16 TRILLION on the DNC's Big Tuesday, page 4

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reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 07:09 PM by XPLodER

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by XPLodER

There is a clear difference........between just loving math........

and understanding economics and how they work.........thats why there are economists and mathematicians....... clearly two totally different professions man.......

from your response i can tell you watched the vid

you can be a mathematician without being an economist,
BUT
you cant be an economist without being a mathematician

xploder

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 11:01 PM by wascurious

Originally posted by IAMTAT

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by IAMTAT
IT'S OFFICIAL:
THE U.S. DEBT JUST PASSED 16 TRILLION DOLLARS 5 MINUTES AGO!...and counting...

AND...what are the democrats currently talking about at the DNC?...FREE Birth Control!!!
edit on 4-9-2012 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)

We don't have money for more free candy for everyone.

-----------
Juan Williams already gave Bill O'Reilly the bad news.

If Juan was walking down the street in Washington DC and Sandra Fluke ran up

and asked for $100 to pay for her birth control for 6 months, Juan would say "No."

I wonder if they'll drop red, white & blue inflated condoms after Fluke speaks at the DNC?

Why?
I do not get the connection between Fluke and condoms?
I did not get it when Oreilly made the joke before you stole it either.

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 11:09 PM by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by MidnightTide

ok a solution,
usery, or compounding interest is the problem, as debt based money attracts interest that has an exponential function.

no interest no exponential expansion of debt.

xploder

Technically debt is not an exponential function. You are viewing it in the wrong way. The FED and all its charter banks are THE HOUSE, much like gambling in any casino. The private central bank takes the first cut, then the commercial bank takes the second cut.

You play blackjack and regardless who wins "the hand" the dealer gets a 5% cut. This way the casino always makes money. Similarly the bankers always make money because they are NOT affilliated with the government or general population.

The government gets money from taxation and if it needs more then it issues treasury bonds to investors, on the backs of the tax payer FOOLS! If the central bank was public and the commercial banks were private that means less taxation would be necessary because the government would be collecting "a cut" from the commercial banks. If both central and commercial banks were public it means taxation would be extremely low especially if it was combined with moderate tariffs.

Under the current system we pay so many taxes JUST FOR INTEREST TO THE BANKERS that trying to reverse the crisis would INDEED CAUSE A GLOBAL ABYSMAL DEPRESSION! The illuminati bankers know this and are USING the austerity crisis to consolidate whatever last resources they can get their hands on. They already stole all the gold ages ago.

edit on 4/9/12 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2012 @ 11:47 PM by nydsdan

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by IAMTAT

Great attitude. Let's just give up on reducing the national debt then (even though it's been reduced in the past)...and embrace hopelessness by reelecting Obama.

untill you can see past left right, you will always get screwed, obama romney makes no difference to the MATH

I will, however, give you credit (no pun intended) for actually managing to come out in support of Obama; it seems most dems seem to be ignoring the debt due to Obama's role in massively expanding it.

you have little understanding of debt expansion, 5 trillion under obama will be 11 trillion under the next pres "whoever" it is.

its a function of exponential expansion NOT WHO IS BOSS AT THE TIME

Oh, ...and ONE MORE THING:
In 2008 Obama stated that by the end of his first term, HE would CUT the national debt in half!
Was HE ignorant of the concept of exponential debt expansion...or merely lying to the American people in order to get elected?

to be clear i am not an obama or romney supporter,

but in an exponetial expansion of debt system,
to slow the expansion of debt causes a depresion,

NO ONE ALIVE TODAY PUT THIS IN MOTION,

obama is not a maths genius and would not understand as he is not an economist,

i cant comment much further on HIS promises except to say to "cut" spending now would "collapse" the economy, because of the SYSTEM,

i care little for politics, but you MUST understand the maths to make an informed statement,
on "whos to blame"

THE FED if your interested is to "blame" for debt based currency.

xploder

xploder, you just summed up exactly what I came in here to say. Left/Right politricks is being used against the People of the United States of America. The debt is a product of many generations of an unsustainable economic policy. I am afraid president by president we keep seeing "more of the same" because there might be a consensus that to fix the problem would be to collapse the entire global financial system and start anew.

This thread is likely to be derailed in some partisan flame-war anyway though. God forbid anybody look at the problem for what it is.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 06:24 AM by 02bmw76

Yet no one mentions the invisible elephant in the room that is approximately a couple of quadrillion dollars globally in derivatives. All, bets on the system, and many of the bets are based on failure for a profit.Talk about exponential growth. Our need to police the world instead of taking care of our own is sucking us dry like an unwanted leach. Paying people exorbitant salaries to manipulate the market vis-a-vis high speed trading, while producing nothing of true value to our nation is absolutely ridiculous. It's a glorified "bucket house". That coupled in with a failing economy all spell an unfriendly correction on the horizon. The biggest variable being another huge war we can't afford causing fuel prices to double, starting the explosion at our population's base level which could set some unpleasant actions by our disgruntled poor into motion. Our banking system is a farce, just as the Federal Reserve Bank is no more federal than Federal Express. Sadly, people will continue to spin their wheels in the mud of the propaganda known as the left/right paradigm. The correction is coming. Since 2007/08 all we have done is clear the tracks so that the train can keep rolling down the tracks to the brick wall at the end. The two party system supposedly backing us is hedging their bets on who will be in power when it happens, but either way, it will happen. I personally think that when people's savings and pensions go up in smoke we might get some unity as we go into survival mode. Not preparing for the inevitable is your biggest mistake, even if it means stocking up on food that is cheaper now than later. The system will self-correct once all the charades have been exhausted. The variable is Israel attacking Iran and dragging our sorry butts into the fray. That will speed things up as gas prices double. People blaming only the current administration for our republic's demise have not been paying close enough attention to the bigger picture that is the bankers in the pockets of the politicians. It's been clear for quite some time how the game is played in Washington. We are on an unsustainable path and the bigger they are the harder they'll fall. People will be on fire saying 2012 was a dud if the "financial economic bomb" hasn't gone off by then but 2013 should hold just as much to come to our surprise in my opinion.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 09:23 AM by morethanyou

Originally posted by IAMTAT
In 2008, Obama promised to cut the debt by half at the end of his first term...Instead...Obama INCREASED it by 1/3 (over 5 TRILLION DOLLARS)!...MORE than ANY president in U.S. history!
Why would anyone trust this guy...let alone vote for him to have four more years?
He hasn't EARNED another term.

You sir are100% right on the $.

To many promises and has not delivered anything. All the DEMS can do is blame Bush, impotent.

Oh BTW, just saying.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 09:52 AM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

I don't like Obama either, but I honestly think you are delusional if you think Romney can somehow fix this. I honestly don't think anyone could except for maybe Ron Paul because he has the right idea about the Federal Reserve. Even then, I doubt it's really possible to pay that debt. I'm guessing we won't. Somehow the U.S. will get out of paying it.

It's really not as bad as it seems.

The USA is not Greece and we are not Europe.

American Exceptionalism will save us again.

You should know it has been done before.

------------------

Remember the mess Jimmy Carter handed Ronald Reagan?

We recovered from that and we will recover from this.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 01:19 PM by GrimReaper86

reply to post by Eurisko2012

When? When was it done before? I'm pretty sure it's never been done before and that's one of the reasons the debt is so high in the first place. I could be wrong, I mean, I'm no expert on history but when have we had a national debt of astronomical proportions and then paid it off? I'm pretty sure that's never happened.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 01:26 PM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

When? When was it done before? I'm pretty sure it's never been done before and that's one of the reasons the debt is so high in the first place. I could be wrong, I mean, I'm no expert on history but when have we had a national debt of astronomical proportions and then paid it off? I'm pretty sure that's never happened.

The economy was worse back in 1979 - 1980.

Jimmy Carter screwed everything up. Back then we had a rotten economy and

no leadership. Ronald Reagan turned it around and gave us 16 million jobs in 8 years.

-----------
We did it before and we can do it again.

American Exceptionalism will save us again.

Small business growth is the key to getting the unemployment rate down to 4%.

During 2013 our economy will grow at 7%.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 02:04 PM by GrimReaper86

reply to post by Eurisko2012

Ok, your talking about two different things, Your talking about the recession that Reagan "fixed" and the post is talking about the national debt. The recession may have been "fixed" by Reagan which one would argue isn't true but he certainly didn't fix the national debt at all, in fact he probably made it worse.

"First of all, it wasn't Carter's bad economy. Carter inherited the mess from Nixon and Ford. When Carter came to power we already had unemployment, interest rates, and inflation all in the double digits. The Republicans succeeded in blaming it on Carter in the public's consciousness simply by repeating over and over that it was all Carter's fault, until the media picked it up and began repeating it for them. They're trying to do the same thing with Obama now.

Secondly, Reagan 'fixed' the economy by tripling the entire pre-existing national debt. Anyone can live high off the hog for a while if they don't mind going into serious debt. Well into his second term, Reagan was still cheerfully predicting that revenue boosts from his tax cuts would pay for the debt. There was a modest increase in revenue but it didn't even pay the interest on the new debt. Reagan was also helped, a little, by the collapse of OPEC and oil prices falling a bit."

I put that in quotes because it isn't originally sourced from me but I find it to be rather accurate.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 02:19 PM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

Ok, your talking about two different things, Your talking about the recession that Reagan "fixed" and the post is talking about the national debt. The recession may have been "fixed" by Reagan which one would argue isn't true but he certainly didn't fix the national debt at all, in fact he probably made it worse.

"First of all, it wasn't Carter's bad economy. Carter inherited the mess from Nixon and Ford. When Carter came to power we already had unemployment, interest rates, and inflation all in the double digits. The Republicans succeeded in blaming it on Carter in the public's consciousness simply by repeating over and over that it was all Carter's fault, until the media picked it up and began repeating it for them. They're trying to do the same thing with Obama now.

Secondly, Reagan 'fixed' the economy by tripling the entire pre-existing national debt. Anyone can live high off the hog for a while if they don't mind going into serious debt. Well into his second term, Reagan was still cheerfully predicting that revenue boosts from his tax cuts would pay for the debt. There was a modest increase in revenue but it didn't even pay the interest on the new debt. Reagan was also helped, a little, by the collapse of OPEC and oil prices falling a bit."

I put that in quotes because it isn't originally sourced from me but I find it to be rather accurate.

Well, with that reasoning no president will -ever- take responsibility for any bad economy.

Just blame others.

Ronald Reagan created 16 million jobs in 8 years!

----------------
Bill Clinton had 4 years with a surplus.

However, he didn't pay down the national debt.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 02:22 PM by GrimReaper86

reply to post by Eurisko2012

Ok, but I wasn't arguing about Clinton, and either way your avoiding the point. No president has or probably ever will fix the national debt. No matter who you vote for next election, it isn't going to go away even if we have more jobs.

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 02:30 PM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

Ok, but I wasn't arguing about Clinton, and either way your avoiding the point. No president has or probably ever will fix the national debt. No matter who you vote for next election, it isn't going to go away even if we have more jobs.

We will grow the GDP to $25 Trillion by the year 2020.

At the same time take the surpluses and pay down the national debt to $12 Trillion.

When that goal is reached then our Gross Debt to GDP ratio will fall below 50%.

- Not exactly a nightmare scenario. -

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 03:37 PM by GrimReaper86

reply to post by Eurisko2012

I still think your deluded. Good luck doing what you claim. Nothing ever works out that smoothly politically. Maybe if every politician followed the same plan but they don't, they all have their own agendas, many of which follow similar roads but in different vehicles. How do you think we're going to raise that GDP, huh?

reply posted on 5-9-2012 @ 04:53 PM by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

I don't like Obama either, but I honestly think you are delusional if you think Romney can somehow fix this. I honestly don't think anyone could except for maybe Ron Paul because he has the right idea about the Federal Reserve. Even then, I doubt it's really possible to pay that debt. I'm guessing we won't. Somehow the U.S. will get out of paying it.

It's really not as bad as it seems.

The USA is not Greece and we are not Europe.

American Exceptionalism will save us again.

You should know it has been done before.

------------------

Remember the mess Jimmy Carter handed Ronald Reagan?

We recovered from that and we will recover from this.

You are putting all the blame on the democrats in order to boost the republican party. Ronald Reagan was known for deregulation of the markets, leveraged buyouts and the star wars program. Maybe the first was good but the other two sucked. Leveraged buyouts made it too easy for companies to buy each other out with mostly borrowed money and the star wars program was a multi-trillion dollar waste of orbiting technology to supposedly strike down russian missles.

As for any debt crissis I think the whole idea is to shrink the economy with IMF measures so that some people and organisations can consolidate wealth and influence. For example argentina's debt was totally written off after years of hardship and greece's debt has been cut by at least 50 percent. The investors lost a ton of money but look at all the forceful legislation local governments had to agree to get the new loan installments to meet national responsibilities.

Things are not what they appear but *financial this and financial that* always take the headlines.

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 07:26 AM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

I still think your deluded. Good luck doing what you claim. Nothing ever works out that smoothly politically. Maybe if every politician followed the same plan but they don't, they all have their own agendas, many of which follow similar roads but in different vehicles. How do you think we're going to raise that GDP, huh?

I think it will look spectacular in the history books when we accomplish our goal of

reducing the Gross Debt to GDP ratio to less than 50% in only 8 years.

- USA is a strong economic superpower.-

--------

You know, i can already see the eyes of envy from nations in Europe.

Hey ! What's going on here?! The USA is growing like crazy with their free market

capitalism and American Exceptionalism !

We are still stuck in the mud with failed socialism, stagnation and crushing debt !!!

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 11:12 AM by GrimReaper86

reply to post by Eurisko2012

You completely ignored my question. HOW?! How are we to accomplish your unrealistic goal?

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 11:14 AM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

You completely ignored my question. HOW?! How are we to accomplish your unrealistic goal?

I'll explain November 7, 2012.

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 01:02 PM by GrimReaper86

reply to post by Eurisko2012

*bangs head against desk in annoyance*

You have such faith in your republican party don't you? Either you'll be completely right some how. (which I doubt) Or you're a completely deluded idiot giving faith to those those that will likely only hasten your demise. I doubt your claims significantly, especially because you can't answer my question (or at least you haven't), but I hope you're right. I hope we can fix everything in eight years. Truly, that would be amazing....

I hope you're right, and although I'm passionate about my thoughts regarding this, I hope you don't take my comments to be offensive. Despite your lack of resolution, your lack of answers, I have to admire your optimism.

edit on 6-9-2012 by GrimReaper86 because: your needed to be you're

reply posted on 6-9-2012 @ 01:56 PM by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by Eurisko2012

*bangs head against desk in annoyance*

You have such faith in your republican party don't you? Either you'll be completely right some how. (which I doubt) Or you're a completely deluded idiot giving faith to those those that will likely only hasten your demise. I doubt your claims significantly, especially because you can't answer my question (or at least you haven't), but I hope you're right. I hope we can fix everything in eight years. Truly, that would be amazing....

I hope you're right, and although I'm passionate about my thoughts regarding this, I hope you don't take my comments to be offensive. Despite your lack of resolution, your lack of answers, I have to admire your optimism.

edit on 6-9-2012 by GrimReaper86 because: your needed to be you're

I'll give you a clue.

Remember the Dot.com boom of the 1990s?

22 Million jobs were created. Clinton was at the right place at the right time.

Al Gore didn't invent the internet but Gore & Clinton took credit for it anyway.