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Oh No! CNN, AP Break with Obama and Dems; "Fact Check" False Claims on Job Creation.

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posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012


We will not settle for stagnation.


I really can't imagine you 'settling' for anything, to be honest.
But I admire that.


The college grads are discovering that they cannot discharge their college loans in

bankruptcy court. They want a career not a job working at Starbucks.

Can't you see that?


Sure I can. I have a college education, myself.
My mother used to advise me that what I initially chose was not all that practical...something that I have a natural aptitude for and enjoy...and that I needed 'something to fall back on.'
For the first couple of years out of high school, I secretly thought her stodgy and limited in her views of my potential.
But then I got married and practicality grew more appealing to me and I soon followed her advice and changed my major to something I still had an aptitude and talent for...and loved doing, even if not quite the degree of passion I had for my original choice....the deciding factor in the end was based on the actual 'supply and demand' both locally and also nationally.
I had a job three weeks before I graduated with my associate's degree and was working for 2 months before I ever even went to take my state board exams. I was never out of a job again except by my own choice/necessity...and if I started the process right now of getting my licensing up to date, I would be working full time in less than two weeks, guaranteed.
My niece is far more accomplished and also dedicated...she graduated with a master's degree in her chosen field a few years ago, the first in the family...but before she moved to Chicago, she had just the sort of job for which she had chosen her education but she hated it and it was truly a terrible position for reasons other than the job itself...but in this small town, it was pretty much all she would ever find to match her education.
She moved to Chicago last year and is working full time but not in the particular area she would like to and trained for...I think she likes it okay but she's happy in general.

SO...anyway...what I am saying is that it matters WHAT major a person chooses when they go into college.
If they are looking to train for a career, then they probably should choose the career and then line up their education according to that.
If they aren't worried so much about practical employment, then a degree in Renaissance Studies or Women's Studies or Classical Philosophy might be the best thing ever...

I have read a lot of conflicting 'opinion' about the issue of college graduate unemployment and so far have not found many factual sources...which yours was and I appreciated that. But it does leave out something I think MUST be considered.

It isn't like we don't have our own part to do in all this no matter what our situation or our goals.
Or do you think that President Obama owes everyone exactly what they feel they deserve at this point?
edit on 9/7/2012 by queenannie38 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Okay...so...why is it a 'sad' thing overall that a certain number left the workforce?
Did they all die?
All give up?
Not one found a job?
They all just decided to quit the job search required to receive unemployment benefits...and therefore voluntarily gave up that aid, even if temporary and inadequate, in favor of doing absolutely nothing but slowly dying on their couch watching Dr. Phil?

Or what?



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 

Or, they are trolling ATS trying to justify their hopes and commitments to a failed Obama adminstration that ignored them and the promises it made them once it took the reins of power and told those who didn't follow-on, "I won. I trump you;" or to whom it threatended," We will punish our enemies."

deny ignorants

jw



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by 46ACE

All left friendly sources( no "fox"to spare any left wing sensitivities)


Well, I hope you aren't implying a need to spare MY sensitivities...I really don't have any, right, left, or otherwise. I just like to know the facts.

And so thank you for your answer and the links...I am very much clarified on what you meant which helps a lot.
I don't want to derail this thread since it is about

"Fact Check" False Claims on Job Creation.

but I don't want to not address your comments.

So I'll be brief....

October, 2001 CNN
Civilian Casualties in Afghanistan


The decade-long War in Afghanistan (2001–present) has caused the deaths of thousands of Afghan civilians directly from insurgent and foreign military action, as well as the deaths of possibly tens of thousands of Afghan civilians indirectly as a consequence of displacement, starvation, disease, exposure, lack of medical treatment, crime and lawlessness resulting from the war. The war, launched by the United States as "Operation Enduring Freedom" in 2001, began with an initial air campaign that almost immediately prompted concerns over the number of Afghan civilians being killed[1] as well as international protests. With civilian deaths from airstrikes rising again in recent years,[2] the number of Afghan civilians being killed by foreign military operations has led to mounting tension between the foreign countries and the government of Afghanistan. In May 2007, President Hamid Karzai summoned foreign military commanders to warn them of the consequences of further Afghan civilian deaths.[3] The civilian losses are a continuation of the extremely high civilian losses experienced during the Soviet Afghan war in the 1980s, and the three periods of civil war following it: 1989-1992, 1992-1996, and 1996-2001.


Human life is human life, don't you think?

What were YOUR personal sentiments on this issue...back in late 2001, early 2002?
Were you as concerned about these Afghan people as you are about the one US citizen you have informed me about?
Did you protest our invasion of Afghanistan even if just to friends and family?
Or were you partly or all for it, as many or most Americans were at the time?



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Well, that is certainly a possibility.

I think we should maybe conduct an informal survey...what do you think?



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


Human life is human life, don't you think?


Not according to State Senator Barack Obama (4X).

Look up his sole, meaningful participation in IL gov't.\\deny ignorants

jw



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by queenannie38
 

Or, they are trolling ATS trying to justify their hopes and commitments to a failed Obama adminstration that ignored them and the promises it made them once it took the reins of power and told those who didn't follow-on, "I won. I trump you;" or to whom it threatended," We will punish our enemies."

deny ignorants

jw


Their dream is fading fast. - 2 months to go -

Obama should start thinking about his legacy.

Yes, i failed but this is why.


edit on 7-9-2012 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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People who trash Obama and yet think Romney is any different, and vice versa, make me LOL.

Braying sheep, the lot of them.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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I don't see where the "false claims" come into play here.

Obama and the Dems have said that 4.5 million jobs have been created. According to the article...that is true. What they didn't say is that the 4.5 million number is not the net gain of jobs.



While that is indeed a gain of 4.5 million, it's only a net gain of 300,000 over the course of the Obama administration to date.


So where is the lie? Seems to me that they were correct in their statement, but did not mention the net gain overall. Which has been done by many presidents, regardless of party, for political purposes.

By the way, does anyone now realize that the "liberal media" argument is now impotent? These media outlets critisized Obama, therefore the NeoCons cannot claim they are in Obama's pocket! Unintended consequences?



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by queenannie38
 


Human life is human life, don't you think?


Not according to State Senator Barack Obama (4X).

Look up his sole, meaningful participation in IL gov't.\\deny ignorants

jw


Actually, I'd rather address our own collective meaningful participation in these matters...I was asking YOU about human life...not Mr. Obama...as he is not here....I'm not discussing these things with him but with YOU.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 

Unlike Mr.Obama, who believes that a 'born alive' child should be left to die, I temd to think that an infant human is a human .

jw



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 

This is the first "war" where u.s.citizens are supposedly actively "hitting for the other side".
Any time prior they would've been tried and convicted
of treason or sedition or espionage or murder.

The precedent (and it is a new precedent) is scary;i.e. the u.s.govt claims it can "legally" assassinate anybody on the face of the earth. on the "say so" of a relatively few men..Including u.s.citizens who grant the govt its power by consent.

Not that it's any of anybodies business;but in a nutshell: What do I
think?????????????
I think: "WAR" is "WAR";

It's a regrettable; sometimes necessary; nasty; brutal business
not to be gone into lightly.

That said:

IF you DO go in to fight. You go in to WIN.
Once we decided to go into Fallujah we should've used our airpower and artillery; not gone knocking on each door. we saved alot of civilians by sorting them out by hand but lost alot more u.s.soldiers because of it.

"Whip their azzes and their hearts and minds will follow."

added: Yes I AM placing u.s soldiers lives above the local civilians; say what you will:They didn't ask to be there.

If you won't let us win; Don't unload the troop carriers !!!!!!!!!.


You Don't unleash the military at the drop of a hat: War is supposed to be "Mean and nasty" so it is avoided at all costs. Not clinically clean flying drone missions from Nevada.
Its too easy.for the suits then. But reports show even the drone pilots; ( home for supper every night) are suffering emotionally from the killing.



I'm a retired AF veteran of gulf war one( and the "cold war" years).. Not an infantry ground pounder (my ass wasn't on the line except for the first couple of weeks of nightly scud attacks in Riyadh; until the British SAS units & U.S.special forces Along with F15 "(b) eagles;RAF&RSAF Tornados; and other special operations units silenced the mobile launchers).

And; I don't blame the Iraqis one bit for trying to push us back onto our helicopters and out of their cities and villages in 2003. Nor the Afghanis today.Though I'm sure we did some good somewhere over there. Saddam and his Sons were sexually abusive brutal dictators.

I feel deeply for the men and women who faithfully followed orders and got chewed up. I was no fan of G.W.on the lead up to gulf war II;or the subsequent patriot acts and military comissions act. and the build up of the The whole dhs bureaucracy.

I hate that our guys were put into a meat grinder( I believe "for oil").

IMho; We need to come home. (from around the globe).

in 2008 I actually thought "well it's over, he won... as long as he is in there" Maybe this "Barack"guy will reverse the encroachment of the the security state and change all this stuff around for the better.. He may have actually won me over.
Then I woke up...



edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


Given the foregoing, how do you justify “negotiation” with the Taliban”



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by 46ACE
 


Given the foregoing, how do you justify “negotiation” with the Taliban”

Not much to go on there. Who's"justifying" negotiating with the taliban???????.
Just mho rattling off the cuff:;
We need to leave that ragged azz country locked with in its stone age borders to its warlords.

Any threat of a weapon of mass destruction in their hands brings an immediate sh*t storm of high tech ordinance raining down.
Leaving big smoking craters where a threat once raised its grizzled head.

(Perhaps civilians would be inclined to separate themselves from the"troublemakers" or risk becoming "collateral damage").

You don't use the military for "nation building" they are good at destroying things and killing people. Used "judiciously" that has its place.

No poor infantry"legs"or "arty's" need to get shot up by their own afghani trainees.

Cia and spec ops run their cells and nets and have a "field day". We just present ourselves in the open as targets in fixed based locations. Guerrilla warfare is the prescription for
large; fixed slow moving armies.

So what's your opinion????????????//
edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


I just spent too much time trying to trace this off-topic side discussion back to some place where I could make sense of it...and then I realized that because you were replying to a question I asked 46ACE about something he said in regard to Anwar Al-Awlaki...I thought he might have been implying bin Laden..but somehow...I ended up in that same discussion with you rather than 46ACE.

And while it is a good topic for discussion...it is not the topic of THIS discussion...it's not even really related except for the present most popular theme of Obama-bashing. Which is fine...but let's keep it straight what we are bashing him on rather than turning any thread that mentions him into a general bash-fest.

I might start a thread on this because it is pretty important...but for now, I just wanted to let you two know that I'm not going to reply anymore in this thread but it isn't because I have no more to say on it neither am I not interested in what you think about it.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


If I start a thread about this, will you cut and paste this reply to it? So it can be discussed? We are totally off topic on the fact check/job creation thing but I don't want to ignore your time and effort spent on what it is a intelligent reply with substance we can discuss...something too rare lately.




posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by 46ACE
 


If I start a thread about this, will you cut and paste this reply to it? So it can be discussed? We are totally off topic on the fact check/job creation thing but I don't want to ignore your time and effort spent on what it is a intelligent reply with substance we can discuss...something too rare lately.



we ARE way off topic: my bad; Sorry; I'm about ready for another break off the forums.
I've got some reading to do.Perhaps reassess a few things. All this political infighting and name calling is disagreeable and taxing. I'm about ready for another short sabbatical from the 'net..

Feel free to create your thread.

Thanks for being polite: But I don't think you need me to play "off of". I'm quite sure it'll take on a life of it's own.
See ya 'round..

edit on 10-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


so...what they said was true...4.5 million private sector jobs were created. they didn't say anything about the jobs lost, how would anyone stop that..."oh, please, business A...we'll give you government money to keep people employed at your business, so don't fire anyone"... i guess that would be your answer.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 

Let's assume for a moment that the 4.5 million number is true. Can we at least agree that it is terribly, intentionally, misleading?

If government trucks bring 20 tons of food to a starving village, then pick up 19 tons of it, should they really say to the starving, complaining villagers "Well, we brought you 20 tons of food." That's the kind of line that I would be completely ashamed to utter.

Net gain in jobs from the time Obama took office is roughly 300,000. Our population has grown by millions. I would think, that out of decency alone, no one in the current administration would ever mention adding jobs.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by jdub297
 


so...what they said was true...4.5 million private sector jobs were created. they didn't say anything about the jobs lost, how would anyone stop that..."oh, please, business A...we'll give you government money to keep people employed at your business, so don't fire anyone"... i guess that would be your answer.


Somewhere I've started a thread on the release of the movie adaptation of Ayn rands"Atlas shrugged" Part II
In the trailer( and book):the govt takes over the private economy; puts into place drastic emergency measures including: freezing wages;andall hiring and firing. Workers WILL show up for their jobs.period.

For the extent of the"emergency"Sounds like fun huh.."Welcome to the hotel California: you can checkout anytime you like but you can never leave!"The real danger in central planning...

edit on 10-9-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)




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