An interesting thought regarding our current speed, page 1

An interesting thought regarding our current speed, page

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Topic started on 4-9-2012 @ 04:54 PM by SageBeno

So on earth we live.
Our Earth orbits our sun, and our solar system speeds along at two hundred thousand and something kmp/h around a supermassive black hole..

Consider the space outside of our galaxy the base time and space.
If a friend from this base space wanted to come visit all of our lovely selves on Earth, they then have to first accelerate to such a speed before even considering seeying us.

So im asking, we dont feel like we are travelling that fast, would that have an adverse effect on how we percieve time compared to the base time?

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:11 PM by 3Dplus

If a train leaves the station at exactly 20:12 and moves at x speed, and another train leaves the opposite station travelling at breakneck speed does that mean elephants don't hunt in the winter?

Sorry, I made a funnie -_-
The idea of space and time always fuddles me brain. I try as much as possible to just live in the now. I am only at the starting point in as much as I'm slooowly getting used to the idea of exactly how far one light year is and how far away the moon is from our blue planet.

So, knowing I know nothing, I'm saying...seeing as no one really has any idea of what base time is, our perception thereof, is probably based on experience, therefore...wrong. Maybe a case of "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it.

If i'm not making any sense, just ignore me. I'll go away eventually

I need to go lie down now, my brain's all fuddled by trying to find the words to explain what I mean.

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:15 PM by ctdannyd

It all comes down to your frame of reference, to put it another way, it's all relative!

Besides, if you watch Steven Greer, you should know we'd travel at the speed of thought, and think oneself to wherever (whenever) we want to be!

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:18 PM by DrZrD

reply to post by SageBeno

The orbital motion of our solar system my be 200,000 km/hr but it is still less than 1/4000 of the speed of light. And for velocities much less than the speed of light time dilation is proportional to

dt ~ 1+(1/2)*(v/c)^2

So the answer to your question is that very little time dilation is observed even at 200,000 km/hr.

Best regards,
Z

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:19 PM by 3Dplus

It all comes down to your frame of reference, to put it another way, it's all relative!

That's exactly what I meant. Thanks. Phew!

And DrZrd...that answer makes perfect sense without sending my head spinning. Thanks for that too.

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:26 PM by Wifibrains

Hi sagebeno, I went down this road a little while ago and ended up having a vision. Could we be building a larger material world, object, of life form in another scale/dimension as we travel, kind of like particles in a atom in a fractal universe. It boggles the mind trying to visualise the trail we leave behind us, but the harder you try the more solidity you see in the trails. Especially when you add in all the moons in the solar system. I tried to put it into words here,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm going to lie down now too.lol

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:29 PM by Wifibrains

Originally posted by DrZrD
reply to post by SageBeno

The orbital motion of our solar system my be 200,000 km/hr but it is still less than 1/4000 of the speed of light. And for velocities much less than the speed of light time dilation is proportional to

dt ~ 1+(1/2)*(v/c)^2

So the answer to your question is that very little time dilation is observed even at 200,000 km/hr.

Best regards,
Z

But wouldnt you now have to add to that the speed the earth goes around the sun? Also the spin, depending on which way it spins to the direction the solar system is traveling?

edit on 4-9-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 05:29 PM by inverslyproportional

reply to post by SageBeno

There is no "base time" or stopped "base stationary speed" as the entire universe is constantly in flux and motion. Thhere isn't a single way we have come up with to figure out what a "non moving" stationary point in space time would be, as space and time are also in constant motion.

One could try to stop relative to all matter in the universe, but we can't detect to direction and rotation of atoms at the same time, we can only detect one or the other.

So we could stop relative to the milky way, but would still be in motion relative to andromeda, and all other galaxies.

However being stopped relative to the milky way, would put us in motion relative to our solar system as it is moving around the center mass of the milky way.

So there is no such thing as stopped, relative to more than either a single atoms spin, or its direction not both, it is not possible.

edit on 4-9-2012 by inverslyproportional because: lol i wrote span and rotation instead of spin(rotation) and direction, i am silly somtimes.

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 06:12 PM by DrZrD

reply to post by Wifibrains

As it turns out the tangential velocity of our solar system around the center of the Milky Way was revised to be 914,000 km/hr a few years ago (much greater than 200,000 km/hr suggested by the OP). Moreover, the Milky Way Galaxy is moving through space at 2,300,000 km/hr for a combined velocity around 3,000,000 km/hr or 833 km/s. But even at the tremendous speed of 833 km/s it is still just a tiny fraction of 300,000 km/s for the speed of light.

Yes, the velocity from earths orbit around the sun must be added or subtracted from the absolute solar system velocity but at ~30 km/s it is insignificant.

Similarly, while earths gravity alone causes time slowing at the surface it is an insignificant effect. Earths rotation gives rise to relativistic rotational frame-dragging effects but these cause an even smaller degree of time dilation.

In summary, the combined time dilation effects from the Milky Way velocity through space, solar system velocity around our galactic center, earths velocity around our sun, earths gravitational space-time distortion, and earths rotational frame-dragging effects only cause an imperceptible amount of time slowing.

Best regards,
Z

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 06:42 PM by Wifibrains

Originally posted by DrZrD
reply to post by Wifibrains

As it turns out the tangential velocity of our solar system around the center of the Milky Way was revised to be 914,000 km/hr a few years ago (much greater than 200,000 km/hr suggested by the OP). Moreover, the Milky Way Galaxy is moving through space at 2,300,000 km/hr for a combined velocity around 3,000,000 km/hr or 833 km/s. But even at the tremendous speed of 833 km/s it is still just a tiny fraction of 300,000 km/s for the speed of light.

Yes, the velocity from earths orbit around the sun must be added or subtracted from the absolute solar system velocity but at ~30 km/s it is insignificant.

Similarly, while earths gravity alone causes time slowing at the surface it is an insignificant effect. Earths rotation gives rise to relativistic rotational frame-dragging effects but these cause an even smaller degree of time dilation.

In summary, the combined time dilation effects from the Milky Way velocity through space, solar system velocity around our galactic center, earths velocity around our sun, earths gravitational space-time distortion, and earths rotational frame-dragging effects only cause an imperceptible amount of time slowing.

Best regards,
Z

It's very interesting, I like thinking about this stuff. So time does slow down, if we where to be going round in a complete circle is it possible we could eventually catch up to our selves given enought time with this time dilation. The symbol Ouroborus comes to mind.

edit on 4-9-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 07:08 PM by DrZrD

reply to post by Wifibrains

No, even if we experienced an arbitrary degree of time slowing on earth we could never "catch-up" with ourselves when traveling in a circle.

Perhaps a read of Einstein's "Twin Paradox" on Wikipedia will answer your remaining questions.

Best regards,
Z

edit on 9/4/2012 by DrZrD because: grammar

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 04:13 AM by Wifibrains

reply to post by DrZrD

Ok, only I saw a documentary on time travel theory, I think it was one of Morgan freemans through the wormhole, that did suggest it was possible to travel fast enough to get somewhere befor you left, by going in a circle.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 05:18 AM by Cauliflower

If you were to get trapped by the gravity well of a black hole you would be in free fall so it would feel like you were not experiencing any gravity at all. I suspect distortions that distant observers see viewing a black hole from far away like the event horizon would change from your perspective as you sped down into the gravity well.

There are probably some answers to be found from discussions about Sagittarius A, which passed near the gravity well of a super massive black hole.

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 07:18 PM by DrZrD

reply to post by Wifibrains

A la Einstein

There was a young girl named Bright

Who would travel much faster than light

She started one day

In the relative way,

And came back the previous night.

Winnipeg Free Press, June 12, 1931, page 58

It is not possible to time travel to the past using the physics we understand today.

Best regards,
Z

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 07:28 PM by Wifibrains

reply to post by DrZrD

Hi z, now I'm confused, so if bright came back the previous night, did she go back in time because she went faster than light?

If So at the speed of light, time stops, so you would get there in no time, so you never left yet.

Slower you would no longer be there, but if you kept going round, would you catch up eventually?

"Humanity are on a voyage of self discovery". Not sure who said that, lol.

Namaste, wifi.

reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 02:21 AM by DrZrD

reply to post by Wifibrains

The limerick is only intended to be funny, for a physicist at least. This June 1931 reference is the earliest I located but since Einstein's Special Relativity and General Relativity papers were written in 1905 and 1916, respectively, I suspect the limerick is older; the original author is unknown.

We can never know what will happen at speeds faster than light because anything with physical mass requires an infinite amount of energy to reach this speed. Regardless, the limerick is nonsensical, if Bright returned the previous night and told herself not to travel an impossible paradox occurs.

No, we cannot travel faster than light and, excluding the fantastic or unsurvivable suggestions, we cannot travel to past times.

Best regards,
Z

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