UFOs - The Stanton Friedman Story

Originally posted by BO XIAN
..

On the whole, I believe he is one of the smartest, if not the smartest of the big name researchers. ...

And, he doesn't exactly suffer fools gladly or easily. He seems to delight in flushing their idiotic questions with witty one liners...

I wouldn't mind turning the tables on him. I just heard a Paracast from 2 years ago where Friedman is asked to challenge 'scientific myths', based on a new publication. He starts by explaining how global warming is related to the sun and not to greenhouse gases.

I literally felt sick afterwards. What an idiot. Mind you, it's not like the host Gene Steinberg doesn't share the dubious honors of being anti-scientific with him trying to wish reality away. It's not the first time the hosts have been entertaining the idea.

Americans use most of this worlds energy stores, yet many can't even bother to face the facts about energy and the basic physics of a closed system, like Earth and its atmosphere. It's simply physics, oh scientist Friedmann.

They both lost a major share of their credibility with me, at that instant. How can I trust their judgement on other things now? I mean, it's not like Friedmann has avoided bad judgements in the past, despite his arguably big effort for ufology. I try to give him credit for his effort, while thinking how scientific ignorance and buffoonery will kill the world..

reply to post by ScientificUAPer


Sounds like you're not exceedingly well informed about "global warming."

Friedman was correct.

The earth MAY be warming . . . man's impact on that is a fraction of the impact of other forces.

Let me guess, Jesus takes care of the weather?

Read this, people are wising up, maybe you will too:

"Now, Richard Muller, professor of physics at University of California Berkeley one of the most outspoken opponents of global warming has reversed his opinion and is convinced that prior estimates regarding the rate of warming are indeed correct and that humans are almost entirely the cause of that warming"

www.myfoxchicago.com...

Stanton Friedman is so steadfast in his opinions that I often wonder if he has another agenda. One of the consistent things about the more subtle (or clandestine) government involvement in the UFO field is that they occasionally like to use UFO "experts" as a way of manipulating interest and focus. There aren't that many UFO experts to begin with, and it doesn't hurt to have a couple on your side. If there ever was such a thing as MJ-12, or if there is a modern-day equivalent of a Working Group panel of UFO experts and popular scientists kept on hand in case aliens show up, Friedman is a very likely candidate to be on it.

I imagine -- although I have no specific proof -- that Friedman is one of those experts who does favors for military or government types in exchange for insider information about UFOs. Truth is a hard thing to come by, of course. Whether or not the information he gets (or got) is actually true is anybody's guess, but apparently Friedman has been convinced.

Friedman continues to push the ET Hypothesis very hard, in spite of much evidence that suggests it may not be the right or even the best explanation. Assuming that he's not dumb, this would tend to suggest that he has other reasons for continuing his narrow-focused mission.

You could ask why the government would want somebody pushing the ET Hypothesis so hard. I imagine that it's because it's such a convenient dead end. It's popular, easy to understand, and essentially unprovable without direct help from the "aliens." It very effectively shifts the focus away from government research and development, and even away from other possibly disturbing or frightening explanations such as uncontrolled incursions into our reality by strange (to our way of thinking) entities or dimension travelers.

In any event, I think Friedman's complete failure after decades of "research" to get even one tiny bit closer to proving his hypothesis, in spite of all the blacked-out paper waving, pretty much speaks for itself.

I think your perceptivity and observations on Stanton are top flight . . . well above average. Thanks.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Stanton Friedman is so steadfast in his opinions that I often wonder if he has another agenda.

INDEED. Sometimes it seems like he has a script that's been written or approved by the ruling oligarchy.

One of the consistent things about the more subtle (or clandestine) government involvement in the UFO field is that they occasionally like to use UFO "experts" as a way of manipulating interest and focus. There aren't that many UFO experts to begin with, and it doesn't hurt to have a couple on your side.

Absolutely indeed. Whitley S has also been rumored to be in their employ in such regards. I don't know. I like him, too. But I don't trust his perspective. Thankfully, he, at least, will acknowledge the evil or at least the potential and often FELT evil involved with the 'visitors.'

Stanton seems to pretend that there is no evil involved . . . political correctness doesn't suit him and normally he's anything but.

If there ever was such a thing as MJ-12, or if there is a modern-day equivalent of a Working Group panel of UFO experts and popular scientists kept on hand in case aliens show up, Friedman is a very likely candidate to be on it.

An interesting conjecture. Plausible. Though I doubt it somehow. I think he'd be a bit different in his tones, mannerisms, word choices etc. were that the case. He's not a model of transparency but he's also pretty . . . up front with a lot of what he's about. I don't think he'd be good enough to TOTALLY HIDE that significant a thing year in and year out.

I imagine -- although I have no specific proof -- that Friedman is one of those experts who does favors for military or government types in exchange for insider information about UFOs. Truth is a hard thing to come by, of course. Whether or not the information he gets (or got) is actually true is anybody's guess, but apparently Friedman has been convinced.

More than plausible, imho.

Though I'm skeptical that he has that much to offer at this point in time--besides helping keep tabs on the field and the groupies in it.

Technically, I think he's been mostly left in the dust.

Friedman continues to push the ET Hypothesis very hard, in spite of much evidence that suggests it may not be the right or even the best explanation. Assuming that he's not dumb, this would tend to suggest that he has other reasons for continuing his narrow-focused mission.

I AGREE ENTIRELY. He's CERTAINLY NOT dumb, at all. He's very bright, clever, witty, personable--when he wants to be . . . etc.

That's also one of the issues that sent my red flags up about his loyalties and . . . possible mission.

You could ask why the government would want somebody pushing the ET Hypothesis so hard. I imagine that it's because it's such a convenient dead end. It's popular, easy to understand, and essentially unprovable without direct help from the "aliens." It very effectively shifts the focus away from government research and development, and even away from other possibly disturbing or frightening explanations such as uncontrolled incursions into our reality by strange (to our way of thinking) entities or dimension travelers.

Of course, my take is different.

1. The global oligarchy are increasingly OVERTLY and braggingly admitedly in cahoots literally with satan toward setting up a satanic global government . . . just as Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation etc. predicted long ago. They've said so in their own words in multiple documents.

2. Whether the critters are fallen angels as Guy Malone asserts

www.alienresistance.org...

www.ancientofdays.net...

or

are true citizens of distant planets . . .

or a combination

REGARDLESS--all the ones publicized at all--are clearly in cahoots with the globalist oligarchy toward setting up said world government.

Some may end up playing attackers--bad cops and others protectors--good cops--all designed to coerce the global populace into a world government and a one world religion.

Many of their pontifications fit such goals and scenarios hand in glove.

Scientist Dr Jacques Vallee depicted as the French Scientist in Close Encounters studied the stuff for 10 years and concluded that the critters are evil and come from a spiritual dimension.

Stanton won't touch that issue except to deride it wayyyy too quickly, to my mind.

In any event, I think Friedman's complete failure after decades of "research" to get even one tiny bit closer to proving his hypothesis, in spite of all the blacked-out paper waving, pretty much speaks for itself.

I can give him some grace on that. The oligarchy only allows so much disclosure step by careflly controlled step.

Thx again.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
..
Of course, my take is different.

1. The global oligarchy are increasingly OVERTLY and braggingly admitedly in cahoots literally with satan toward setting up a satanic global government . . . just as Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation etc. predicted long ago. They've said so in their own words in multiple documents...

Trololol

As predicted by me (wuut, magic), you would have a religious 'explanation', wouldn't you?

Is that also the reason you don't want to understand simply physical scientific facts, e.g. what happens when you pump massive amounts of stored energy into a closed system?:
Deposits of energy stored in the underground -> Released into the atmosphere in the form of CO2 = storms like Sandy

I'm pretty sure Jesus would work for green energy, if he cared for humanity. Do you care?

reply to post by ScientificUAPer


OF COURSE I CARE!

It's a Biblical mandate to care for earth, animals etc.

I just believe that man's impact on global warming is a fraction of other much more impactful 'galactic' causes.

The 15,000 undersea volcanoes spewing heat into the system aren't exactly cooling things either.

The core word is 'belief', in your post.

But I'm happy that you mention vents spewing CO2, because that means you also acknowledge and consider the physics. Now consider the millions of barrels of oil and millions of tons of coal being burned off by industrious humans, and the answer is blowing in the wind.

You asked me if I was knowledgeable about global warming: Yes, I am. And I didn't arrive at that knowledge through belief. I wish the problem didn't exist, but wishes won't remove the problem. Human action willl remove the problem.

Just like the hole in the ozon: Human action is relieving the problem. Yes, it is going the right way with the hole in the ozon layer. Yet it took much, much too long to convince people back then, too, that humans impact the environment.

So if you want to help, spread the word. Any help is valuable help, and much needed.

Friedman? mm yes about right.
Sort of like meteorman?
Serve with onions and chips?
Money money...thats what I want.
Give me money.

Originally posted by ScientificUAPer
The core word is 'belief', in your post.

. . . And I didn't arrive at that knowledge through belief.

NONSENSE.

You wouldn't likely travel through an intersection on your green light unless you . . . drum roll . . .

BELIEVED

that the opposing traffic would stop at their RED LIGHT.

You can't make it through the day without basing 100's of DECISIONS AND ACTIONS

on . . .

BELIEF.

Not 100% CERTAINTY . . . but BELIEF.

You just happen, understandably,

to be utterly convinced

that YOUR BELIEFS

are superior to mine.

Whoooop-T-Do.

I think your route to that position is likely . . . flawed, at best . . . as you likely think my route to mine to likely be.

Uhh, wuut !?

Physics and chemistry is not magic. It's not a matter of belief, mate. You may be used to mentally navigating by beliefs, but that's not what got us to the moon, or created the micro-processor that allows you to access ats.

Here's an illustration of some chemical processes in connection with global warming:

www.chemistryland.com...

Read more here:
www.chemistryland.com...

PS: I think it's more important to you to protect your beliefs than to protect the Earth. Sad but true. I've seen it thousands of times, in particular on American sites: a kind of stubbornly holding on to ignorance, come rain or shine. And it's going to be pouring down in buckets, my friend, if nothing is done about the problem. So, it's up to you to decide to do the right thing. Or choose the way of untruth and disinformation.

To use your spirit-lingo, isn't Satan on the side of the oil companies? Consider how many innocent people have been murdered in the pursuit of oil. How many die everyday from carcinogenic particles from fossil energy?

Compare: How many will die building wind mills and solar panels?

Be careful you don't do Satan's bidding.

To return to the topic, I think Friedmann perhaps to some extent tells people what they want to hear. If you're a freelancer, you need to move some units of whatever you're selling.

I think a lot of Americans really want to hear that global warming is not caused by man. So they'll buy Friedmann's book about scientific myths, because it tells the people what they want to hear, - whether it's true or not.

Likewise, the MJ-12 papers contain all that which many UFO-believers want to hear.

Giving the people what they want is good salesmanship.

Whatched the vid and i like to add
to the guy at the last 35-40s..

My quote:
"If we are funding nonsens like, Religion,
then why arent we funding nonsense like
UFO research..."

In sweden we have ChurchTAX, can you belive that...
Sure i can say i dont want to pay that, but that would
end my relatives to pay for my funeral.. SOOO...

I, for one, appreciate all of the work that Stanton Friedman has done for Ufology. However, you cannot discount the possibility that he may be a disinfo agent in some way, due to his high level former ties with Engineering companies dealing with advanced military technology. He would really be putting himself in harm's way with his outspoken behavior on the topic.

I, for one, appreciate all of the work that Stanton Friedman has done for Ufology. However, you cannot discount the possibility that he may be a disinfo agent in some way, due to his high level former ties with Engineering companies dealing with advanced military technology. He would really be putting himself in harm's way with his outspoken behavior on the topic.

Originally posted by ScientificUAPer
Uhh, wuut !?

Physics and chemistry is not magic. It's not a matter of belief, mate. You may be used to mentally navigating by beliefs, but that's not what got us to the moon, or created the micro-processor that allows you to access ats.

NOPE! again.

Absolutely NONE of the chemistry, medical, physics, technological, electronic, transportation, communications progress of our era

COULD OR WOULD have reached to the first micrometer of progress

WITHOUT

first, the new and very uncertain [color=6699FF]BELIEF that such progress COULD actually be achieved.

Your hostility to belief is just not even realistic or practical or historically true in the fields you use to illustrate your hostitlity.

Denial of the place of BELIEF in reality and in progress . . . does not remove BELIEF from such realities. It merely removes doubt that such hostilitly is a ragingly willfully blind bias.

PS: I think it's more important to you to protect your beliefs than to protect the Earth. Sad but true.

HOGWASH. Your biases are screaming untruths, again.

1. my beliefs don't NEED protection. They're founded on solid bedrock and been through lots of long dark nights of the soul.

2. An inherent part of my beliefs are the God ordained protection of and wise stewardship of the earth He has thrown us into.

I've seen it thousands of times, in particular on American sites: a kind of stubbornly holding on to ignorance, come rain or shine.

Ahhhhh like the ignorance about the place of BELIEF in progress?

. . .
Or choose the way of untruth and disinformation.

According to . . . drum roll . . . the Marxist Main Stream Media; the globalist oligarchy; the tyrannical ruthless, genocidal puppet masters . . . great purveyors of TRUTH, those. /sarc

The Bible does mention that the SUN will become "7 times" hotter, IIRC, during the Great Tribulation.

There's LOTS of factors that put 'greenhouse gasses' into a very very fractional role.

However, the genocidal globalists are quite happy for folks to be all up in arms over global warming--as though the human part of the equation would make a decidedly significant difference. That part of their script helps them manage their horrors all the easier and more effectively. Besides, who knows . . . conservative use of firewood just MIGHT allow a few more insects to live a few more hours or days than they otherwise wood have lived.

To use your spirit-lingo, isn't Satan on the side of the oil companies? Consider how many innocent people have been murdered in the pursuit of oil. How many die everyday from carcinogenic particles from fossil energy?

Compare: How many will die building wind mills and solar panels?

Be careful you don't do Satan's bidding.

Certainly the genocidal globalist oligarchy has been doing satan's bidding a long time. And the treason of withholding clean energy technologies that would afford essentially free clean energy will haunt them through their eons in hell.

Yeah, the oil companies have a LOT to answer for. And, they will reap what they have sown--every last official, board member, CEO etc.

.

Stanton Friedman has researched the issues sufficiently for him to take a reasoned stance on the topic. Given the typical thoroughness of his research . . . and the methodical thoughtfulness and sharpness of his thinking, I have to respect his assertions to a significant degree.

Why he bothered with the topic, I don't know.

He does have a certain curmudgeonly aversion, hostility, even, to prissy pontificating on the part of the powers that be. I like that about him. And he can be scathing when he catches them in stupid untruths. That may have fostered his venture into the topic.

First of all, you know nothing about my beliefs. Wanna know why?

1) I don't need to flaunt anything. I don't need the holier-than-thou thing going for everyone to see.

2) My personal beliefs are not relevant to physics, chemistry etc. You don't understand that, because you've been brainwashed by religion. You bring on the 'Marxism' redneck bull#, what a laugh. What can I say? From the perspective of the surrounding world, it's scary how many Americans get their edumacation from religious freaks, and thus turn into ignorant religious freaks themselves. Not a clue about political philosophies or science. You fit the bill perfectly.

3) You think science is political? Saving the Earth is Marxist? Didn't you just agree, previously, that it is the duty of each Cristian to take care of the Earth? That doesn't really add up, so I think you're insincere.
How are you going to help the Earth, if you don't understand how to help? If you take your 'science' from the Bible? When you don't understand the nature that the creator created? Time for you to wise up.

Whatever the causes of global warming you don't ask an electrician why your plumbing is leaking so Friedman's views on that surely have no relevance.

As to using the "selling a product" tag to cast doubt on the contents of the product then firstly what information in any format can be taken as delivered without gain. Secondly what is undoubtedly true is that if all connected to Ufology carried out the degree of research Friedman has on the subjects he authors we would all be better informed.
Thirdly in relation to MJ12 surely the research carried out by Friedman only helps to inform, his views on authenticity being his conclusion only.

Why his views then lead to calls of an agenda I fail to see but would be interested in any direct evidence. If he has an agenda that comes across as narrow minded isn't that because of his areas of interest and own conclusions - in fact aren't the posts relating to examples of the same ?

reply to post by ScientificUAPer


Yet another hostile-to-belief rant

without

addressing my points much at all.

Clever.

Perhaps one day you will realize the overwhelming part BELIEF plays in your life.

I hope it's not the hard way at a stop light.

In terms of Stanton Friedman . . . he bases his beliefs on tons of doggedly persistent and thorough research.

There might be something worth modeling in that.

I personally don't think a purely Christian or scientific perspective can adequately describe the state or quality of reality suggested by some of the stranger UFO reports. The kind of reports that Stanton Friedman basically ignores or without the slightest bit proof chalks up to "technology so advanced it seems like magic to us."

In any event, looking at the state of UFO research today, I just find it more than a little sad that someone who is arguably one of the most famous UFO researchers of the past several decades (or ever) has so completely and utterly FAILED, accomplishing basically nothing.

What kind of kudos does somebody like that deserve? "Nice try?"