ladies, I would like your opinions/advice on an extreme situation. Shoot me down if you must

I'm about to make a big fool out of myself, again. Here's some of the story, I'll try not to bore you with what you've surely heard a thousand times before. There's the ex that I never got over. 3 years ago I ended it, mainly to test whether her feelings were true (lots of stress on both of us at the time as well). Needless to say, it backfired on me and she didn't seem to care an awful lot. I sold my guitar at the time and purchased a ring, to show that I was sorry and all that, some sort of grand gesture to win her back. Unfortunately for me, she didn't take me back. A few of her girl friends had an awful lot to say about me and convinced her of what a terribly lacking person I am (ironically now they have since fallen out and have become somewhat bitter rivals). We argued much about the status of that ring and what it meant. Eventually, I demanded she give it back. I heaved it into the distance in front of her...

It was at this time I fell into a deep depression. I would constantly try to talk to her and send messages. We argued and said many nasty things to each other. This went on for quite some time, perhaps a year and a half. She refused to see me in person (I understand and respect that, when thinking about it logically), and this annoyed me greatly. This charade went on and on, name calling, insults and threats of violence (on both parts). Eventually, all my friends were sick of hearing about it and her friends were too.

We stopped contacting each other over a year ago. Recently, I saw her at a pub I often go to. Initially, I was full of rage, remembering all that had been said. I downed several beers and finally went up and talked to her. Poof. The bitterness was gone. We managed a conversation and had a good time. I'm usually a very awkward and shy person, but for some reason, I felt supremely confident. I made sure to make eye contact (a rarity for me) and in return I got 'that look' (do you know the one I mean, or am I kidding myself?). This simple event was a huge milestone for me. It showed me on one hand that I didn't really hate this person at all, and that in spite of all I had said to her, she didn't hate me either. Considering the things that I have said to her, this was really surprising. I detected that she still cared about me.

The week after that, I tried to talk to her via text message asking if she would like to be friends with me now, as I was done with this game of abusing each other, and I thought we were both lonely and could use a friend. She told me that I had destroyed that chance long ago and she didn't want to have anything to do with me. Being the way that I am, I had some not so nice things to say about that and again we abused each other.
At this point, the only way that she would talk to me is if I sent increasingly nasty messages in order to get a reaction. I also realised that some part of her was playing along with this. She could have chosen not to reply at any point. It was some kind of psychological warfare, a game. Previously, months would pass and then out of the blue I would get an abusive message from her, so it did go both ways. I enjoyed this in a painful way, as it meant she was still thinking about me somehow. As sick as it may be, this is what was going on. I accept the responsibility for my part, but I feel that it wasn’t just me that was continuing this ‘thing’. I happen to know that she is rather lonely, I think she enjoyed the attention some how.

On Sunday night, I was with my two best friends. As I was heading home from the weekly folk session I attend, we made a last minute decision to call into my ex's new place. She happens to live with my friends ex girlfriend as well, you see. My friend is moving away soon and he thought he might like to see his girl one more time. They knocked on the door while I waited outside. I didn't dare come in; even I could see how weird that would be. But sure enough, my friend came back to the car and said they want me to come inside and say hello. So I grabbed my banjo and headed inside. I sat down and played a very rude song, to which she took great offence she went off to sulk in her room. It was at this point I bit the bullet.

I opened the door with the intention of causing a fuss, of demanding that she tell me once and for all that she doesn't care about me, to leave her alone and just **** off. But once I stepped inside it melted away. I realised then that it wasn't her that I was angry at. I had no bitterness for this person. I apologised for the song and ensured her it wasn't about her. She was under the covers having a sulk, not really making eye contact with me at this point. I told her that I never really meant any of the things that I said in those messages, and that all i wanted all along was to talk to her in person. She didn't say much, but I got the strong feeling that she was thinking, 'Its ok, I knew that anyway'. I asked her to tell me to my face that she doesn’t want to see me ever again, that she really doesn’t care. She kept silent. Then she asked me, 'why would I want to be friends with you'? a difficult question to answer I must say, but I said something about me having a different attitude now days, more maturity and so on (not really a good track record to prove it though).

It seemed to be ok; she didn't ask me to leave (which I was honestly expecting). She poured me a shot of vodka, and we went out for a cigarette. My friend started singing 'the circle of life'. Being a tragic Disney movie fan, she sang along whole heartedly with a big grin. The irony of the situation was overwhelming. It was hilarious. We were there maybe an hour, she talked about what she has been doing with her life, had a little gossip session about these girls (the irony being, they were the ones that convinced her to get rid of me) and just generally goofed around like idiots. I tried to catch her eye, occasionally I would get 'that look', but she would always then look away. As we left, she made a point of giving my friend a big hug (you girls know just the right little tricks to play sometimes).

I left feeling very optimistic. I couldn't believe this person hadn't kicked me out of their home, and better yet it seemed they weren't mad at me despite what had gone on between us. I began to think that all it needed all along was for me to see her in person and have that chat. I felt like she missed me and wanted to begin a friendship in earnest. She seemed as lonely as I am. I knew that in order for this to happen, I shouldn’t text message her and try to make her open up to me about all this rubbish that she clearly didn’t want to talk about. I knew that I should no longer abuse her or beg her to talk to me. I’ve since cracked, and sent a message asking if she would like to be my friend now, to which I’ve received no reply. I feel as though, this is probably as far as I can push it. Stalemate. She will never want a proper 2 way friendship where we can actually talk to each other or spend time together, and I understand and respect that, considering the things I have said.

Having seen her and now knowing that she doesn’t completely detest me, I miss her more than ever it seems. I wish that she could hate me enough that I could let it go, but it seems nothing I say or do can cause that (oh how I’ve tried). If there is no way forward as far as a friendship goes, and no way back, then it seems this is it. Most sane people would be happy with that, knowing that their ex doesn’t hate them and can be civil in person. But I’m a little different and perhaps a little bit sick and delusional. So what do I want from her then? I would like to get to the stage that we could have a drink together and talk to each other, if we’re feeling down or just to catch up every now and then. I could live with that, I could cope with that, and these days I’m mature enough that I could pull that off without screwing it up. I don’t want to worm my way back in and have sex with her, nor do I expect her to take me back and just forget everything that’s happened. I do believe though, that she cares about me, and that I could be a good person for her to know, a person who really cares. But as I’ve said, there’s nothing I can think of that will progress the situation from this stalemate. I get the rather strong feeling, in ‘that look’ that she wants me to do something, anything, be a little bit dramatic and take the initiative. What I feel like doing at this point is going out, selling my banjo and buying another ring to replace the one I threw away. A childish move, but that’s the sort of person I am when it comes to these things.

Ladies (or gents) of ATS, having read this sad and sorry tale of foolish young love, what do you think about this? I do fully expect to be told that I’m delusional and I should leave this poor person alone. I can see that point of view, and perhaps it would help me to drill it into my think skull that this person doesn’t care about me and I’m simply deluding myself. I’ve tried to be as honest as I can and not bias the story to make me appear more innocent than I am. I’ve handled it all terribly and I acknowledge that. Maybe though, if any women are reading this, they can explain maybe this girl would be feeling from her point of view. If there is anything I can do to help this situation, or not damage it further, I would love to hear it. This entire piece has been an outlet for me, I’m just reaching out now, however desperate it appears I simply don’t care.

How old are you? The reason I ask is what you've described sounds like an extremely immature relationship. I'm not trying to offend you, but you asked for honest advice. So here goes.

In dissecting your behavior, have you noticed how many times you said something rude or hateful to her? Whether in response to something she said or did, or just because you're upset with her. That's extremely toxic, and unhealthy for both of you.

IMO, you need to move on. Find someone more mature, and practice that maturity yourself. When you're in a healthy relationship, you respect your partner and she respects you.

Best of luck to you...

Just wow.

I thought I was reading about the past 3 years of my life. Honestly. I'm still in pretty much the exact same situation. Playing these mind games.

I honestly don't know what to say but maybe it's comforting to know you're not the only one?

I guess if it always ends messy then it's not meant to be. Can you be in love but not actually get along? Is that where the Love/Hate relationship comes from?

Sorry I'm not much help...

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Just speculating, but I'd say you have blown a lot of her trust on past behavior. I doubt that she can forget all of it, even if she forgives.

What's to stop you from reverting to this type of reaction if (when) things get somewhat rocky? In every relationship/life there will be tough times, and how you respond reveals what you become under pressure. I can't speak for every female, but I'd sure want to be able to count on a partner who wouldn't lash out and become mean when he felt stress. You're gonna have stress if you're alive.

If you truly want THIS girl, then how will you proceed to convince her that you fully understand how reactionary and wrong your behavior was, and that you intend never to respond this way again? Do you intend not to engage in destructive and insulting attacks?

If you are this person who is nasty to her when you get annoyed, then you are rather presumptuous in expecting her to take you back. Doesn't she deserve a nice guy? ARE you that guy? I hope so.

Someone once said to identify what and who is most important in your life. Then, act accordingly. This would not include abusive behavior to someone you loved EVER.

I always get asked this question, and fair enough. I'm 21. and yes, it was extremely immature and toxic. But it's one of those things, If we could have gotten through that patch, it would have turned out fine in the end. She's a very immature girl, unfortunately she's permanently engrained in my psyche and I haven't been able to move on. I'm not particularly confident with girls, nor do I have the desire to be in a relationship with one. I've more or less given up on that game that most people my age play. Its just this one that I make a special exception for, stupid as it may be, that's how it is

reply to post by Tasmanaut


sigh. I love English men.

As a woman I can tell that you love this person deeply. You have disconnected yourself from your true feelings which is bad for you. Years from now, it will come back to haunt you if you don't do something now. Advice? I would not worry as to whether or not she replies to your words. That is power. If you pray, do so and then get love of yourself first. Next, tell her that you did not realize the depth of your feelings, that you are afraid of them and afraid not to do something about them.

If she fights, just walk away. If she says she wants to go back to you good. But don't let her take up all of your energies, time, love. She might be playing with your emotions and dramatizing them to her satisfaction. Do you want that for the rest of your life? Another girl is out there who won't do this to you. Do yourself a favor and love you first.

reply to post by Swizzy


Thank you for your reply. I feel for you and your situation in that case. I believe that you can be in love and not get on. To tell the truth, ever since I've know her we've never gotten along. That being said, I don't get on with my mother or my brother either, though I love them dearly. In my situation, I was going through and angsty phase and took a lot of my frustration out on her, and she did the same. Never in a physical or violent way, but there was always an element of mind games between me and her. She would do the whole 'commuting suicide' thing to get my attention, whence why I broke up with her to have my own little attention seeking thing. It was childish and stupid, but you know how it goes. I believe that we always take it out on the ones closest to us. We push away the ones we love, because we take for granted they will always come back

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Learn from all of your mistakes; leave her alone; and move on. Work on forgiving yourself; and being your own best friend; have a romance with yourself; become a more confident and kind person....then you will be ready for another relationship.

In 10 years time you will look back at this and think, weren't we both immature idiots..

No to the ring. That spells commitment, which neither of you are ready for. Maybe send her flowers, for no reason other than to brighten her day. Or a fun "thinking of you" card. If there is any hope of rebuilding any kind of relationship with her, you have to take it slow. Show you care. Expect nothing in return.
If you do get the opportunity to converse, stop rehashing all the negativity of the past. Its over and done, and cant be undone. You have already apologized. All you can do is move past it and start new. Telling her you've changed will prove nothing. Show her you have changed.
Focus on the moment, and make each moment you spend with her a good one. Leave her smiling. Eventually the good memories will wash away the bad ones, (as long as you don't keep reminding her of them.) That's all you can do. The fact that you are still in contact is a good sign. If it is meant to happen, it will fall back into place. Just don't push too hard.

Best of luck to you both! I hope it all works out.

reply to post by Destiny10


I've tried many times to tell her how I feel. By now, she certainly knows, and it no longer gets any reaction. She knows I'm not getting over it any time soon. I think that's perhaps why she drags it out so much. I know I shouldn't give her my time or energy, that I should have love for myself... Even when we weren't in contact, I wasn't getting any better. I've more or less dropped out of society and given up on the material world. Being around her though, I felt strangely 'complete' is the best word. The next day I was glowing. I felt like changing my life and doing something worthwhile with it. It's stupid to make her the reason for that, but that's kind of how it is. Do I want this to go on forever? In a way, yeah... thankyou for your reply though

Originally posted by Tasmanaut
I always get asked this question, and fair enough. I'm 21. and yes, it was extremely immature and toxic. But it's one of those things, If we could have gotten through that patch, it would have turned out fine in the end. She's a very immature girl, unfortunately she's permanently engrained in my psyche and I haven't been able to move on. I'm not particularly confident with girls, nor do I have the desire to be in a relationship with one. I've more or less given up on that game that most people my age play. Its just this one that I make a special exception for, stupid as it may be, that's how it is

Then I would suggest treating her like a lady, with kindness and respect. You've got to change her impression of you, which right now isn't very good. If she still has feelings for you, and you treat her right, then you might rekindle the relationship.

Here's an idea. Send her some flowers with a note stating you still have feelings for her and want to try to win her trust. Then, contact her once a week via email, text, or written letter. That way you can make sure your statements are perfect AND she can reread them over and over.

Be patient. You've got a lot of damage to undo. Of course, if she wants nothing to do with you, respect that.

Good luck!

reply to post by DarknStormy


oh don't worry, I can already see that perspective. It's ridiculous :p

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Yeah our relationship was always extreme ups and downs. She was a pathological liar which was difficult to deal with. We've not been together for well over 2 years but whenever she gets some boyfriend she makes damn sure I know about it and try and make me jealous. To be fair the whole thing put me off relationships all together. She's still on the back of my mind though, always. Also knowing that she still has 'power' over me and vice versa is very strange indeed. Makes me think we're meant to be? Then when we do talk we usually argue within 10-15 minutes.

Feels good to meet someone who is going through something similar. Although the situation is certainly far from good :/

You have 2 choices. Try somehow and forget about her completely. That is obviously easier said than done but it's certainly an option. OR you could make this girl believe you are what she wants. Also easier said than done but no one ever said it was going to be easy

What would life be without decisions like these?

reply to post by smyleegrl


that's a nice idea, and I would do that, but its a bit cheesy. I really don't want to push the relationship thing. She knows full well how much I love her. I'd just really like to be around a bit more, be a proper friend and have conversations, you know? That's what I'm getting at, she doesn't want to just meet up and hang out, its only when my friends are around (she's fond of them) that I even have the opportunity. Turning up at her place is too extreme even for me and would get me know where I think, unless you think that would be ok? I've asked her to just tell me if she never wants to see me again, because I'll just stop and disappear out of her life for good, but she doesn't have anything to say to this, whence my confusion.

reply to post by Tasmanaut


I'm no expert, but I will give you some advice as a mother of two daughters both in their twenties.As such I hear the flip side of situations similar to yours.

Desperation is a completely unattractive quality. When you come across as desperate young ladies see you as weak and unworthy- and completely undesirable. There have been young men that one or the other of my daughters or their friends have been interested in, but when they start seeing signs of desperation and/or clinginess they are completely turned off and no longer have any interest. It is seen by them as a sign of low self esteem.

Not trying to hurt your feelings sweetie, just want you to know how you're coming across. Now, if you are dead set on this one particular girl things could possibly turn around but it will take time and apparently much effort on your part. I advise you to back off completely. Work on your self esteem. Ask yourself why you feel you need this young lady so badly. Get involved in making YOUR life happier. You can never be happy with anyone else until you are happy with yourself- and trust me, you don't sound very happy at all. Eat healthy, get plenty of exercise, do fun things that interest you. If the relationship was meant to be you will meet again in a much healthier state of mind, but by the time you get your head together you probably wont even need her anymore.

Like I said, not trying to hurt you, only trying to help.

Much luck and love!

reply to post by Tasmanaut


Speaking as a girl, gifts are NEVER cheesy. Even just a quick note from my hubby makes my day. Why? Because it shows he was thinking of me.

As for hanging out with your friends, that sounds like the perfect opportunity for you to demonstrate your new, mature attitude. Smile at her, say hello, but stop there unless she seems interested. She may not be, and you'll have to respect that. But if you're together in a group, she'll be watching and she'll notice the difference in your behavior. It just might fascinate her enough to be approachable.

reply to post by Swizzy


oh man, I know all about that! I wouldn't say she was a pathological liar, but she certainly did like to twist and turn the details of everything and let the world know what an evil person I am, to all my friends as well! It doesn't bother me in the end, that maybe her flaw and she was hurting at the time. And the new boyfriend/jealousy thing.... yep... had to let me know what a lousy lover I was But whatever, you know? I can't harbour much bitterness for her in the end. We just do what we need to be free. As for the choice, you're right. Find some way to forget and let it all go (I haven't found a way yet) or yeah... do the seemingly impossible and pull off the thing that movie's are made of. Yes, it is frightening to think they still have power of you... I know that logically, they don't really, but still, its there... and it does lead you to believe something... I described it to my friend the other day like this; There is some sort of link between us, its been stretched far and thin and violently yanked, but it hasn't snapped and it seems that it can't

reply to post by smyleegrl


it seemed to work brilliantly having my friends there, I was back to my old goofy self, full of confidence and conversation. Only trouble with this being, my friends are sick to death of this saga and aren't very willing to help out at this point... I could twist their arm a bit though I reckon :p it would be nice to get beyond this stage

reply to post by littled16


thank your for your thoughtful post. I see your point of view and I agree. I know how I come across. I'm sort of 'cynical' or depressed by nature, while I'm not a sad sack, I'm just not naturally full of confidence (whence I'm not very attractive to females, I guess). I've said in a thread before, I have 'Aspergers Syndrome' if you want to label it as that, I'm not naturally very social or confident in certain situations. This girl though had her own issues, I was the first to really care for her and get her out meeting people and having fun in her life, and in return she loved me in spite of my short comings. It filled me with confidence for a while. I was a happy chappy for a while with her. I have 'phases' or 'cycles' of extreme confidence and motivation followed by depression, bi-polar I guess, but I don't believe that it's a separate mental issue, its just the way that I am and it doesn't get me down too much. It does suck when it comes to things like this though. I don't really need her I guess, I could go through life and be ok... Having said that, I feel like she activates my best side and full potential, such a shame I never really got to show her that.