5 found shot in French Alps

Originally posted by squarehead666
So let me get this straight.....We have an Iraqi nuclear physicist and a French supplier of nuclear materiels shot dead together under rather mysterious circumstances and nobody finds this in any way suspicious?

We do not have a "French supplier of nuclear materials", we have a French who worked in a company that is part of a bigger company related to nuclear materials (I think).

Does anybody know what the white ski like elements of the roof rack on that BMW are? One of them is missing and there are some interesting marks in the dust around the other.....Might they be hollow? Somewhere you could hide documents perhaps?

Now that's a great question.

Originally posted by ArMaP
If the gunman was outside why get out of the car? And why only that girl did it? And what happened first, was she shot first and hit after or was it the other way? If she was hit on the head first then it means that she was close to the attacker, if she was shot first why not shoot her again and only hit hear?

Kids do stupid things? In fact, people do stupid things in stressful situations. The adults may have either been taking by surprise and had no time to react, then the girl makes a dash for it, or simply thought they were in no danger until it was too late, then she made a break for it.

She doesn't appear to have actually been "shot in the head", but actually in the shoulder and "beaten around the head" enough to induce a fracture. She is making a full recovery, so your speculating on the position of the shooter based on erroneous information. In my mind, I can see her making a dash, she gets caught and pistol whipped, then shot to finish her off, just not very well.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I don't understand why you added that part, I only said that the car's wheels were still spinning, and that can only happen, as far as I know if something was pressing the accelerator.

Just applying logic to the publicly available information, rather than speculating with wild theories, such as claiming the Iraqi was things he wasn't.. I know you didn't, but there is plenty of wild and unsubstantiated nonsense in this thread.

Originally posted by squarehead666
So let me get this straight.....We have an Iraqi nuclear physicist and a French supplier of nuclear materiels shot dead together under rather mysterious circumstances and nobody finds this in any way suspicious?

C'mon, you're just making stuff up now. He wasn't an "Iraqi nuclear physicist" in the slightest. He was a mechanical engineer working for an aerospace firm.

Originally posted by stumason
Kids do stupid things? In fact, people do stupid things in stressful situations. The adults may have either been taking by surprise and had no time to react, then the girl makes a dash for it, or simply thought they were in no danger until it was too late, then she made a break for it.

Looking at the images of the reconstruction of the crime, it looks like most of the shells were found on the right side of the car, near the back door (could that mean that the target was the wife?), so that's the position further from the place where the girl supposedly was (the front left), so I guess it's possible that the girl tried to get away on her own.

She doesn't appear to have actually been "shot in the head", but actually in the shoulder and "beaten around the head" enough to induce a fracture.

That's what I meant by "hit", as "hit with the gun", not as in "hit with a bullet".

Just applying logic to the publicly available information, rather than speculating with wild theories, such as claiming the Iraqi was things he wasn't.. I know you didn't, but there is plenty of wild and unsubstantiated nonsense in this thread.

OK, I understand it now.

Key question not examined is whether car could have been parked in the shade and obscured to the gunman as he shot the cyclist. Clearly the car occupants were shot because they were trying to drive away which suggests cyclist shot first.
This whole thing dosen't make sense. A lot of basic information is not being disclosed and when it is it seems to be a red herring.

Originally posted by keltro
Key question not examined is whether car could have been parked in the shade and obscured to the gunman as he shot the cyclist.

I think it's possible that the car was in a position where someone coming from the one direction would not see it at first, judging by this image.


It was possible that someone coming from the road on the left would not see the car, but that doesn't explain why the car had the motor still working and, judging by the next image, the wheels were still turning, as they dug the ground.



From all the reconstitutions I have seen, these were the positions of the girl and the cyclist.



That would mean that the girl was more or less in the yellow circled area and the cyclist in the red circle in the image below.

Clearly the car occupants were shot because they were trying to drive away which suggests cyclist shot first.

That's not clear to me. If the car had the wheels still spinning and the cyclist was on that position, the car was too close to the cyclist to have made some manoeuvre that put it in that place, wheels spinning. Also, it looks like the car was sent backwards into the parking place, so I think the only reason for that would have been a car blocking the road in front of them, so the only escape was back from where they came from.

On the other hand, I think it's possible for the French cyclist to have done the same thing as the British cyclist: arriving there and seeing the car parked, wheels spinning, went to the conductor side and found the killer on that side of the car (I think most cartridges were found on the right side of the car).

This whole thing dosen't make sense. A lot of basic information is not being disclosed and when it is it seems to be a red herring.

I'm used to that, in Portugal, cases being investigated should not have information made public (some people are against that), only the investigators, the prosecutors and the directly involved (victims and criminals) have the right to that information.

One thing is certain, we don't have enough information.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by squarehead666
So let me get this straight.....We have an Iraqi nuclear physicist and a French supplier of nuclear materiels shot dead together under rather mysterious circumstances and nobody finds this in any way suspicious?

C'mon, you're just making stuff up now. He wasn't an "Iraqi nuclear physicist" in the slightest. He was a mechanical engineer working for an aerospace firm.

You are quite right, I got a wee bit carried away there.....However it appears that his engineeing expertise may have been focussed in areas related to containment of nuclear materials, he was apparently working on a particle accellerator was he not?

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by squarehead666
So let me get this straight.....We have an Iraqi nuclear physicist and a French supplier of nuclear materiels shot dead together under rather mysterious circumstances and nobody finds this in any way suspicious?

We do not have a "French supplier of nuclear materials", we have a French who worked in a company that is part of a bigger company related to nuclear materials (I think).

Once again I may be guilty of a touch of embellishment, however as I understand it the company in question is under investigation for possible breach of nuclear sanctions on Iran.

One thing's for sure.....This ain't no family feud!

Originally posted by squarehead666
However it appears that his engineeing expertise may have been focussed in areas related to containment of nuclear materials, he was apparently working on a particle accellerator was he not?

He worked for a satellite company, specialising in small and inexpensive satellites. Where does this obsession with nuclear come from?

Regards

Here's an article from the Daily Mirror (I know, I know! ).....It may not be a matter of who he worked for, rather where he worked at:

www.mirror.co.uk...

There was talk of a particle accellerator somewhere too (No, not the 'National Enquirer'! ).....If I can find it again I'll post a link.

But like I said....Does anyone really think this was a family squabble?

reply to post by squarehead666


As far as I know, particle accelerators can only make very small quantities of radioactive materials, as they are made to work at the particle level, not at an industrial level.

It looks like that Daily Mirror article is doing what the British media does best in cases like this, when someone British is the victim of a crime outside the UK: find the best excuse for the crime that does not include a British person(s) as the criminal.

reply to post by ArMaP

It looks like that Daily Mirror article is doing what the British media does best in cases like this, when someone British is the victim of a crime outside the UK: find the best excuse for the crime that does not include a British person(s) as the criminal.

As far as I am aware there is nothing to suggest that any of the victims had any criminal conncetions or that the person responsible was British so I really fail to see how you can come to that conclusion in this instance.

Of course there will be much to this case that isn't public knowledge yet, but the almost complete lack of official information recently suggests to me that the police are at something of a loss to explain this slaughter - as such any speculation on the nationality of the perpetrator(s) is simply guesswork.

reply to post by Freeborn


I say that because of how the British press (and some British ATS members) prefer to point to the French cyclist as the target instead of someone from the killed family, how they point to an international connection (with Iran being the most common target) but do not point to the possibility of some shady connections from the British (or even the Swedish) victims that ended in the killing.

But I confess that I was influenced by the Madeleine McCann case, during which the British media pointed almost everywhere but (mostly) avoided the parents.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Of course there will be much to this case that isn't public knowledge yet, but the almost complete lack of official information recently suggests to me that the police are at something of a loss to explain this slaughter - as such any speculation on the nationality of the perpetrator(s) is simply guesswork.

In Portugal they do not publish information about ongoing investigations, only the directly involved are informed.

reply to post by ArMaP


Whilst understandable it is nothing but speculation, and will remain so until the real facts are determined - and as time goes by that looks increasingly unlikely.

Personally, I suspect, and I stress that it's nothing more than off the cuff speculation, that it was either some inexplicable random killing or a professional hit carried out some unknown reason.

But I confess that I was influenced by the Madeleine McCann case, during which the British media pointed almost everywhere but (mostly) avoided the parents.

Yes, whilst I accept that the person responsible for that abduction bears the sole blame etc for that horrendous crime it does seem somewhat taboo to offer any sort of criticism of the parents.

In Portugal they do not publish information about ongoing investigations, only the directly involved are informed.

Unless it would have any bearing on solving the case or in matters of public interest and safety that's how it should be.

reply to post by ArMaP


That's not quite right ArMap, it's well known that the British tabloid media go through a whole gamut of rationale, that includes sympathetics, and then the 'what ifs' and then the demonising, the McCann's were ultimately treated no different. These papers, and the people in them are akin to/no the same as, the stuff you see on the ground after a horse has passed.

Originally posted by smurfy
That's not quite right ArMap, it's well known that the British tabloid media go through a whole gamut of rationale, that includes sympathetics, and then the 'what ifs' and then the demonising, the McCann's were ultimately treated no different.

Maybe the McCanns were treated like that in the end, but the idea I got was that the first thing that type of media did was to find someone that was not British.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by smurfy
That's not quite right ArMap, it's well known that the British tabloid media go through a whole gamut of rationale, that includes sympathetics, and then the 'what ifs' and then the demonising, the McCann's were ultimately treated no different.

Maybe the McCanns were treated like that in the end, but the idea I got was that the first thing that type of media did was to find someone that was not British.

All part and parcel of the same thing, it is Jingoism with a small j or big J all according to what might fit in any story, not particular to the UK. These people don't really give a toss and are corrupt because they are so insecure and anything goes, even if it is untrue.

Apparently it was all just 'a random act of murder' (according to BBC News 24).....That's OK then, nothing to see here, move along now!

Suspects probably include Santa-Claus, The Tooth-Fairy and a number of Honest Politicians.

reply to post by squarehead666


I just saw that "Random Killing " verdict as well. It's the MSM's way of saying we know what you know but can't say it either!

reply to post by squarehead666


That's really a strange way of ending an article.

Is that something usual in BBC articles, adding what looks like their own opinion at the end?

Another recent update

www.independent.co.uk... .html

The motive for the murders, which happened while the family were on a camping holiday, has so far been a mystery to French police.

However, detectives now appear to have linked the murders with that of Xavier Baligant, 29, who was shot four times at a rest area off the A13 near Nancy in July. His sons, Dylan, five, and Jordan, seven, were in the car at the time, and were left unharmed.

I still think it very suspicious that both men killed were involved in the nuclear industry and the possibilities this could involve, such as in the trading of substances that could have consequences, such as polonium 210

Professor Dudley Goodhead, Medical Research Council Radiation and Genome Stability Unit, said: "To poison someone much larger amounts are required and this would have to be man-made, perhaps from particle accelerator or a nuclear reactor." Where would someone obtain polonium-210 from? Although it occurs naturally in the environment, acquiring enough of it to kill would require individuals with expertise and connections. It would also need sophisticated lab facilities - and access to a nuclear reactor. Alternatively, it could have been obtained from a commercial supplier. Polonium-210 can either be extracted from rocks containing radioactive uranium or separated chemically from the substance radium-226. Production of polonium from radium-226 would need sophisticated lab facilities because the latter substance produces dangerous levels of penetrating radiation.

seems like everybody lost interest in this strange case... that is sad... something is really fishy, but nobody cares anymore, same goes for james holmes unfortunately...