Nine Myths About 'Socialism' In The United States.

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posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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Myth No. 1: The US Government Is Involved in Class Warfare, Attacking the Rich to Lift Up the Poor.

There is a class war going on all right. But it is the rich against the rest of us and the rich are winning. The gap between the rich and everyone else is wider in the US than any of the 30 other countries surveyed. In fact, the top 10 percent in the US have a higher annual income than any other country. And the poorest 10 percent in the US are below the average of the other OECD countries. The rich in the US have been rapidly leaving the middle class and poor behind since the 1980s.



Myth No. 2: The US Already Has the Greatest Health Care System in the World.

Infant mortality in the US is fourth worst among OECD countries - better only than Mexico, Turkey and the Slovak Republic.



Myth No. 3: There Is Less Poverty in the US Than Anywhere.

Child poverty in the US, at over 20 percent or one out of every five kids, is double the average of the 30 OECD countries.



Myth No. 4: The US Is Generous in Its Treatment of Families With Children.

The US ranks in the bottom half of countries in terms of financial benefits for families with children. Over half of the 30 OECD countries pay families with children cash benefits regardless of the income of the family. Some among those countries (e.g. Austria, France and Germany) pay additional benefits if the family is low income or one of the parents is unemployed.



Myth No. 5: The US Is Very Supportive of Its Workers.

The US gives no paid leave for working mothers having children. Every single one of the other 30 OECD countries has some form of paid leave. The US ranks dead last in this. Over two-thirds of the countries give some form of paid paternity leave. The US also gives no paid leave for fathers.



Myth No. 6: Poor People Have More Chance of Becoming Rich in the US Than Anywhere Else.

Social mobility (how children move up or down the economic ladder in comparison with their parents) in earnings, wages and education tends to be easier in Australia, Canada and Nordic countries like Denmark, Norway and Finland, than in the US. That means more of the rich stay rich and more of the poor stay poor here in the US.



Myth No. 7: The US Spends Generously on Public Education.

In terms of spending for public education, the US is just about average among the 30 countries of the OECD. [9] Educational achievement of US children, however, is seventh worst in the OECD. [10] On public spending for childcare and early education, the US is in the bottom third.



Myth No. 8: The US Government Is Redistributing Income From the Rich to the Poor.

There is little redistribution of income by government in the US in part because spending on social benefits like unemployment and family benefits is so low. Of the 30 countries in the OECD, only in Korea is the impact of governmental spending lower.



Myth No. 9: The US Generously Gives Foreign Aid to Countries Across the World.

The US gives the smallest percentage of aid of any of the developed countries in the OECD. In 2007, the US was tied for last with Greece. In 2008, we were tied for last with Japan

archive.truthout.org...

None of this stuff actually has anything to do with socialism anyway but you can see that America is not even verging on what most Americans think socialism is.

Americans are living the American Nightmare. Its no dream.

It is funny that Americans talk so much about their 'welfare system' when their 'welfare system' is terrible. And they want to cut it? Crazy. They better build some more jails then.

The United States of America is an oligarchy. Plain and simple. To even mention America and socialism in the same sentence feels wrong.

America is an oligarchy.
edit on 4-9-2012 by freemarketsocialist because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-9-2012 by freemarketsocialist because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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Nice to have you back Germanicus.
I missed your Anti American rants.


I tease you but you are correct about it being the American Nightmare. Lately that seems to sum it up quite nicely. Not really much I can argue with you about it. I think "socialism" is an overused word at this point myself but it is what it is.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
Nice to have you back Germanicus.
I missed your Anti American rants.


I tease you but you are correct about it being the American Nightmare. Lately that seems to sum it up quite nicely. Not really much I can argue with you about it. I think "socialism" is an overused word at this point myself but it is what it is.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

That guy seemed a little off kilter.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 03:12 AM
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For the far right, if its not people on a pike mad max anarchy, its socialism as of late.

Crazyness.

List is spot on. And very pro-american actually. before repairs are made, we must know where the repairs are needed.

The concept is that USA is "the best" (not sure at what).

At this rate, we will be the best at being the worst. Now then, lets have all sides sit down and have a nice intellectual discussion on these issues and how to fix em
-laughs-



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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And what most Americans think is socialism is actually liberalism, and no, liberalism is not socialism.

Liberalism was an invention of the right, not the left. That is why the government is simply two sides of the same coin. There is no socialism, or even left-wing, in the government. The left and right definition in modern politics are meaningless. We simply have a corporate dictatorship. Politics is a meaningless soap opera to keep us in the dark.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
And what most Americans think is socialism is actually liberalism, and no, liberalism is not socialism.

Liberalism was an invention of the right, not the left. That is why the government is simply two sides of the same coin. There is no socialism, or even left-wing, in the government. The left and right definition in modern politics are meaningless. We simply have a corporate dictatorship. Politics is a meaningless soap opera to keep us in the dark.


Yeah.

It does seem the same across the world hey?

Like the Labour Party in England is not left.

The Labor Party in Australia is not left.

The socialists of Europe are hardly socialists.

Its quite depressing.

Do you like Syriza? They seem close.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
Like the Labour Party in England is not left.


What's even worse is, don't know about the Aus one, but the British Labour Party did start out as a full workers party, but like anything with politics it got corrupted to the point it became nothing but a liberal party.

WWII played the most part in that as it decimated the working class, and they never recovered the solidarity of pre-war times. Instead being pushed toward social climbing, and keeping up with the jones's. No longer a threat to the social order. The working class lost it's voice.


Do you like Syriza? They seem close.


That's the Greek coalition? Haven't really looked into it to be honest but I will, so thanks for mentioning it.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


One thing isn't a myth about socialism




posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


#8... in 2010 the US spent $650 BILLION DOLLARS on entitlement programs. Where do you think that money came from?? It was plundered from the producer class and given to the receipient class aka non-producers. This is textbook Marxist redistribution of wealth... to call it anything else is absurd and intellectually dishonest.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


One thing isn't a myth about socialism




This is also a perfect example of how insurance works!

Never could understand why I have to pay "protection", so somebody else could get a new car, or house for that matter....

But you NEVER hear anybody beotchin' about THAT, DO you?



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


One thing isn't a myth about socialism


That is NOT socialism, that is liberalism. So yes it is a myth.

Socialism is not hand-outs, or charity, or free stuff from a government. Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. No government is necessary for socialism.

"Anarchism is stateless socialism". Mikhail Bakunin

"Convinced that freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice and that Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality". Mikhail Bakunin

"All anarchists are socialists, but not all socialists are anarchists". Mikhail Bakunin

"Liberalism is not socialism and never will be" Winston Churchill

Socialism is not a political doctrine, it is an economic system. It can be either libertarian (anarchist) or it can have a state system. But unless the workers own the means of production it is not socialism.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
[don't know about the Aus one


The Australian labor party seemed to start out left wing, and most of its members still believe this and look nostalgically upon the past shearers strikes and the first meeting under the tree of knowledge. But in actual fact the labor party was always meant to be a capitalist party defending the interests of big business. They just needed to appeal to the working class so they wouldn't go off and join the communist party or lead their own strikes or anything. So they set up the labor party as a means to trap most working class people and then further control (in conjunction with the union bureaucracy) their ability to take industrial action. It has been very successful, workers still believe in the ALP despite all of their bad policy.



That's the Greek coalition? Haven't really looked into it to be honest but I will, so thanks for mentioning it.


I'd definitely recommended taking a look. SYRIZA is a genuine left wing party, a rare thing to see and even more rare to see them almost winning the election (if only the communist party had joined then).

It's been interesting to see how the response to crisis in Greece has been a radicalization and major shift to the left of politics. They are genuinely fed up with capitalism, a trend we can only hope will take hold here in the west when our major economic collapse happens.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


#8... in 2010 the US spent $650 BILLION DOLLARS on entitlement programs. Where do you think that money came from?? It was plundered from the producer class and given to the receipient class aka non-producers. This is textbook Marxist redistribution of wealth... to call it anything else is absurd and intellectually dishonest.


#9 The US spent about 50 billion on welfare
and 90+ billion on corporate welfare.

thinkbynumbers.org...
edit on 4-9-2012 by sealing because: Link



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Nice Orwell quote... it goes well with this one:


Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it.
George Orwell



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


You seem to be against socialism, yet you quote a socialist for your sig?


I have got to struggle against that, just as I have got to struggle against castor oil, rubber truncheons and concentration camps. And the only regime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist regime. If Fascism triumphs I am finished as a writer — that is to say, finished in my only effective capacity. That of itself would be a sufficient reason for joining a Socialist party.

It is not possible for any thinking person to live in such a society as our own without wanting to change it. For perhaps ten years past I have had some grasp of the real nature of capitalist society. I have seen British imperialism at work in Burma, and I have seen something of the effects of poverty and unemployment in Britain. In so far as I have struggle against the system, it has been mainly by writing books which I hoped would influence the reading public. I shall continue to do that, of course, but at a moment like the present writing books is not enough. The tempo of events is quickening; the dangers which once seemed a generation distant are staring us in the face. One has got to be actively a Socialist, not merely sympathetic to Socialism, or one plays into the hands of our always-active enemies. George Orwell, from 'Why I Joined the Independent Labour Party', 1938



“a Socialist United States of Europe seems to me the only worth-while political objective today George Orwell


George Orwell Toward European Unity

edit on 9/4/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
You seem to be against socialism, yet you quote a socialist for your sig?


I'm quite possibly more 'socialist' than you are.

What I do object to however is the inefficiency of many socialists governments who throw other people's money at social problems.

For instance, in the UK the labor government was spending 50% of the country's GDP. Such figures are surely unsustainable?

It could be charged that socialists governments (in a Western European setting) have proven themselves more interested in creating clients dependent on the state and their own party rather than trying to create real economic opportunities for people at the bottom of society.



edit on 5-9-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by IrVulture

This is also a perfect example of how insurance works!

Never could understand why I have to pay "protection", so somebody else could get a new car, or house for that matter....

But you NEVER hear anybody beotchin' about THAT, DO you?


While I agree with you in principle, it is worth bearing in mind that people do not choose to buy 'government insurance'.

The law forces them to do so through the coercion of the state. Consequently, much money is wasted and siphoned off for politicians' pet projects. The needy actually end up with relatively little.

Politicians are out for themselves and sadly socialism is often just another philosophy perverted to get money out of our pockets into theirs.


edit on 5-9-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
I'm quite possibly more 'socialist' than you are.


What socialist governments? There is no such thing as a socialist government. Socialism is an economic system, and doesn't even require government. Obviously you are not a socialist.

European governments are liberal for sure, but not socialist.

edit on 9/5/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by OptimusSubprime
 


Out of curiosity, these entitlement programs.

Can you give me examples of the largest entitlement programs that were part of that 650?



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by IrVulture
 


There are some of us who do. We are just too few with no real power and nobody else cares and they aren't going to listen ebcause there's too much money involved.






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