Eternity versus Everlasting Life

Originally posted by talkinghands
YOU WOULD THINK THAT MAYBE CESAR WOULD HAVE WANTED TO SEE Him.. this guy has raised the dead he would have been the talk of that century.. but long and behold their was no mention of this jesus..hmmm....

Why would you expect that the Roman Emperor would have any knowledge of, much less any interest in, one of dozens, if not hundreds, of "religious fanatics" in a backwater part of the Empire? It would be surprising if there WAS any mention of him in Roman records during his lifetime.

reply to post by adjensen


You mean they don't keep records of people they crucify? Of people who cause trouble for them, as a reminder of the past? That doesn't sound very organized...having records of political radicals can be very practical.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen

 

You mean they don't keep records of people they crucify? Of people who cause trouble for them, as a reminder of the past? That doesn't sound very organized...having records of political radicals can be very practical.

Well, the obvious answer would be "why would they?" since they were dead and tended to stay that way (well, there was that "one time"... lol) It wasn't like they weren't killing lots and lots of people for lots and lots of reasons, why single out some guy who, if you asked Pilate, hadn't even done anything wrong, apart from ticking off the local rabble.

The less obvious answer is that our view of things like writing is coloured by the way things are now. In the First Century, they didn't have lots of things that we take for granted, like pens, paper tablets, file cabinets and so on. Few people were even literate, so why waste precious resources on matters of no note that no one would ever likely read?

reply to post by SimonPeter

Speaking of the same old foolishness...end of the worlders will die soon enough, like everyone else; much sooner than most expect as life is short; too short and too full of suffering already, from delusional beliefs. Trying to hasten these delusions along by creating doom and gloom, is no way to live. Observing what is here and what is now moment to moment in your experience is reality, judging it, and grasping after it is a futility, as that moment has passed and never again will occur.

Grasping after the past and pondering the future one was heedless and missed the experience of living in the here and now, what was the missed moment? What did it contain? What did your eyes see? What did your nose smell? What sensation passed across your skin? What taste was in your mouth? What did you hear? One who lives such heedlessness lives as if dead already.

Whatever arises also passes, it is the nature of the world, and everything in it impermanent. The doom will give way to peace, the gloom give way to joy, peace back to doom, joy back to gloom...seeing this brings dispassion and cuts attachment and clear view of the tempest. Like every tempest calm lay the middle, realizing gloom one contemplates joy, realizing doom on contemplates peace; to attain balance. Anything else and one is engulfed and entwined, snared as an animal in a trap desperate to escape the tempest, deluded the animal ensnares itself further, one paw after the next til lastly it's mouth, fully ensnared in 5 ways death comes and carries you wherever it likes.

all of the most prominent historians of the time back then never even mentioned a man named Jesus. I'm sorry it’s a very complicated issue that has #ed up the world with a fake messianic figure. and you wonder why theologians in the Christian community leave their faith so often...

reply to post by talkinghands


It could have been political. And in those times, there was nothing to stop a political leader having you killed while you sleep.

Originally posted by talkinghands
all of the most prominent historians of the time back then never even mentioned a man named Jesus.

"Prominent historians of the time"? Who are you talking about?

Why would an historian in the time of Jesus mention him? Do you not even understand the meaning of the word "historian"? I guess that would explain a lot, though

you wonder why theologians in the Christian community leave their faith so often...

While you're at it, how about identifying these "theologians in the Christian community" who renounce their faith? I suspect that you have no clue as to what a theologian is.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Then you should seek the Lord Jesus while there is time , for you have seen the works of a greater power . Seek the truth . If you have the wisdom to see that their is a power guiding this world far beyond the powers of man , surely you will seek the truth of it . The Bible as unpopular as it is tells much .

The Bible tells much about man's propensity to believe whatever he is told. That's as far as we can ascertain from any book that persuades the masses.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Exactly right. One thing is certain: humans believe what they want to believe. And if someone wants to gain power and popularity (not necessarily in that order) they will tell the people what they want to hear. The best way to gain approval is to do what they want.

reply to post by adjensen


Everlasting life is a beautiful belief and concept. Space is infinite why cant we be, our at least our spirits!

reply to post by forcebwithu


Everlasting life is a nightmare. Endings and new beginnings is truly beautiful. New chances. Fresh starts. Creating all over again.

Living forever is like having all the money in the world. After a while, you've bought everything you can think of to buy. And then you're bored. Because there's no more challenges.

Immortality is a curse, not a blessing. Of course, there's the matter of what you do with it...but even so, there's only so much you can do by yourself. And when you live forever with generation after generation after generation of people who only want to fight your best intentions because they're greedy ***holes, it gets tiring. Extremely exhausting. And yet, there's no end to it. Because you can't die.

That's my view on it.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by forcebwithu

 

Everlasting life is a nightmare. Endings and new beginnings is truly beautiful. New chances. Fresh starts. Creating all over again.

That's what everlasting life affords you. This existence doesn't -- even if reincarnation is real, it will eventually face entropy, and that's the end of that.

Our reality has an expiration date, no matter how far into the future it is. That ain't everlasting life, that's just an extension of what we currently view as "life".

reply to post by adjensen


Everlasting life does not exclusively imply ending. Eternal existence might imply ending and beginning again, but not life. Because everlasting life excludes death by definition.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen

 

Everlasting life does not exclusively imply ending. Eternal existence might imply ending and beginning again, but not life. Because everlasting life excludes death by definition.

Congrats on getting the thread back on topic, thank you

Eternity and everlasting life are two different things. I can accept the latter, but not the former.

reply to post by adjensen


I can be annoyingly productive when I want to be. In any case, I'll contest your disagreement, with all due respect. Everlasting life excludes death, because if death is involved, then the life is not everlasting. There can't be both life and death, otherwise it's everlasting mortality. Mortality is temporary life. Everlasting implies permanent.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Everlasting implies permanent.

Sorta yeah, sorta no.

Eternity means beyond time, meaning that time has no relevance.

Everlasting means that whatever it is ("life", in the case of Christian beliefs) doesn't end. That isn't permanent, it just means that, whatever is being measured, it doesn't end, NOT that it doesn't change, which is what "permanent" would require.

reply to post by adjensen

it just means that, whatever is being measured, it doesn't end, NOT that it doesn't change, which is what "permanent" would require.

Permanent doesn't mean "no change". It means "no end". Which is how you defined 'everlasting'.

Eternity means beyond time, meaning that time has no relevance.

Time is required for change, which means 'everlasting' would be out of the question for eternity. HOWEVER! Define "ever".

ev·er/ˈevər/
Adverb:
At any time.
Used in comparisons for emphasis: "they felt better than ever before".
Synonyms:
always - aye - never - evermore

Which means at any given moment, life is present. That excludes the presence of death. Which means everlasting life is immortality. Immortality is eternal life, is it not?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen

 

it just means that, whatever is being measured, it doesn't end, NOT that it doesn't change, which is what "permanent" would require.

Permanent doesn't mean "no change". It means "no end". Which is how you defined 'everlasting'.

Allow me to introduce you to a dictionary

per·ma·nent (pûrm-nnt)
adj.
1. Lasting or remaining without essential change: "the universal human yearning for something permanent, enduring, without shadow of change" (Willa Cather).
2. Not expected to change in status, condition, or place: (Source)

Recognize the word "change" in that definition? It's kinda used the same way I used it, no?

reply to post by adjensen


So we're talking very literal permanent. That changes matters. I will give that to you.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


The world will last for at least another 1007 years according to the bible . At least . Your world might end anytime now . The bible has foretold of this time where Jesus comes back for over 2000 years . The time where those prophesies converge is soon approaching. The book of Ezekiel 38 tells of a war that is very near that starts the set of events into play . That war is brewing over in the Mid East between Iran and Israel with the help of Russia .
This war that is eminent along with the A-bomb is in the bible . Zachariah chapter 14 verse 12 tells of the tell tale effects of that bomb which is a time stamp placing that prophecy in todays time .
The Mark of the Beast prophecy in the bible could only be facilitated by the technology of today also where by the buy , sell and trade could be controlled Revelations chapter 13 verse 16, 17.
Christians do not control the time of these events . All we could do for people who are in denial is to bring it to their attention . From there it is their decision what they do about it .I would assume that you are on this topic for a reason or you would avoid it .
The actors who are pressing the issue is the Iranian leadership who wants to start global war to bring back their Mahdi . But even they have no control over what God had for them to do . They know that they will be betrayed by the Russians and not allowed to completely destroy Israel , only 2/3rds of Israel will fall to them . The Temple of God will be rebuilt and the Antichrist will set in the seat of God per 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 and cause the Abomination of Desolation per Daniel chapter 12 .
If this is too much for you to handle and process that this is coming true before your eyes then shut it off and party hard and quick because your life style is about to be impacted in a dramatic way when the Middle East explodes