Democratic National Convention Discussion

Originally posted by pajoly

Originally posted by thepresident
reply to post by jibeho

 

Don't play cute, you know exactly what I'm talking about

Obama, is an illegal alien, communist, muslim, who is going to become a dictator,
who destroyed the economy in 2008 , invented street drugs and started both wars.

---deleted -- I missed the sarcasm

edit on 5-9-2012 by pajoly because: (no reason given)

What is so funny is that such a thing is even possible.

I literally wrote the most bat $hit crazy thing I could think of and it sounded like...
Our friends here.

Originally posted by thepresident

Originally posted by pajoly

Originally posted by thepresident
reply to post by jibeho

 

Don't play cute, you know exactly what I'm talking about

Obama, is an illegal alien, communist, muslim, who is going to become a dictator,
who destroyed the economy in 2008 , invented street drugs and started both wars.

---deleted -- I missed the sarcasm

edit on 5-9-2012 by pajoly because: (no reason given)

What is so funny is that such a thing is even possible.

I literally wrote the most bat $hit crazy thing I could think of and it sounded like...
Our friends here.

Good point and dead on. That is scary isn't i?

its what they don't tell you that is the problem.

like they want to have more jobs but the catch is they will be union jobs.

they want green jobs just look what that turned into with Solyndra's $530 million boondoggle or the SunPower's $1.2 billion boondoggle.

and the list goes on
Evergreen Solar of Massachusetts- received $3 million from the federal government (and $21 million from the state); loss of 800 jobs; moving operations to CHINA.

Beacon Power of Massachusetts- received $43 million from the federal government; 125 jobs lost.

Eastern Energy of New York- received $17.1 million from the federal government; 500 jobs lost; a subsidiary of AES.

Nevada Geothermal of Nevada- received $98.5 million from the federal government; 25 jobs lost; this company is owned by a Canadian company.

SunPower of California- received $1.5 billion from the federal government; 1,560 jobs lost.

First Solar of Arizona- received $3 billion from the federal government; 2,100 jobs lost.

Babcock & Brown- received $178 million from the federal government; an estimated 1,000 jobs lost; this is an Australian equity investment company involved in US energy projects.

Ener1 of New York- received $118 million from the federal government; 600 jobs lost; manufacturer of electric car batteries.

Amonix of Nevada- received $5.9 million from the federal government; 200 jobs lost.

Fisker Automotive- received $339 million from the federal government to build electric cars…IN FINLAND!

Abound Solar of Colorado- received $400 million from the federal government; 125 jobs lost.

Solar Trust of America of California- received $2.1 billion from the federal government; unknown number of jobs lost.

A123 Systems of Michigan- received $279 million from the federal government ( plus $125 million from the state under Governor Granholm); 300 jobs lost; manufacturer of batteries for electric cars.

Willard and Kelsey Solar Group- received $6 million from the federal government; unknown number of jobs lost; owner of Amonix (see above).

Johnson Controls- received $299 million from the federal government to manufacture batteries for electric cars; after announcing plans to build two plants in the US, they opted to build one domestically and the other in HUNGARY; estimated 250 jobs lost.

Schneider Electric- received $86 million from the federal government; estimated 200 jobs lost.

Bright Source of California- received $1.66 billion from the federal government; unknown number of jobs lost.

ECOtality of California- received $126.2 million dollars from the federal government; tasked with building a system of recharging stations for electric cars; basically a offering a product with very few customers; unknown number of jobs lost.

Raser Technologies of Utah- received $33 million from the federal government; failed geothermal projects; unknown number of jobs lost.

reply to post by ANNED


I'm interested in looking into the information you posted, do you have any links that would be helpful so I don't have to go company by company


Finding some, article on DOE grants from factcheck.org...

According to Bloomberg News, even with the losses from Solyndra, the default rate for the DOE’s loans to solar, wind and bio-energy projects is less than 3.6 percent, less than a third of what the White House anticipated. So Romney is using the same “lemon-picking” strategies that critics of his Bain years use — choosing a few sour specifics to give a misleading picture of the larger reality. And he’s straining facts and misquoting a leading investigator as well.

another www.politifact.com...

www.freedomworks.org...

The U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform conducted a report of the DOE’s handling of their loan guarantee program and discovered disastrous outcomes.

You're definitely on to something. I wasn't aware of how extensive this problem was. Any other links would be appreciated.

Speaking of Solyndra. A key figure ran for the exit as soon as they saw ABC NEWS at the DNC.
Red Carpet for Solyndra Figure at Democratic Convention By BRIAN ROSS and MATTHEW MOSK
abcnews.go.com...

Originally posted by ANNED
its what they don't tell you that is the problem.

like they want to have more jobs but the catch is they will be union jobs.

they want green jobs just look what that turned into with Solyndra's $530 million boondoggle or the SunPower's $1.2 billion boondoggle.

and the list goes on
Evergreen Solar of Massachusetts- received $3 million from the federal government (and $21 million from the state); loss of 800 jobs; moving operations to CHINA.

Beacon Power of Massachusetts- received $43 million from the federal government; 125 jobs lost.

Eastern Energy of New York- received $17.1 million from the federal government; 500 jobs lost; a subsidiary of AES.

Nevada Geothermal of Nevada- received $98.5 million from the federal government; 25 jobs lost; this company is owned by a Canadian company.

SunPower of California- received $1.5 billion from the federal government; 1,560 jobs lost.

First Solar of Arizona- received $3 billion from the federal government; 2,100 jobs lost.

Babcock & Brown- received $178 million from the federal government; an estimated 1,000 jobs lost; this is an Australian equity investment company involved in US energy projects.

Ener1 of New York- received $118 million from the federal government; 600 jobs lost; manufacturer of electric car batteries.

Amonix of Nevada- received $5.9 million from the federal government; 200 jobs lost.

Fisker Automotive- received $339 million from the federal government to build electric cars…IN FINLAND!

Abound Solar of Colorado- received $400 million from the federal government; 125 jobs lost.

Solar Trust of America of California- received $2.1 billion from the federal government; unknown number of jobs lost.

A123 Systems of Michigan- received $279 million from the federal government ( plus $125 million from the state under Governor Granholm); 300 jobs lost; manufacturer of batteries for electric cars.

Willard and Kelsey Solar Group- received $6 million from the federal government; unknown number of jobs lost; owner of Amonix (see above).

Johnson Controls- received $299 million from the federal government to manufacture batteries for electric cars; after announcing plans to build two plants in the US, they opted to build one domestically and the other in HUNGARY; estimated 250 jobs lost.

Schneider Electric- received $86 million from the federal government; estimated 200 jobs lost.

Bright Source of California- received $1.66 billion from the federal government; unknown number of jobs lost.

ECOtality of California- received $126.2 million dollars from the federal government; tasked with building a system of recharging stations for electric cars; basically a offering a product with very few customers; unknown number of jobs lost.

Raser Technologies of Utah- received $33 million from the federal government; failed geothermal projects; unknown number of jobs lost.

reply to post by ANNED


Beacon Power of Massachusetts
On 30 October 2011, the company filed for bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code in the United States bankruptcy court in Delaware.[11][12] As part of the bankruptcy court proceedings, Beacon Power agreed on November 18 to sell its Stephentown facility to repay the DOE loan.

As of 6 February 2012, Rockland Capital, a private equity firm, bought the plant and most of the company's other assets for $30.5 million.[13] Rockland Capital intends to rehire most of staff and to provide the capital to build a second 20MW plant in Pennsylvania
Nevada Geothermal of Nevada
The Department of Energy issued Nevada Geothermal Power Company Inc. a $98.5 million loan guarantee by John Hancock Financial Services to the Nevada Geothermal Power Company Inc. (NGP). The loan guarantee will help build the Blue Mountain Geothermal project, a 36 megawatt plant in Humboldt County in northwestern Nevada
lpo.energy.gov...

Solar Trust of America of California

The company is noted for having turned down a $2.1 billion loan guarantee by the Department of Energy (DOE) for the construction of the Blythe project.[2][3] Its chairman of the board and chief executive officer is Uwe T. Schmidt.

I have looked up many of the companies on that list and the numbers just do not add up. Above are a couple that I looked up Solar Trust of America of California did not even take the loan. Many of the companies are still hiring.

Where are you getting your information from? I know a few of them I saw are filing bankruptcy but the list you have is not accurate.

Bright Source of California

The Department of Energy closed on a $1.6 billion loan guarantee for BrightSource Energy, Inc. that will nearly double the generation capacity of concentrated solar in the U.S. and will create approximately 1,000 construction jobs and 86 operations and maintenance jobs.

DOE


.They are hiring. Shouldn’t this be considered GOOD news? I am glad that our country is investing in clean renewable energy. Hopefully we will be able to overtake China in this field after all we did develop it.

According to the CBO analysis of stimulus provisions:

– They raised real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) by between 0.3 percent and 1.9 percent (see Table 1),
– They lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.2 percentage points and 1.3 percentage points,
– They increased the number of people employed by between 0.4 million and 2.4 million, and
– They increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs by 0.5 million to 3.3 million. (Increases in FTE jobs include shifts from part-time to full-time work or overtime and are thus generally larger than increases in the number of employed workers.)

blogs.ajc.com...

Government stimulus was hit or miss, but according to the nonpartisan CBO report, it was beneficial for total economy. Whether or not some growth and confidence is worth a few giant budget deficits remains to be seen.

Here's the most level headed analysis I've found so far on DOE grants.

The DOE gave grants and loan guarantees before the industry sorted out what technologies and what companies would be the winners and losers. Therefore there will be some black eyes on the program before all is said and done. Does that make it a failure? No, but it does make the investment questionable.

What we may take away from this, more than anything, is that the government can incentivize behavior it wants to encourage, but investing in companies is a bad way to do that. Grants for cash-generating utility projects, tax incentives for investment, and investments in efficiency have paid off in many ways. But a few dings, no matter how small, on $34.5 billion in total awards can make a program look like a colossal failure, even if it has done some good in the energy industry.

www.dailyfinance.com...

Lemon picking vs Cherry Picking. The real numbers that matter are unemployment. That number can't be lemon picked or cherry picked!

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by ANNED

 

I'm interested in looking into the information you posted, do you have any links that would be helpful so I don't have to go company by company

edit on 5-9-2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)

Finding some, article on DOE grants from factcheck.org...

According to Bloomberg News, even with the losses from Solyndra, the default rate for the DOE’s loans to solar, wind and bio-energy projects is less than 3.6 percent, less than a third of what the White House anticipated. So Romney is using the same “lemon-picking” strategies that critics of his Bain years use — choosing a few sour specifics to give a misleading picture of the larger reality. And he’s straining facts and misquoting a leading investigator as well.

another www.politifact.com...

www.freedomworks.org...

The U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform conducted a report of the DOE’s handling of their loan guarantee program and discovered disastrous outcomes.

You're definitely on to something. I wasn't aware of how extensive this problem was. Any other links would be appreciated.

edit on 5-9-2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)

The problem with the Obama administration is that they gamble away people's hard earned tax dollars. For anyone to refute that makes them no better than the President they support.

Btw, Obama's economic recovery is slower than Reagan or even Bush 43.

reply to post by RELDDIR


This should be the focus of debates because it is the most significant thing that the parties fundamentally disagree about, free market/small gov vs. regulation economics/big gov.
,
I think each policy is superior in different situations. In short, if private sector culture is responsible/moralistic then it's free market and if not regulation is needed.

The thing about that is shoddy ethics in private sector probably equals shoddy ethics in government.

So, what I always end up getting back to is that solving America's problems starts with culture. Health care reform? People should live healthier. Too many entitlements? More people should volunteer/donate.

It's not considered smart politics to tell the people to change, which is the issue as much as government.

reply to post by Alxandro

Mayor Castro just mentioned God, and there was silence since most Dems despise God.

Good...the last thing the USA needs is a religious party

He also mentioned prosperity, yet almost all Dems believe in equality.

Yeah, dems like human rights equality, and equal civil rights...that has nothing to do with prosperity.

Guarantee you no one is going to get nuts thrown at them and racist attacks at the DNC.

Originally posted by RELDDIR
The problem with the Obama administration is that they gamble away people's hard earned tax dollars. For anyone to refute that makes them no better than the President they support.

This makes no sense. That is a product of the government...they do that regardless of who is president.

The speeches that I saw were really good. They were really uplifting and not pandering to angry birthers like at the GOP.

Since you put it that way, Obama is the worst gambler in history.

Originally posted by RealSpoke

Originally posted by RELDDIR
The problem with the Obama administration is that they gamble away people's hard earned tax dollars. For anyone to refute that makes them no better than the President they support.

This makes no sense. That is a product of the government...they do that regardless of who is president.

edit on 5-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Alxandro
Mayor Castro just mentioned God,

Guess he didn't get the memo ...
ATS thread - Dems Drop 'GOD' and 'Jerusalem' from party platform

It seemed like Michelle's speech was trying to sell people on... the government. How great the government is, how we should all be part of the government, how the government is like a big parent to take care of you. At points I wondered what country I was actually in. Russia? Germany? Cuba?