answer: I can.

To respond to the "sovereign citizen"- like theories of the rest of your post, I will need a little more rest and a little more alcohol. But perhaps, some kind soul will come and help me out.

No, the government of the United States was not incorporated in Delaware in 1871. Delaware is an incorporation magnet, a huge number of corporations are technically based there. They can pick any name they choose. I seem to remember at least half a dozen with United States of America as part of their title, and none of them were founded by prominent government officials of the time.
edit on 6-9-2012 by charles1952 because: (no reason given)


Put down the bottle and back away slowly.

www.serendipity.li...

The Act of 1871 created municipal (corporate) government for the district of Columbia ....

American Heritage Dictionary:
Co·lum·bi·a
(kə-lŭm'bē-ə)
n.
The United States.
www.answers.com...


edit on 6-9-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 



I'll have to swallow my pride and vote for one of two - or write in another option from a pool of more, nearly as or just as corrupt options.


What does pride have to do with it? I'm sorry but it sounds more like conditioning. We've been conditioned to feel inadaquate and uncaring unless we vote.

But I do agree with you that a tent would probably be a better investment than gas to get to the polls.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 

Dear frazzle,

Try to keep me away from my bottle, will you? Not a chance. You're dealing with a desperate man.
And who wouldn't be, after reading from your first link:


Mind you, the corporation has NO jurisdiction outside of the District of Columbia.

The great number of committees and sub-committees that the Congress has created all work together like a multi-headed monster to oversee the various corporate "departments." And, you should know that every single one of these that operates outside the District of Columbia is in violation of the law.

The corporate UNITED STATES also holds ownership of all your assets, your property, and even your children. Does this sound untrue?

Capitalization — an insignificant change? Not when one is referring to the context of a legal document, it isn't.

I'm sorry, I just don't know what to say. This is so far beyond me, it's like saying "Purple Ostriches don't swim well under water that is cooler than 54.7 degrees." What can you do with something like that?

No court has ever had a ruling stand up that accepts any of those quoted ideas. The world just isn't that way.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by frazzle
 

Dear frazzle,

Try to keep me away from my bottle, will you? Not a chance. You're dealing with a desperate man.
And who wouldn't be, after reading from your first link:


Mind you, the corporation has NO jurisdiction outside of the District of Columbia.

The great number of committees and sub-committees that the Congress has created all work together like a multi-headed monster to oversee the various corporate "departments." And, you should know that every single one of these that operates outside the District of Columbia is in violation of the law.


Desperation is not conducive to clear headed thinking.


I do know jurisdiction is supposedly limited to the district. It doesn't stop their outreach into your home and life, though, does it? No federal court would hold them accountable for going outside their alleged bounds because the courts are administrative, answerable only to the corporation.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 

Dear frazzle,

Excuse me, but if no court has ever ruled against "them," and never will, isn't that pretty much the end of the discussion? We can say something is illegal, but if no court ever does, then what's the point? I know you're not talking about armed resistance, or are you?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by frazzle
 

Dear frazzle,

Excuse me, but if no court has ever ruled against "them," and never will, isn't that pretty much the end of the discussion? We can say something is illegal, but if no court ever does, then what's the point? I know you're not talking about armed resistance, or are you?

With respect,
Charles1952


Going back to your charge that I am in some way claiming to be a "sovereign citizen" ~ in no way can I make such a claim. because voters over the decades have overridden any wishes I might harbor to BE sovereign.

But of course the story of nations never really ends and that's the point: how many governments and empires over the centuries have at one time or another ruled their subjects without dispute that no longer exist? What makes you think this one will not simply collapse of its own corpulent weight like the soviet union, or succumb to hostile invasion like hundreds of others over those centuries and like we've done to so many? Or maybe the original experiment in constitutional sovereignty for the states and the people will simply erode into global rule where there are no more illusions of choice.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Tardacus
I have never seen so much hatred of americans toward each other as I have seen in the past 5 - 10 years and it just keeps getting worse with each passing year. i wonder if this is what the nation was like in the years leading up to the american civil war?
The most surreal thing about all this hatred is that it is over the most trivial things, I`m just not able to comprehend or understand the reasons or motivation behind all this useless hatred, division and misdirected anger.


You might be interested in reading this 3 page document: Psychological Warfare and Terrorism.

When you get to the last page, you might find something in the way of a possible answer to that which is hard to comprehend...because 9/11, evidently, was not the actual goal or culmination of planned terrorist activity...what is happening now is what 9/11 was designed to instigate.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Tardacus
I have never seen so much hatred of americans toward each other as I have seen in the past 5 - 10 years and it just keeps getting worse with each passing year. i wonder if this is what the nation was like in the years leading up to the american civil war?
The most surreal thing about all this hatred is that it is over the most trivial things, I`m just not able to comprehend or understand the reasons or motivation behind all this useless hatred, division and misdirected anger.


I've been thinking about what you said and with regard to elections, I can think of one thing that would unite a huge majority of the people together in a solid voting block. That's if the RNC/DNC would agree to include a "none of the above" selection on the ballots. We would have a Mr. Nobody as the runaway winner every single time. And obviously, that's why it isn't there. So why not say put it there or no one will bother. We could do that, you know.

Hatred and divisiveness aren't useless, they serve one class of people very well and that's the only class that counts in the current paradigm. If we play into that self-defeating game, just wish us good luck because what happens next is no one's fault but our own. Who doesn't know by now that party politics is the ultimate tool of social engineers? Bigger than race, bigger than religion, bigger than wealth disparity, but all of those things and more combined.

So maybe we should just ignore them all and LET THEM KNOW we think their political games are trivial and petty and put that time to better use concentrating on more important things like what we could do with the billions of dollars wasted on self aggrandizment by egomaniacs looking for a cushy job with no accountability.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by frazzle
Who, in good conscience, can vote for any of the presidential candidates whose names will appear on an American ballot in the year of somebody’s lord, 2012. In the overall scheme of things to come, it simply doesn’t matter


If it doesn't matter, why are you concerned about it?

I have often wondered this about the crowd who say, "It's all rigged anyway. It doesn't matter. So DON'T VOTE!!!"

If that's true (and I don't believe it is) then why do you care?

If the vote is rigged, why is the GOP so intently focused on limiting who gets to vote? Why all the voter ID laws? It doesn't make sense.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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Gary Johnson will be on the ballot in all states....just sayin'. I'd say he is the only choice, If I want to walk away with a clear conscience.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by frazzle
Who, in good conscience, can vote for any of the presidential candidates whose names will appear on an American ballot in the year of somebody’s lord, 2012. In the overall scheme of things to come, it simply doesn’t matter


If it doesn't matter, why are you concerned about it?

I have often wondered this about the crowd who say, "It's all rigged anyway. It doesn't matter. So DON'T VOTE!!!"

If that's true (and I don't believe it is) then why do you care?

If the vote is rigged, why is the GOP so intently focused on limiting who gets to vote? Why all the voter ID laws? It doesn't make sense.


I care for obvious reasons. First of all, because informed and engaged voters are few and far between and they must compete with the votes of those who base their choices on the shallowest of causes ~ who looks best on camera, whose promises sound the most sincere, whose name is most recognised via the teevee, straight ticket voters without a clue, etc.

Second: Informed voters must also compete with the tens of thousands of registered dead voters whose IDs are apparently accepted, at least on mail-in ballots.

Third: RNC and DNC collude to shut out third party candidates.

Fourth: Mostly I care because people who vote for evil invite that evil into my life. Yours, too. Read the link and tell me why you don't care about that?

Finally, votes don't count, those who count the vote decide everything.

www.blackboxvoting.org...



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by blood0fheroes
 



Gary Johnson will be on the ballot in all states....just sayin'. I'd say he is the only choice, If I want to walk away with a clear conscience.


I certainly have nothing against Gary Johnson as a candidate. So lets say a miracle happens and he's elected, how is he going to control or even alter "the machine" that has operated DC politics and policies for umpteen administrations already? He would be a virtual newcomer to DC politics and he'd have BOTH sides of the congressional aisle smacking him silly on every single issue, kind of like Jesse Ventura experienced as a third party governor of Minnesota. Even Barack Obama has experienced the power of that machine which threw out or bastardized, beyond recognition, every "change" he tried to offer whether you liked the ideas or not ~ just think about his promise to close Gitmo and know that couldn't have happened because the machine loves that joint and they have more of them planned for the future.

No one wishes more than I do that we could simply vote out the bad and vote in the good but that chance was eliminated once and for all a hundred years ago. Check your history, since 1913 all federal, state and local governments all operate by rules and values set in New York City and you'll never get to vote on that.




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