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Obamacare Destroyed in 6 Minutes

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posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by thepresident
 


You say you are a Ron Paul supporter. I want to know, do you support free markets or do you support government manipulation? Ron Paul would not support single payer.




posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by thepresident
 


You say you are a Ron Paul supporter. I want to know, do you support free markets or do you support government manipulation? Ron Paul would not support single payer.


Well I like Ron Paul, I think he is honest, but I am not a supporter in that sense.

I would support a single payer system along side a private system, like Obama suggested.

That way everybody would have gotten a choice.

Obama screwed up when he caved in, his idea WAS the best.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Ron Paul on this topic:




posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by MsAphrodite
 



I do not think market based solutions will solve an issue that is not subject to market forces.

EVERYONE needs healthcare, demand is fixed, therefore market forces are not going to
effect price in any meaningful way.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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I don't really think the issue is Obamacare at this point. Sure it's a piece of crap legislation, but what does Romney/Ryan have to offer in it's place?

A voucher system? Seriously?

We have such superior brain-power and 100-1000's years of experience to fall back on and the best we can do is hand out government coupons?

Someday when all these fools grow up, they will realize that the public option is the way to go. Until then, we deserve Obamacare or the horrible ideas that come from Romney.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 



Giving out government coupons?

When you put it that way it sounds so socialistic


Mitt Commey



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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So why didn't you guys on the right decide to cut out the insurance companies all together?
reply to post by thepresident
 

You fall right into the trap of left and right. I consider myself neither. I was and am a supporter of Ron Paul, and will write his name in for President when I vote.
When you immediately ASSUME someone is right or left, you negate any discourse or chance of understanding, since your mind is made up, not by careful thought, but by preconceived(and may I say erroneous) views of what you BELIEVE the person is thinking. I have no use for insurance companies, and to be honest, would have supported a modest national health care plan, where everyone has at least some basic care. I also believe that the government has no right to FORCE people to buy health care insurance, or pay a penalty. When I was a young adult, I had no health insurance nor did my family, but health care was affordable, and even though we were lower middle class(my father worked 60 hours a week to support us), we still could afford to go to a doctor. Now you can keep playing the "right versus left game", or start thinking for yourself, and above all stop thinking that you can read peoples' minds. Base your argument on what people say, not what you THINK they believe.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by thepresident
 


Open up competition across state lines and costs will come down overnight. Add in tort reform and again costs will go down overnight. There are many practical free market approaches to bringing costs down.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by thepresident
 


Open up competition across state lines and costs will come down overnight. Add in tort reform and again costs will go down overnight. There are many practical free market approaches to bringing costs down.


There is competition across state lines, one problem you are not considering is that
you would have to trample STATE LAWS to make that work. The STATE level regulations
are a huge part of that equation.

Are you suggesting that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT eliminate States rights to decide their
healthcare standards?

What you are suggesting would require that all states adhere to the state with the
LOWEST (most cost effective) standards. That is a very BIG GOVERNMENT thing
to do in fact... But most politicians have you believe that it is purely the FED that prohibits
competition, both do. The STATE regulation is the real hurdle


TORT REFORM

CBO estimates that TORT reform could save around $600,000,000 OR less than 0.5%
of yearly healthcare expenditures.

Do you see the problems in depending on these things to solve a much larger issue?

You would have to use the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to squash the state level regulations
that prevent some states from entering into other state markets.
edit on 4-9-2012 by thepresident because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus



So why didn't you guys on the right decide to cut out the insurance companies all together?
reply to post by thepresident
 

You fall right into the trap of left and right. I consider myself neither. I was and am a supporter of Ron Paul, and will write his name in for President when I vote.
When you immediately ASSUME someone is right or left, you negate any discourse or chance of understanding, since your mind is made up, not by careful thought, but by preconceived(and may I say erroneous) views of what you BELIEVE the person is thinking. I have no use for insurance companies, and to be honest, would have supported a modest national health care plan, where everyone has at least some basic care. I also believe that the government has no right to FORCE people to buy health care insurance, or pay a penalty. When I was a young adult, I had no health insurance nor did my family, but health care was affordable, and even though we were lower middle class(my father worked 60 hours a week to support us), we still could afford to go to a doctor. Now you can keep playing the "right versus left game", or start thinking for yourself, and above all stop thinking that you can read peoples' minds. Base your argument on what people say, not what you THINK they believe.



Well I try to base my opinions on what people DO, not SAY.

I do think for myself which is whyI have decided that the "right" and their proposed solutions are the ones
obstructing real progress.

Below we actually have a man proposing the basis of what Obamacare is, a standard barer for the
"right" none the less.



I cannot ignore that Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich were both for the mandate and that the mandate
was placed there to appease this political opinion. My opinion and that on the left (as in my family
and friends) was to put into place a public option that sat along side the private industry.
The mandate was a compromise to appease the GOP leaders who wanted a market based solution,
not a socialistic based solution.

I cannot ignore that Prof.

These men SAID they wanted mandates, now they are using it to better their political outcomes,
which is clear if you measure what they DID and SAID in the past.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by thepresident
 


There are MANY more suggestions besides these. We have commerce across state lines in all sorts of industry (most) so no I don't think there is any problem in eliminating the government's current over-involvement there.

Here are many more suggestions:

link



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by thepresident
 


There are MANY more suggestions besides these. We have commerce across state lines in all sorts of industry (most) so no I don't think there is any problem in eliminating the government's current over-involvement there.

Here are many more suggestions:

link


It is using BIG GOVERNMENT tactics to eliminate things that were voted for on the state level.

You are suggesting using the Federal Government to overrule State's rights?



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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I could have killed it in less than 6 minutes from my point of view.

Regardless what the Supreme Court calls it, it is forcing me to buy a private product or face penalties...call it a tax, but to me, it's still unconstitutional. My money, my choices...period.

It simply props up a private industry that is backed up by Wall Street security investors...They take your premium, they invest it in Wall Street, they make bank and will increase your rates whenever they feel like it...

That's all the reasons I need to hate on it.

I grew up in the country, people got sick, people died. Not everyone is meant to live forever...get over yourself...you will be flower fertilizer eventually. There's too many people on this damn rock now anyway. The whole idea that you are so important that someone somewhere must pay to keep you alive is arrogance at it's finest...stay healthy...or die....pretty simple to me...but have the decency to die with some dignity. Don't cry when you get sick and your health insurance says "that's pre-existing" or "we don't cover those costs"...

as Tom Petty said "take back your insurance, baby nothing... is guaranteed"



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by thepresident
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 



Giving out government coupons?

When you put it that way it sounds so socialistic


Mitt Commey



Both Obamacare and any Romney plan would be better if it was "socialistic"! Both plans are nothing more than federal handouts to corporate insurance companies and the medical industry. Neither candidates plan will cover all costs, so the gap has to be made up with their own money.

That is the problem.....people don't have that money!

So I am for replacing Obamacare...but with what?



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by thepresident
 


Decisions that were influenced by powerful lobbying from the insurance industry. I am advocating for a true free market and you keep obfuscating that with your big government baloney.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 





Obamacare is a ponzi scheme that will bankrupt the US of A. There is one presidential candidate that we know with 100% certainty WILL NOT repeal Obamacare. I’ll let you figure out who that candidate is….

I agree, I do not believe the healthcare act will be repealed. But, I base my assumption on the issue that for as long as I can remember, I often heard one party saying if they get in office they will end this or repeal that and it doesn't happen. In fact, more commonly the legislation in question gets a tweak (an amendment) or two at most and becomes a stronger piece of legislation.




posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by thepresident
 


Decisions that were influenced by powerful lobbying from the insurance industry. I am advocating for a true free market and you keep obfuscating that with your big government baloney.



I am asking to ACTUALLY look at the ideas you are presenting.

You do realize that the words you write will be turned into actions???

Don't be mad at me if those actions you advocate for require Big Government solutions.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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I will never believe another word that EVER comes out of Paul Ryan's mouth. He lied OVER AND OVER to everyone's faces on national TV on MULTIPLE TOPICS!

This race is over, they handed the Democrats EVERYTHING they need to win. So if it's a war of words..(Debating), and the challenger Romney/Ryan, already made it clear that they will INTENTIONALLY LIE to the entire country OVER AND OVER to gain votes.

Every major media outlet calls them out on it....INCLUDING FOX.

Now we can't trust them...EVEN MORE THAN ANY OTHER POLITICIAN. We know politicians lie, or avoid questions, or stretch the truth, exaggerate, etc. But this was FLAT OUT WRONG FACTS OVER AND OVER.

They lost. The public won't go for it. So I could care less what this random jack-ass Ryan has to say about "ObamaCare". Obama wants the tax payers to have health coverage like every other civilized nation that pays taxes. It's called evolving, and changing for the better. Cut the Military spending and start helping the people that pay these taxes....everyone in this country is entitled to Health Care. If Canada, France, Italy, Russia, Finland, Germany, and every major country has it.....I've been to these places PERSONALLY. The system WORKS, the people LIKE IT.

Why are we not good enough for the same?

Because our country can't afford it...because we are too busy policing the world, and going to wars (Thanks Republicans!) That is what this is all about.

We have two choices on what we can do with our money...GO TO WAR or PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE.

Vote and choose.

Peace out



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

If we put aside partisanship for 6 minutes and really take a look at the irresponsibility of Obamacare I think we can agree this is bad for our country.




That's funny. Coming from someone who's every post is always partisan.

2nd



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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yay 2 party system ! lets hear it for my team ! yay !!!



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