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Originally posted by roguetechie
So let me get this straight you're willing to use what is probably at least a thousand dollar motor to generate milliwatts? which you quite frankly won't be able to do for even an extended period of time because the magnets will be ran down by their configuration and or the machine will reach equilibrium and lock up like magnet motors do. But either way even in the BEST CASE scenario you're talking HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS worth of generators to produce even 1 watt of power.
A thousand dollars? The magnets can be had on ebay for maybe $20. The rest can be scrounged. Did you see it reaching equilibrium in the video?
Magnets run down over what a few hundred years?
People have been trying to build over-unity machines for centries and you figured out all that was needed was a minor modification, and you barely need to spend any money?
Originally posted by winnar
A thousand dollars? The magnets can be had on ebay for maybe $20. The rest can be scrounged. Did you see it reaching equilibrium in the video? Magnets run down over what a few hundred years?
Willing to use? All I am doing is pointing out that as its built with a minor modification it becomes an over-unity machine. Nothing more, nothing less. Please do learn to read. Or bother to read.
Originally posted by roguetechie
Second off buy 20 dollars worth of magnets and you'll get 20 dollars worth of magnets... spend a few hundred bucks on neodymium magnets and you might accomplish something.
You can pitch a fit and stomp your feet all you want it isn't going to change the fact that this magnet motor design in particular won't work the way you want it to.
Originally posted by OccamAssassin
This is why I wonder if your just trolling because this has been explained to you several times over the course of this thread and you never seem to pick up on it or you are purposefully glossing over it.
The life of a magnet is directly proportional to the work done by the magnetic field.
If you sit the magnet in a draw and don't use it.....it will last for 100's of years.
Originally posted by john_bmth
Perpetual motion could easily be proven without running for ever. Output >= input, simple as that. To date, nothing has been demonstrated as even coming close to, let alone over, unity.
Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by winnar
a manufactured magnet its not a free energy source
So I ever said perpetual motion or did I say over-unity? It doesnt matter if it runs for minutes or for years If you put 0 in and get even a tiny bit out its what? There you go throwing up straw men again. Sad really.
So what's a draw? And why didnt you answer about the youtube video and your 'degree' being equated?
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Wow you never saw the duck?
Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Originally posted by rickymouse
What that needs is one of those rocking wood/plastic ducks that worked off a cup of water to move the magnet in and out. Does anyone remember those bobblehead ducks from the sixties?
And what moves the duck? Or is it magic?
It's probably why so many kids think perpetual motion is possible, because that's how it looks:
The Drinking Bird – Scientific Toy for the Ages
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to take my house off the grid with an army of bobbing ducks, but it's a cool toy!
He looks a little ridiculous, a fuzzy headed bird with a top hat and a big bottom. Yet in the 55 years since it was patented generations of children (not to mention those who refer to themselves as grownups) have laughed at his bobbling, dipping and nodding. Yet behind the chortles and chuckles there is some serious science – this drinking bird seems to violate the laws of physics.
Seeming to do something and doing something are, of course, entirely different things and the drinking bird, also known as the dipping, dippy or even bobble bird is not, as some have suggested, a perpetual motion machine. The bird ducks, takes a sip of water and bobs right back upright, rocking gently. However, instead of becoming still the rocking becomes progressively wilder until he dips down and takes another drink. This seems to go on and on – perpetually as it were.
The amount of time the machine operates for is irrelevant. The whole concept is to have an output greater than the input.
The bird doesn't require any mechanical energy to move at first, if that's what you meant. It begins operation as a heat engine:
Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
I think my point was missed, I was at work so maybe I was less clear than I should have been. The duck requires energy to move at first, then self sustains itself as a heat engine.
The initial state of the system is a bird with a wet head oriented vertically with an initial oscillation on its pivot.
The process operates as follows:
The water evaporates from the felt on the head.
Evaporation lowers the temperature of the glass head (heat of vaporization).
The temperature decrease causes some of the dichloromethane vapor in the head to condense.
The lower temperature and condensation together cause the pressure to drop in the head (by the ideal gas law).
The higher vapor pressure in the warmer base pushes the liquid up the neck.
As the liquid rises, the bird becomes top heavy and tips over.
When the bird tips over, the bottom end of the neck tube rises above the surface of the liquid.
A bubble of warm vapor rises up the tube through this gap, displacing liquid as it goes.
Liquid flows back to the bottom bulb (the toy is designed so that when it has tipped over the neck's tilt allows this), and pressure equalizes between the top and bottom bulbs
The weight of the liquid in the bottom bulb restores the bird to its vertical position
The liquid in the bottom bulb is heated by ambient air, which is at a temperature slightly higher than the temperature of the bird's head.
Why? As long as you keep it supplied with water and as long as the sun shines it will keep going, with maybe a little maintenance like compensating for wear on the pivots. I couldn't make it work in the desert, but anywhere with access to a sufficient supply of rainwater or a mountain stream would be enough to keep the necessary water level maintained. I think I could make one that would basically run until the earth gets so hot the oceans dry up. Since all humans on Earth will be dead by that time what happens after that is somewhat moot to Earthlings. However it would require large water storage tanks and the economics don't make much sense as discussed below.
It will stop eventually.
You could extract energy from the drinking bird, but of course you are correct that there's a limit to how much energy you can get out, and the wiki provides this information. The evaporative heat flux from the bird's head is 0.5W, but due to ineffeciencies, the power that can be extracted is only 1 microwatt. (Pretty inefficient, eh?) Since I need about 1000 watts to run my home, I'd need a billion drinking birds to make that much energy, and I don't think I can fit that many in my house, but even if I did, there would be nowhere left for me to live.
It only moves for as long as it does because it does almost no "work", it needs to be light. You don't understand the operation of the drinking bird. While it does help to make it light, this has nothing to do with how long it moves. So making a duck that did actual "work" would prevent the duck from moving. I imagine it would have to be a very powerful heat engine to move a heavy magnet, which would require a lot of energy.