Does this video show a working self propelled magnetic engine?

by putting coils on the cammed magnet your cam would have to work harder which still means more torque needed from the engine. I don't know why people think you can just slap a coil somewhere and have it not effect the system. the magnet going through the coil will always create a drag.

But it was a good try though. Maybe they could use piezoelectric generators to harness the vibration of the machine without taking too much energy. But then you'd be building thousand dollar motors to generate a half watt of power. Not very efficient at all and after you throw in the cost of remagnetizing your magnets every so often really not worth it.

Now what I"m going to say next has nothing to do with magnetic motors but I do believe it's a more fruitful area of research, and I'd love to see ATS get behind a project to try and replicate it. There is a guy named LLoyd Tanner who came up with an idea for a totally novel boiler that uses wood at an incredibly frugal 2 Oak 4x4's every couple of days. He's calculated that out of this you can get several horsepower worth of steam while only paying in half a horsepower for the motor to run the friction apparatus. While it's not as glamorous as totally free energy it could make people completely independent of the grid at a very low cost in fuel.

I personally am slowly (achingly slowly) acquiring the bits and pieces I need to build a quarter scale demonstration model. BUt I'd love to see other people get on this idea as well.... Here is the thread I made about it awhile back LLoyd Tanner Friction Boiler
The best part is unlike these dodgy magnet guys LLoyd Tanner has given us all the information we need to replicate his device. There's no secret proprietary sauce or etc. He just wants to see people get energy independence.

You don't need a perpetual motion machine to make more energy out of a machine than it takes to run it. It can be dependant on earths magnetic fields and still produce power. It may not be cost effective to build these things on huge scale for delivery to a lot of homes and businesses but can possibly be used to supply some power to a home. Look at the woodstove fans that run by differences of temperature. They work pretty good. They even make it so you can take power off a campfire. These heat generators are sold in other countries where there is a need, of course they aren't readily available here though, they compete with the power companies.

Originally posted by roguetechie
by putting coils on the cammed magnet your cam would have to work harder which still means more torque needed from the engine. I don't know why people think you can just slap a coil somewhere and have it not effect the system. the magnet going through the coil will always create a drag.



But it was a good try though.

That cammed magnet is being physically pushed up and then gravity dropped. I dont know how much drag you think a tiny coil on each side would make but I sincerely doubt its enough to stop the operation of the "motor".

reply to post by winnar

Since you won't listen to people who do know this stuff, the only thing you can do to convince us, is try it yourself.

You can measure it so it doesn't have to be guesswork. The measurement in this video is crude, but you get the idea:

Electromagnetic induction


Of course if you make the coil smaller, it will slow it down less, but the smaller coil also has less output.You don't get something for nothing.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by winnar

 

Since you won't listen to people who do know this stuff, the only thing you can do to convince us, is try it yourself.

You can measure it so it doesn't have to be guesswork. The measurement in this video is crude, but you get the idea:

Electromagnetic induction

Of course if you make the coil smaller, it will slow it down less, but the smaller coil also has less output.You don't get something for nothing.

Right. And how much electronics schooling do you have?

Granted it wouldnt be much. But the simple up down up down of the rod magnet through two coils would do the trick I think.

Oh right I did say it wouldnt be much didnt I? So two flat coils at the poles of the cam magnet which happens to not be the spinning part of the motor and would not drag it magnetically would provide a microcurrent of free electricity not counting the energy to make the device would it not? Therefore it would be an overunity device. Zero energy in, a tiny bit out. I wont build one to show you, if I could borrow that one it would be easy enough to make make two coils with a few turns each. How much schooling was that you said you had in electronics? And you are assuming I have none correct? You know, I should listen to the people who know? Like Einstein, the Wright brothers, your father telling your mother that pulling out was 100% foolproof? Not an insult there, just an illustration to illuminate my point. What exactly was that video supposed to be showing me anyway? That induction works? Duh.

I am pretty sure there was a Japanese companies building electrical versions of these motors some years back anyway. Only instead of a bar magnet on a cam it used a tiny bit of electricity to push the magnets past the barrier whereupon the permanent magnets would take over again and spin the shaft the other 99%. They were getting something like 80% efficiency. Too bad you werent there to tell them it cant be done.

reply to post by winnar


Ok so if you use a coil that small you're talking milliamps at best of power every revolution. for a device that probably costs well over a thousand dollars in parts to build. Even if the magnets don't wear down for 10 years you'd still be paying several dollars per amp hour of power.

And it's funny that you're attacking me when I've stated right in my posts that I think given the right engineering and cutting edge technology they just might be able to build something workable.

On top of that I listed a perfectly viable alternative that we know for sure works and can be built today. And unlike the PMM guys LLoyd Tanner will answer your emailed questions happily because he wants to seee machines built not protect proprietary technology.

How about this You take your PMM route and I'll take my friction boiler route and we'll both see where wer're at 2 years from now. I will bet you that I will be much closer to a working device than you are

Originally posted by roguetechie
reply to post by winnar

 

Ok so if you use a coil that small you're talking milliamps at best of power every revolution. for a device that probably costs well over a thousand dollars in parts to build. Even if the magnets don't wear down for 10 years you'd still be paying several dollars per amp hour of power.

And it's funny that you're attacking me when I've stated right in my posts that I think given the right engineering and cutting edge technology they just might be able to build something workable.

On top of that I listed a perfectly viable alternative that we know for sure works and can be built today. And unlike the PMM guys LLoyd Tanner will answer your emailed questions happily because he wants to seee machines built not protect proprietary technology.

How about this You take your PMM route and I'll take my friction boiler route and we'll both see where wer're at 2 years from now. I will bet you that I will be much closer to a working device than you are

Oh sure lets burn hardwood which takes how long to grow and claim we have some kind of almost working device and meanwhile disparage the device that already does work, just no one thought of where to put the coil where it wont cause drag until now. I dont care about Lloyd Tanner or a friction boiler. I dont even care that much about the permanent magnetic motor other than to prove what everyone is saying cant be done, like little parrots while not even understanding the science, is basically already done. Milliamps or maybe even microamps, doesnt matter. It could be an overunity device. Running with 0 input, giving a small output.

Originally posted by winnar
Right. And how much electronics schooling do you have?

Enough. but I'm not the topic of this thread and I notice you didn't even respond to the topic of my post, which is that it can be measured, and if it's measurable, it has an effect.

reply to post by winnar

I dont even care that much about the permanent magnetic motor other than to prove what everyone is saying cant be done, like little parrots while not even understanding the science, is basically already done.

Understanding Maxwell's equations is paramount to understanding why the PMM( or PMD as it is referred to in science texts) can NOT work using magnetism.

Maybe a little study on Maxwell's theories on magnetic flux will give you the knowledge to make an educated extrapolation as to why magnetism can never be a source or unlimited energy.

Or you could just shove your head in the sand and continue ranting on a subject that you know nothing about.

Your call.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by winnar
Right. And how much electronics schooling do you have?

Enough. but I'm not the topic of this thread and I notice you didn't even respond to the topic of my post, which is that it can be measured, and if it's measurable, it has an effect.

I never denied it having an effect. Whether it would slow the rotor enough to stop the motor is the question. I doubt it will. Its not a constant drag. This motor is already pushing against the extra friction of the cam itself plus the normal air and rotor friction. The tiny bit added by adding two small coils on the cam magnet would be nil. This will produce electricity with zero input. Now if you tried to put coils all around the rotor part and had the drag of all those magnets on all those diff coils it would be different. Understanding the concept is one thing. Understanding application is another. It's sad to watch so many people say its impossible because they think they understand the science is sad. This thing is already working. I merely suggested a place to put the coils that would have the least effect. Granted it would also produce the least electricity, but it still would.

Wow if it can be measured it has an effect. Something I never denied. Something so profound. Will the measurable effect stop the motor? No. This is an overunity device with two small coils at the points I specified. Your almost immeasurable force will not stop the motor from turning, nor from producing an output with 0 input. But what that cant happen, so defend your bias with things that do not matter.

Sorry but no matter what argument you make at this point, no matter the amount of schooling you have (which I really doubt is 'enough'), and no matter what laws of physics you think this breaks it will work.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by winnar

 

I dont even care that much about the permanent magnetic motor other than to prove what everyone is saying cant be done, like little parrots while not even understanding the science, is basically already done.

Understanding Maxwell's equations is paramount to understanding why the PMM( or PMD as it is referred to in science texts) can NOT work using magnetism.

Maybe a little study on Maxwell's theories on magnetic flux will give you the knowledge to make an educated extrapolation as to why magnetism can never be a source or unlimited energy.

Or you could just shove your head in the sand and continue ranting on a subject that you know nothing about.

Your call.

edit on 9/9/2012 by OccamAssassin because: (no reason given)

Maybe you should study your own name and use it in this case. There is a video showing this works. Two small coils placed where I say will provide the least drag. Use the simplest explanation. Where did I say this could be used as a source of unlimited energy? Stop throwing up straw men. It only shows you lost the debate.

reply to post by winnar

Maybe you should study your own name and use it in this case. There is a video showing this works. Two small coils placed where I say will provide the least drag. Use the simplest explanation. Where did I say this could be used as a source of unlimited energy? Stop throwing up straw men. It only shows you lost the debate.

Your right......How dare I question the validity of a youtube video when all I've got to back up my statement is mathematics?


After all...we know that Maxwell was a member of the Skull & Bones, Masons & Illuminati.....

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by winnar

 

Maybe you should study your own name and use it in this case. There is a video showing this works. Two small coils placed where I say will provide the least drag. Use the simplest explanation. Where did I say this could be used as a source of unlimited energy? Stop throwing up straw men. It only shows you lost the debate.

Your right......How dare I question the validity of a youtube video when all I've got to back up my statement is mathematics?


After all...we know that Maxwell was a member of the Skull & Bones, Masons & Illuminati.....

Awww. That all you got? You realize there is not one video of this technique but hundreds, maybe thousands? Its nice that you know Maxwells name. Try knowing more than that.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

Understanding Maxwell's equations is paramount to understanding why the PMM( or PMD as it is referred to in science texts) can NOT work using magnetism.

I still think it's possible depending on how the unit is designed. I don't believe anyone even Maxwell could have thought of every possible unconventional design that could ever be. I think the design that doesn't break any laws and makes this work just hasn't been thought of yet.

Why do I believe this? Because nature is efficient. Nature takes care of it's own. Electromagnetic induction is real and does work to produce electricity. It only makes sense that nature would have some way of using EI that's not wasteful.

Even electric companies use generators using electromagnetic induction to supply us with electricity - But they Must turn the rotor around the stator. They have to use some other form of power like steam or fossil fuels to do this. This seems awfully wasteful to me. They have to first produce energy to then create energy. That is silly. americanhistory.si.edu...

Click here for more information.

If you need to apply energy to start the machine, its not true perpetual motion. Such a machine can not theoretically exist based on our current laws of physics.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

FWIW.....I think I will trust my own experiences(as well as Maxwell's equations) with magnetism as apposed to what your "fairy tales" say what magnetism can achieve.

Guess you are not as familiar with Maxwells equations as you think. Thanks for that link.

While Maxwell's equations are consistent within special and general relativity, there are some quantum mechanical situations in which Maxwell's equations are significantly inaccurate: including extremely strong fields (see Euler–Heisenberg Lagrangian) and extremely short distances (see vacuum polarization). Moreover, various phenomena occur in the world even though Maxwell's equations predicts them to be impossible, such as "nonclassical light" and quantum entanglement of electromagnetic fields (see quantum optics). Finally, any phenomenon involving individual photons, such as the photoelectric effect, Planck's law, the Duane–Hunt law, single-photon light detectors, etc., would be difficult or impossible to explain if Maxwell's equations were exactly true, as Maxwell's equations do not involve photons. Maxwell's equations are usually an extremely accurate approximation to the more accurate theory of quantum electrodynamics.

You might as well be referencing Newtonian physics. How much schooling do you have in electronics? And lets not count your time reading wikipedia.

reply to post by winnar

You might as well be referencing Newtonian physics. How much schooling do you have in electronics? And lets not count your time reading wikipedia.

Well, if you had actually studied this subject at Uni....then you would know that Newtonian physics is relevant because we are dealing with the concept of work.

How much schooling do I have in electronics?

Does an engineering degree count?

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by winnar

 

You might as well be referencing Newtonian physics. How much schooling do you have in electronics? And lets not count your time reading wikipedia.

Well, if you had actually studied this subject at Uni....then you would know that Newtonian physics is relevant because we are dealing with the concept of work.

How much schooling do I have in electronics?

Does an engineering degree count?

If you just say you do it counts about as much as a youtube video. Right?