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Why is Antarctica & other locations NOT mined for (CLEAN) Methane Hydrates ENERGY?

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posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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[color=cyan]If there ARE large Methane deposits present on this planet like those hypothesized to be in Antarctica under the ice sheets, why is there not a large scale mining process going on to USE these greenhouse gases instead of other fossil fuels? Which in turn should alleviate the pressure build up that may be occurring NOW due to CLIMATE CHANGE warming up the methane hydrate?

methane hydrate: a solid, ice-like substance in which each methane molecule is trapped in a cage of water.

A cutaway view of Antarctica shows its southern ice sheet

[color=cyan]Antarctica

[color=cyan]Antarctica

[color=cyan]Antarctica



Swamp gas trapped under miles of Antarctic ice, a chemical souvenir of that continent's warmer days, may someday escape to warm the planet again, an international team of researchers report in Nature this week.

The researchers suggest that microbes isolated from the rest of the world since the ice closed over them, some 35 million years ago, have kept busy digesting organic matter and making methane—a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

If global warming causes the ice sheets to retreat in the coming decades or centuries, the researchers warn, some of the methane could belch into the atmosphere, amplifying the warming.


news.nationalgeographic.com...

[color=cyan] I guess what I am saying is from the article you see there seems to be a worry of a large scale emission process (BELCH) related to the planet warming (climate change) So I was wondering then why is not this planet using these potential methane energy fields of CLEAN energy now INSTEAD OF AWAITING A BELCHING PROCESS? Which could effect the overall pressure build up and escape/release of the methane gas?

[color=cyan]There are already existing facilities/digesters designs that CAN be placed to make this happen. Unlike the anaerobic and other mixers seen below, the hydrate warmers would WARM the frozen methane hydrates sheets, capture the PRESSURE and GAS. Using the pressure build up for turbine energy and the gas for another process like heating ect.. Or some kind of TAP process would be piped into a gas chamber and the gasses collected.



At least as far back as the 10th century BC, methane gas captured from animal waste was used for heating bath water in Assyria. Through the years, additional energy sources have been developed to heat our water. But the use of methane gas captured from animal waste (biogas) continues, and is now occurring on a scale that the ancients could only have imagined. In Nebraska, with thousands of livestock operations, the potential use of manure for energy production and other value-added products is a natural extension of the operations and a possible new source of revenue.

The Technology
The process that creates biogas is called anaerobic digestion. In its simplest form, an anaerobic digester biologically breaks down animal waste and captures the methane gas that is a natural by-product of the process. The biogas is then burned off or used for purposes such as fuel to power an engine that produces electricity and heat. The anaerobic digestion process also creates effluent. Effluent and the solid fiber derived from it can be converted into other products including liquid fertilizer for land application, compost, and bedding for animals. Other benefits include:
A renewable source of energy (manure);
Reduced water and air pollution;
Reduced odor (neighbor friendly); and
Reduced pathogens, making manure handling safer.


www.deq.state.ne.us...

[color=cyan]some anaerobic digesters below



[color=cyan] actual on land/farm version




[color=cyan]So I was wondering WHY is this ENERGY not being used/mined on a massive scale? Especially if there are politics related to ENERGY (oil) and where it is produced @ This methane energy could be a good way to pull away from other fossil fuel consumption/usage and as well may produce energy in a cleaner manner. Not to mention garbage can be converted as well as animal parts & waste from slaughter houses or road kill recovery and sewage. Just seems like its being ignored or BACK BURNERED so I wanted some ATS feedback as to why?

Is it too hard to mine?
too costly?
just not enough interested investors in this technology?
will effect current energy sector in a negative way?
Whats the issue here?

ATS members what is the hold up on getting this cleaner energy into the WORLD. I can see methane hydrate sheets kept frozen and transported GLOBALLY from one direction and WASTE digesters producing from another direction. So areas where there my be issues keeping the hydrates frozen may have the anaerobic digesters to manage animal waste and parts as well as garbage. In turn making energy for many @ a low cost.
Thanks in advance if anyone can help clarify WHY this energy is not used on a larger scale.


Is the planet REALLY ignoring the "potential" trapped in these frozen hydrates and if not whats going on why so slow to get the process going?




posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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Also VOSTOK and the deposits there 1 wonders COULD a civilization live beneath an icesheet with a methane fuel source to keep warm. Although if this said civilization wanted to remain hidden it would be hard to hide the heat signature 1 would think.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Antarctica is easy. There are international treaties involved that are so strict, even deodorant coming onto the Ice is regulated and they are 100% dead serious. The mere suggestion of mining on the ice would probably get you thrown into the sea. They can be real touchy on that, I gather.

It's not that I disagree though. Antarctica is a MASSIVE land mass and the only one that can be called 'untouched'. It's an interesting thing to consider if we ever get technology to explore without totally destroying.

Right now, if those gates were opened.....even a little...I think the whole continent would be raped..fought over..then raped some more.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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Because we might piss off the inner Earth peoples! aha.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Antarctica is easy. There are international treaties involved that are so strict, even deodorant coming onto the Ice is regulated and they are 100% dead serious. The mere suggestion of mining on the ice would probably get you thrown into the sea. They can be real touchy on that, I gather.

It's not that I disagree though. Antarctica is a MASSIVE land mass and the only one that can be called 'untouched'. It's an interesting thing to consider if we ever get technology to explore without totally destroying.

Right now, if those gates were opened.....even a little...I think the whole continent would be raped..fought over..then raped some more.


Correct. They are (righfully) very strict about pollution of any type in the Antarctic. And long my that stay like that.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Cost Vs Energy produced is what kills methane/methanol based power production.

Maybe one day, it will become viable to produce base-load power from simple hydro-carbon chains, but for the moment, it is still the stuff of laboratories.

If you are interested in the subject of sustainable power production, I recommend having a look at "Plasma gasification" as well as solar power production using heat exchangers(as opposed to photo-voltaics).



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Antarctica is easy. There are international treaties involved that are so strict, even deodorant coming onto the Ice is regulated and they are 100% dead serious. The mere suggestion of mining on the ice would probably get you thrown into the sea. They can be real touchy on that, I gather.

If the mining was them just collected hydrate sheets from underneath the ICE sheets or from the sea floor, do you think this still would be an issue?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It's not that I disagree though. Antarctica is a MASSIVE land mass and the only one that can be called 'untouched'. It's an interesting thing to consider if we ever get technology to explore without totally destroying.

Right now, if those gates were opened.....even a little...I think the whole continent would be raped..fought over..then raped some more.


And that's why it should be a global effort to provide CLEAN energy for all so all nations would get an even cut eliminating the rape process. I thought it would be as simple as going in cutting some large sheets of hydrate and remove them it seems more would accumulate over time especially if near a large area of fossil material being converted. I thought this energy would be a good start in a cleaner direction. Why cannot the nations do it RIGHT and FAIR distribute the energy?


Originally posted by Sinny
Because we might piss off the inner Earth peoples! aha.


Sinny
well they COULD just offer to sell it then. Believe it or not I considered this as well
good 1
and makes sense.


Originally posted by 3danimator

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Antarctica is easy. There are international treaties involved that are so strict, even deodorant coming onto the Ice is regulated and they are 100% dead serious. The mere suggestion of mining on the ice would probably get you thrown into the sea. They can be real touchy on that, I gather.

It's not that I disagree though. Antarctica is a MASSIVE land mass and the only one that can be called 'untouched'. It's an interesting thing to consider if we ever get technology to explore without totally destroying.

Right now, if those gates were opened.....even a little...I think the whole continent would be raped..fought over..then raped some more.


Correct. They are (righfully) very strict about pollution of any type in the Antarctic. And long my that stay like that.


I can TOTALLY understand the pollution factor AND RESPECT
I just thought there WAS a way to do it in a clean manner. Seems there is a REAL influence in that region, interesting.


Originally posted by OccamAssassin
Cost Vs Energy produced is what kills methane/methanol based power production.

Maybe one day, it will become viable to produce base-load power from simple hydro-carbon chains, but for the moment, it is still the stuff of laboratories.


Ok this makes it a little more clear the pollution factor and the COST. It amazes me how $$$ slows down the advancement of this sphere. ALL would benefit from a cleaner energy even future generations yet a money tag is slowing down the opportunity. SAD but 1 knows how bussiness here goes and this also makes sense.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
If you are interested in the subject of sustainable power production, I recommend having a look at "Plasma gasification" as well as solar power production using heat exchangers(as opposed to photo-voltaics).


Thanks this is something I will look into as well OccamAssassin


Thank you all so far for contributing and helping answer my question. I just feel there has got to be a clean non contamination process available to extract the hydrate sheets and leave the area CLEAN of contamination. Keeping in mind I may be naive with EA*RTHs technology as of now.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


I have to ask...why do you spell Earth like you do?



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by 3danimator
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


I have to ask...why do you spell Earth like you do?



LOL lets just say I got RESPECT for EA* or LORD ENKI and write his name in EA*RTH like that EA lord ENKI name (*) representing the STAR they travel on and RTH just the rest of EA*RTH



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 



I just feel there has got to be a clean non contamination process available to extract the hydrate sheets and leave the area CLEAN of contamination.


Plasma gasification would be the technology to check out. It uses garbage as a fuel source and produces a syn-gas(I think it was called) which can be used to produce power on site or plumbed/piped/shipped to a power generation facility. Considering the islands of garbage floating in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, it would be feasible to consider using this resource to produce power whilst simultaneously cleaning up the worlds oceans.

I wonder if plastic rubbish in international waters could be the next hot commodity. Such a scheme could rightly/morally sell carbon offsets twice if one were careful to separate the power production and garbage disposal business'.
edit on 5/9/2012 by OccamAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 



I just feel there has got to be a clean non contamination process available to extract the hydrate sheets and leave the area CLEAN of contamination.


Plasma gasification would be the technology to check out. It uses garbage as a fuel source and produces a syn-gas(I think it was called) which can be used to produce power on site or plumed/piped/shipped to a power generation facility. Considering the islands of garbage floating in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, it would be feasible to consider using this resource to produce power whilst simultaneously cleaning up the worlds oceans.


This Is the type of thinking I am leaning towards with the OP: use existing waste to make energy from @ the same time cleaning up the planet. I cannot understand why those in charge of the energy sector are not looking into using this type of approach to clean the planet. I also considered using the plastic island as an artificial island for polar bears in areas where there is lack of ice sheet land. good Idea


Originally posted by OccamAssassin
I wonder if plastic rubbish in international waters could be the next hot commodity. Such a scheme could rightly/morally sell carbon offsets twice if one were careful to separate the power production and garbage disposal business'.


It seems all that is needed would be a good argument showing how $$$ can be made from the clean up and power process. Odd how things get overlooked or ignored if they do not generate massive capital. If I had 30 billion myself I would spend approx. 20 bill trying to make ways to clean up the place where future generations may lay their heads. Thanks again OccamAssassin for coming thru and sharing some supporitng data that WOULD help.

NAMASTE*******
edit on 9/5/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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Methane is not a clean energy source. When you burn it, to make the energy, you produce carbon dioxide, a green house gas. Not to mention the infrastructure investment needed to get at it, makes it unfeasible.

clean energy...

solar, wind, water, hydrogen and nuclear(to a minor extent)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 

Generally speaking, I agree with your points. I've chosen Antarctica as my topic for a major speech, 2 essay's and a graphics project at school. You could say the great white continent is a real pet project of mine. Of course, wasteland is relative and only what is seen from above.

The problems...and there really are a couple, even on drilling off shore, are major. First, the international community and Antarctic authorities under the treaty are absolute and without any wiggle room in even the slightest sense. Show some way the Japanese Whalers contaminate the waters by so much as peeing over the railing while too close to the Ice ..and almost that literal, even they'd get thrown out of the region. lol...

The second one..is a DOOZY. After the discovery of Lake Vostok, it seems they are seriously exploring the possibility that it's just one HUGE lake of a far more complex subterranean water system with lakes streams and rivers connected. So.... Imagine Deep Water Horizon happening even a fair distance off the coast line of a place where currents can circle for years. They know nothing but guesses and a sense of FAR more than we understand in science happening there. Imagine finding out the hard way that there is a water intake...or many of them....scattered around the edges of the Ice. It sounds incredible, but so is a warm water lake (relatively) like Vostok.


I think the Antarctic is the most exciting and promising place left on Earth to explore...when we have the tech to do it without destroying the place of course..




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