5 found shot in French Alps

theres alot of misinformation in this thread.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


An interesting spin on it, but why would he be a target?

I do wonder if the elder girl had earlier been kidnapped and that that was why she was outside of the car, whereas everyone else was inside a locked vehicle.

I guess though that at present we simply do not have enough facts to reach any conclusion. Hopefully we'll find out more in due course. Very strange case though.

The BBC just reported the possible family feud theory and tried to balance the news reel by reporting the brothers claim of no dispute. Trial by media I think because the Areva, aerospace, satellite and software company links have not been reported in the mainstream media.

My thoughts are UK special services found out about the Areva employee and Iraqi engineer's planned rendezvous. David Cameron got all hyped up and ordered the hit.

Despite all this talk about shoddy professionals, one or more of the SAS or other British operatives got all emotional when attempting to kill the girl and his mate thought he finished her off without a head shot.

Face it. Even professional killers have to start somewhere and some are not into killing kids even if most are nonchalant.

When it's a matter of UK national security (Iran (Shi-a Iraqi) getting nuclear industry contacts with Areva) there is no moral high ground.

One last possibility is that UK shared the intelligence with MOSAD. But I'm not really feeling that because MOSAD would have killed the little girls as they are much more experienced killers.......

Originally posted by blamethegreys
I choose to believe this is a total Jason Bourne....errr James Bond scenario going on. Aerial photography firm, classified info, selling to terrorists/foreign agents. MI5 dispatches a 00 agent, cleans house + witnesses. The tipping point was that the prosecutors were barred from the scene for twelve hours. Cleaners at work, anyone?

Bang on. This is definitely an agency hit. Possible collateral damage with innocents involved. Too many passports involved to be any ordinary shooting. Got to have international intrigue involved here. Chances are that sensitive spy photos were being transported across the border from Britain to France to sell to some terrorist organization, and they were intercepted by secret service agents who neutralized the threats. Guy on the bike was probably the pick up guy, who was supposed to retrieve the package from the guy in the car. Guy in the car took family on "vacation" to avoid suspicions at the border. Agents most likely followed him, and struck as soon as the package was transferred to the bike courier, retrieving the sensitive package, terminating the hostiles, and vanishing from the scene leaving no trace. It's a professional hit.

Proves to show gun violence happens everywhere.

Before these people point fingers they need to take care of their homeland first.

Just hypothesizing but if the info were hearing is true what are the chances that an Iraqi man (& family) working or has worked in the nuclear industry gets executed on a lonely French country road. Then apparently a French man haphazardly cycles past, who coincidentally also works in the nuclear industry & happens to be on the same stretch of a country road witnesses said shooting & is shot also hmm. May be they both had arranged to meet & were killed or killed elsewhere then planted there to look like worst car jacking in French history. Or maybe stooges were killed in their places & both men were kidnapped/went willingly given new lives working for some nefarious state or organization. Its a guessing game or maybe the start of a crappy spy novel! . Seriously though I doubt we will get anymore of the true story as its probably hastily being buried or blurred as per usual.

Originally posted by Procharmo
The BBC just reported the possible family feud theory and tried to balance the news reel by reporting the brothers claim of no dispute. Trial by media I think because the Areva, aerospace, satellite and software company links have not been reported in the mainstream media.

Conspiracy geeks never care about reality do they. If you look at the known facts, these things all turn out to be irrelvant. Though I daresay on the same basis, you could be drawn into a similar wed. Watch out!

Meanwhile, I find such silly suggestions somewhat disrespectful.

When you die, we will all jump to assumptions and none of us will wait for the facts. Seems you think that's okay?

Originally posted by ItCantBeTrue
Just hypothesizing but if the info were hearing is true what are the chances that an Iraqi man (& family) working or has worked in the nuclear industry

Who came to Britain as a young child and has never had any involvement with the nuclear industry

Then apparently a French man haphazardly cycles past, who coincidentally also works in the nuclear industry

Although he doesn't

See how easily silly conspiracies start? First ignore the facts, second make up false facts, third link them together and before you know it you've made yourself look like a complete fool.

An update from the AP, see link below. I found this interesting.

The 4-year-old said she didn't recognize the third victim inside the car, an older woman, who was confirmed by the prosecutor to be a Swedish national. The investigation is looking into establishing the woman's identity, and whether or not she is related to the al Hilli family.

Still cant wait to find out what the neighbor has to say!

Family feud eyed in grisly killings in French Alps

Originally posted by Sinsear
Still cant wait to find out what the neighbor has to say!

I'm more interested in what the older girl has to say. She had another surgery today (as planned) and the police will talk to her as soon as the doctors allow.

I think it's odd that the little girl doesn't know who the older woman is. They've talked to the brother of the deceased father, did he not know who the older woman is either? This story truly is very curious indeed.

Originally posted by Bennogob
Good evening

I just wanted to add that here in France tonight , medias gave details on professional activities for this british guy who was a top aeronautical engineer :

He was at the top of 3 different companies : The first one deal with nano technologies , the second one with air surveillance and aerial photography and the last one with conception and installation of satellite dishes...

I think it may be very interesting details for the rest of the investigation...

Where are you getting this info from?

All I've heard from the media is he worked as contracted mechanical design engineer for SSTL.. Nothing about being the top of 3 companies or involved in nanotech. The cynic in me thinks this is wild exaggeration for the sake of drama.

Originally posted by UKMinarchist
Does anyone know how ATS handles/responds to D-Notices?

D-notices only apply to UK media and they are not legally binding. It is simply a request by the Government for the media to stay stum. They are not obliged, in any way, to adhere to it, but do so out of courtesy and a gentlemans agreement.

Originally posted by SilverWraith
I think it's odd that the little girl doesn't know who the older woman is. They've talked to the brother of the deceased father, did he not know who the older woman is either? This story truly is very curious indeed.

edit on 7-9-2012 by SilverWraith because: spelling

Not really. My youngest never recognises his Granddad or Grandma because he doesn't see them very often. If this woman was Mr al-Hilli's mother-in-law, as has been believed and she lived in Sweden, maybe the youngest has not seen her before?

Sometimes, ATS, you can get a little jumpy over the silliest things. Why not wait until more facts come out before jumping to conclusions?

I don't believe I'm jumping to any conclusions, I just said I thought it was odd. I have a son the same age as the little girl and he knows his grandfather even though he's only seen him twice ( because he lives overseas). So your point of view is a bit different than mine. I would think that since they have the older womans passport and know the names of the deceased, that it would be fairly easy to figure out what her relationship is to the family if she were indeed a relative. If she had no ID and was a "jane doe" and there was no family to be found, I could understand the mystery, but this isn't the case. They know who she is, where she lives, and they're in contact with family members who would surely know who the mother in law was, even if only by name, and the little girl says she doesn't know her either. Throw in the fact that the police have now changed their story to say that she was "at first thought" to be the mother in law. To me, this seems a bit curious., that's all.

reply to post by SilverWraith


There are reports that a Swedish and Iraqi passport were found but no confirmation of ID. However the French authorities are yet to formally ID as awaiting DNA tests.

reply to post by AndyMayhew


The French bicycle guy DID work in he nuclear industry.
He was working for a company (Cezus, see links in previous posts) which produces zirconium, which is used to sheath uranium fuel in nuclear plants.
He was a not a nuclear reactor chief engineer, but he did work in the nuclear industry.

Another interesting point is that indeed no one has been allowed next to the car for several hours, due to the Scientific Police (the French NCSI?) looking for clues.
This has been mentioned in the MSM, French people are mad about that fact, because it led to the girl inside the car not to be free for several hours! Because of that she had to stay hidden under her dead mum's legs for hours.
This opens the door to more conspiracy: did they clean up the scene?

reply to post by KarmaComa


Additional news: 25 cartridges (the sheath of the bullet) have been found at the murder scene, some were inside the car.
Investigators believe that the killer(s) was/were using semi-automatic rifles, from the number of cartridges and their position.
The article mentions that these rifles usually contain 15 bullets-packs, so the investigators are leaning towards a two-killer hypothesis.

Investigators do not want to mention which calibre was used by the killer(s).

It seems French police is actively searching a motorcycle and a SUV, which have been seen and may have a link with the murder.

fr.news.yahoo.com...

Personal note: they do not want to say which calibre was used...isn't it a bit fishy? From the calibre you can know which type of weapon, and start a list of potential weapons, which would show what kind of person was the killer, and could also point towards specific agencies..
I may be over imaginative, but the investigators are maintaining and entertaining the conspiracy theory!

reply to post by SilverWraith


maybe this was a kidnap exchange that went wrong , since the young girl was outside the car and the old lady was inside .

if this was a family dispute and the killers had hold of the young girl it could be that the old lady was connected to the kidnappers family and had been taken in order to make an exchange and some thing went wrong.

i am not sure that it was a government hit and if it was it was very sloppy .
the family was staying at a camp site and we all know that deaths by carbon dioxide due to faulty heaters is not unheard of .

reply to post by tom.farnhill


Interesting points.

Seems possible the girl climbed from the window (the back windows looked opened), even though the door was locked, or could have been outside before.

I also think there is something odd that they were smartly dressed rather than casual, they weren't planning on going walking around the countryside, so maybe planned dinner at a restaurant or something. Though there is then the fact there was a large amount of travel bags. Most people would leave their things at the campsite in their caravan.

Also odd are the chances of all these people being there at the same time, the Iraqi wheeler dealer (his multi named companies in Swindon. AMS 1087, 1088, SHTech, AMS Accounts etc, this is classic 'front') who was under surveillance from MI5, a guy who works in Zirconium used in the nuclear industry, and then the retired RAF officer.

The guy also told his neighbour about fears for his family in Iraq, indicating something bigger happening than just a family fued about inheritance.