New Testament Fairy Tales

Originally posted by jiggerj
If this is such great advice why don't we all just quit our jobs. Let's teach our kids that when they grow up they have no need to save money for the future, no need to spend money on food and clothing. Yep, real super advice.

The advice is that God will provide if you are faithful to him. Its actually good advice, and I've witnessed in action in my own life. Man enslaves man through jobs, unnecessary 'goods' and 'services', that keep you a prisoner having to work to pay for these things.

Matthew 6
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[a]?

This goes into what the mark is at the end times. Its all about making your government your God and depending on this system to take care of your needs and safety vs putting your faith in your real God.

Originally posted by jiggerj
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And then there's this from the NT.

Matthew 27: The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Really? I mean, REALLY? And the mature religious adults with an IQ over 80 believe this happened? Come on now.

This is also recorded in other Pseudepigraphal texts in more detail, such as the “Acts of Pilot: The Book of Nicodemus”. There were specific known people who were brought back to tell the story of the “Harrowing of Hell”, these folks told what happened in hell when Christ broke the gates and defeated death, then they returned to the afterlife.

If everyone grew a garden no one would ever go hungry...it's self-fulfilling, not a paradox, just a given.

If the entire "collective" of the human race were to think of another with goodly love, then everyone would be loved...how simplistic is that? If not perfect....

Perhaps our "collective ego," must be subjugated or eliminated by love? Could be another "beast" in first-principle, wouldn't it be ironic if that were true and it manifested itself upon the earth according to certain conditions? Amazing...

reply to post by defcon5


That's another level on the meaning that I agree with as well. That we are to have faith, and if we're living with integrity, lending a helping hand, even volunteering, opportunities can come our way, but also, abundance isn't just the worldly things. For the ones who are able to and wise, trying to avoid big mortgages, and finding alternative ways, they have more ability to assist others.

I agree with that interpretation as well as the other.

reply to post by trekwebmaster


Well they are right in the idea of the test is to become gods, but I don't like the word gods at all. I suppose it fits into their pyramid structure and inequality.

Christ said, all that he has done we can do and greater, meaning we are to seek within, and with right intent, actions, words, work, whatever we are able to do and give, to meditate and pray and seek within and ask for insight and help working through our weak spots and striving to connect to our Source, we can shine our light in. But Family see all as equal and they are too humble to like the term god/God. I don't like the term God at all. Its a pyramid word, and its all about everyone, and Family, as above, so below. Which is why they wish to destroy families as much as they can (I am not talking about equality and sexual orientation here, though they use these in the wrong way), but there are many strikes against family and child rearing going on.

Its equality, always has been and always be that matters.

And the attributes of Father/Mother/God/Goodness by any term we use for the Spirit of Peace and Love and our spiritual Parents, and all the Good Family is: love, kindness, humility, fairness, gentleness, respect, compassion, generosity, service to others, sharing, walking in another's footsteps, tending those in need, visiting the lonely, lending a helping hand, listening, sharing burdens, etc.

And then turn the dial and crank it Higher/Higher/Higher/Higher and there are no words to even touch on the Profound Love and Goodness of our Family.

I don't use terms in the bible, names for God, as the terms are coded. And I don't like their coding at all.

TPTB have us all stamped and sealed/delivered to their dark lords, they think. But they don't get that intent of heart is everything and that even those who do use words are off their hook as they still mean, when they say God, Elohim, Adonis, and any number of others: The Highest Love and Goodness in existence by the meaning of their heart, at least for most. They don't mean Saturn.

I can assure them that they will not be meeting their QUOTA!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Why are you still at this, what's your driver or motivator jiigerj?

When I was a kid I used to watch candlepin bowling on Saturday afternoons. I enjoyed it so much that I had to go bowling right after.

It's the same with this. I LOVE watching the Atheism vs. Religion debates (mostly with Christopher Hitchins for atheism). I just love it, and it inspires me to write about it here. C.H. passed away last year, but what a brilliant mind he had.

I am not an active atheist. My health is failing. I'm tired all the time. So, writing a few threads here and there is the only thing I enjoy now. I'm not really bashing anyone (though I'm sure it must feel that way, and I apologize for it). I want to push religious people to think harder on their beliefs, not so much for them to change, but to come up with new ideas for me to mull over.

I've watched Frank Turek (for religion) debate Hitchins. He, too, is a powerful debater. I respect him as much as I do any famous atheist.

Bottom line, it's a hobby.

Thanks for asking.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

As a bit of a rebel you'd think you'd more of an appreciation for Jesus and what he was all about..

Oh I do! I LOVE religious movies!

But, they're just fictional stories. I get chills knowing that people really believe it. It's the same feeling I get when people actually believe those wrestlers in the WWF (I think they changed their name) are actually wrestling. BRRR!

Sorry, I was heading out the door when I wrote that, so its sort of simplistic.
To better explain though...

Your whole perspective seems to be that you believe that through working and providing for your family that you somehow control your life. This is a very common idea, and one that is even more commonly shown to be false in the long run. You can work to accumulate all the worldly wealth that you desire, but God ultimately controls your life, your death, and how well you live while your here. You REALLY control NOTHING...

Exactly how much MORE wealth does the rich man take with him into the afterlife, when he dies, then the poor man does?

How much more of a guarantee does the rich man have, then the poor man, that he will live to see tomorrow?

Why is it so common for the wealthy to end up with substance abuse problems, or end up meeting an unhappy end?

James 4-
13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.

Proverbs 11:4 -
Riches do not profit in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death.

James 5:1-6 -
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. ...

Mark 8:36 -
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Christians know better to worry about these things, as they know that its all in Gods hands anyway, and there is nothing that we ultimately control. Worry about life, safety, wealth, and riches all you want, but you're still not going to control what happens... So why worry about it at all?

If you chose not to believe in the ultimate message of the Bible, that is for each to decide on their own, but even the wisest of men have a hard time arguing with the wisdom of what the Bible teaches.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by jiggerj

 

When I say wisdom, I mean alot more than just the 10 Commandments and the Golden rule in general. Wisdom about people and situations and how you can interact with them, wisdom about how to go about being a better person and truly loving one another and maybe making this world a little better of a place. Maybe someone grew up with horrible parents and was abused and learned the opposite of all this through their life experiences and need some guidance to a better path. I think that most of the real wisdom is written sort of between the lines because the Bible has been so tampered with by men over the years. Men who had an agenda at that. It should'nt be taken literally for that reason alone. I do think the bible is an awesome collection of literary work though.

Wow, you pretty much just trashed a book that millions believe every event written in it is absolutely true. I do agree that the bible is a collection of awesome stories!

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Why are you still at this, what's your driver or motivator jiigerj?

When I was a kid I used to watch candlepin bowling on Saturday afternoons. I enjoyed it so much that I had to go bowling right after.

It's the same with this. I LOVE watching the Atheism vs. Religion debates (mostly with Christopher Hitchins for atheism). I just love it, and it inspires me to write about it here. C.H. passed away last year, but what a brilliant mind he had.

I am not an active atheist. My health is failing. I'm tired all the time. So, writing a few threads here and there is the only thing I enjoy now. I'm not really bashing anyone (though I'm sure it must feel that way, and I apologize for it). I want to push religious people to think harder on their beliefs, not so much for them to change, but to come up with new ideas for me to mull over.

I've watched Frank Turek (for religion) debate Hitchins. He, too, is a powerful debater. I respect him as much as I do any famous atheist.

Bottom line, it's a hobby.

Thanks for asking.

I gotcha, that's cool, but I hope that you too are equally open-minded because sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction even science fiction.

It's the same with this. I LOVE watching the Atheism vs. Religion debates (mostly with Christopher Hitchins for atheism). I just love it, and it inspires me to write about it here. C.H. passed away last year, but what a brilliant mind he had.

A wonderful man, God rest his soul.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by jiggerj
If this is such great advice why don't we all just quit our jobs. Let's teach our kids that when they grow up they have no need to save money for the future, no need to spend money on food and clothing. Yep, real super advice.

The advice is that God will provide if you are faithful to him. Its actually good advice, and I've witnessed in action in my own life. Man enslaves man through jobs, unnecessary 'goods' and 'services', that keep you a prisoner having to work to pay for these things.

I have to disagree with you here, Defcon. I know that Jesus spoke in parables that referenced being faithful to god. I just don't think so with this speech. He didn't mention or even allude to being faithful to god. I think he was talking about how anyone should/could survive in this world. I could be wrong. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it.

In the eternal life Christopher Hitchens would have (and may) found that to be about the most humorous thing he's ever heard.

He'll probably do another round however, as the world's greatest theologian, ya never know anything's possible.

reply to post by jiggerj


Haven't you in your long life ever got the sense that somehow everything seemed to be working out ok, and even though you can't always get what you want, if you try sometimes, (but not with worry or an excessive attachment to an outcome) you just might find you get what you need..

Some things can be explained by adjusting your perception to match the people of the times perception. Some of the stuff is fairy tales. I think that some of these fantasies may have even been created later on during some of the changes authorized by the church. They could call it a translation or perception change to justify it's creation. Not many people knew how to read those days so I don't know why they bothered to change it, maybe consistency as the church expanded.

Overall there is a lot of good taught in the bible. The ten commandments are not fantasy, they keep people human.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by jiggerj

 

. I think that most of the real wisdom is written sort of between the lines because the Bible has been so tampered with by men over the years. Men who had an agenda at that. It should'nt be taken literally for that reason alone. I do think the bible is an awesome collection of literary work though.

Wow, you pretty much just trashed a book that millions believe every event written in it is absolutely true. I do agree that the bible is a collection of awesome stories!

The idea that the Bible has been tampered with pretty much comes from those who wish to pick on the Bible. You can still go back and read the original fragments that the Bible comes from, if you so wish. You can also chose which of the many translations you most prefer. There are many sites, and software applications, which allow you to cross-reference all the translations, as well as go back to the original language if you so desire.

I've said this countless times on here, but the New Testament can be proven to have been pretty much selected by the time of St. Irenaeus, who quoted from 21 or 27 of the books in his writing of 'Against Heresies'. Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp of Smyrna, who in turn was taught by John the Apostle. The same holds true for Christian Father Ignatius of Antioch. All of this happened well before the time of Constantine the Great, the existence of the Roman Catholic Church, or the Catholic canonization of the Bible.

Believe me, if it had been in the powers of the RCC to change the Bible, the RCC would have done so, and the Protestant Reformation would have never happened.

reply to post by defcon5


Well if the situation is grim and the odds are against us, then it's a test of character, each person's Kobayashi Maru, so why not do what Kirk did and reprogram the simulator to where it were possible to save the ship?

Probably get kudos for original thinking, but still, if all that is and more, then possibly it IS a test of character, what we do TO day, because tomorrow is not ours until indeed tomorrow comes, which gives another chance to gain positive character traits, and over time, you'll refine the silver and purity those good intentions with action and over time ridding your being of negative karma or traits? It stacks day by day possibly?

Battle of Ideologies perhaps? on a LOGOS level perhaps?

Originally posted by jiggerj
I have to disagree with you here, Defcon. I know that Jesus spoke in parables that referenced being faithful to god. I just don't think so with this speech. He didn't mention or even allude to being faithful to god. I think he was talking about how anyone should/could survive in this world. I could be wrong. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it.

Just read the whole thing in context, and you'll see what its about:

Matthew 6:25-34
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[a]?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

God is saying, don't worry, have faith, and God will provide for you.

reply to post by jiggerj


I don't believe I trashed it at all, the council of Nicea did that long ago. What many people that blindly believe every story and word in the Bible don't realize is that God did not write these books. Men did. There is alot of history and meaning in the Bible and even if it was not the basis for Christianity I would still have it on my bookshelf. God bless you.

Originally posted by defcon5

The idea that the Bible has been tampered with pretty much comes from those who wish to pick on the Bible. You can still go back and read the original fragments that the Bible comes from, if you so wish.

For the longest time, only monks and the clergy could read or write. Thats where the word "clerk" originally comes from. The books that the council of nicea could tweak and make fit into their agenda were put in the christian cannon and the ones that were detrimental to their agenda were tossed aside and forgotten. I've read the Gnostic gospels too and many of them portray Jesus as alot more human than the church would have you believe. Maybe thats why they were thrown out.

The NT is a Flavian literary masterpiece that has enslaved the world for 2,000 years; it is completely fantasy literature written for many purposes none of which have one fooking thing to do with a mystical Messiah or personal salvation.

reply to post by LightBreeze


Are you sure, and if so, how can you be so sure? I would like to better understand these bold proclamations.