When you become a God, will you use evil the way God does?

When you become a God, will you use evil the way God does?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I don’t know your view of evil or how you explain it but much of scriptures say that at some future in heaven, we will become as God and to me that would mean that we all inherit a new earth. Anything less would be less than what Satan has been given. Dominion over the earth. God would hardly give man less. I assume here that like humans, God would want his children to reach his level of thought and responsibilities and then some. God would then become God of Gods.

Believers, should have no problem imagining the scenario above and should be able to show why they would allow evil to exist on their own make believe world.

No definitive conclusion has ever been presented and accepted by any majority as to why God created and uses evil. To evolutionary theists, it must exist to further the survival of the fittest and what keeps man evolving. Without it we would face a greater evil. Extinction.

To some theists, it is to test us and weed out the unworthy or less fit. Yet many theists not believe in evolution even as God weeds out the less fit. Causing heavenly evolution, so to speak.

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality. To me, within evolution, evil is good. Somewhat the way a God would think. I would not get rid of it as I see it’s ultimate requirement and in that sense, evil is good as it serves the greater good. Evolution. Theistic evolutionists agree.

Free will is not a valid argument if we must do evil to survive. Evolution demands both evil/competition and good/cooperation.

Would you allow evil to exist on your fictitious world, like God or nature does here in our real world?

If yes, why would you keep and use evil?

If no, how would your world work if you did somehow get rid of evil?

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Regards
DL

If I were to be a God, I'd do the responsible thing and sit in silence until I became the post Alpha and Omega; nothingness. No suffering, no love, no happiness, no sorrow, no laughter, no tears, no joy, and no hate.

"From hence forth I become absolution, the finality of all things. The abstract nature of pre&post existence, the proclamation of self destruction. Behold, for I am naught"

-Me in 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years

Only then can true peace exist.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality.

Gnostic in what manner? You apparently don't believe in a Demiurge or anything of that nature...

would go for tea .... or maybe a nice holiday in bali ...
let the primitives sort their own problems .... thats why people have free will ...
far more interesting and fun things to tend to once such a state is attained ...

I would blink out all that have aided in the harming of any human, That would leave very few people, With one parting message, DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES or blink

I am not destined to be a God, so I could not answer your question.
However Tea and Bali does sound nice.

Examining the seemingly disparate concept of a loving God and the existence of cruelty, death, hunger, evil, etc was hard to integrate until I considered the concept of reincarnation.

Reincarnation was accepted in the Christian faith until the ecumenical council at Nicea. It makes sense to me that if we live multiple lives and therefore know that reincarnation is factual, it makes sense that we would make agreements in advance of birth, soul contracts, if you will. Some agree to play the roles of bad or "evil" persons so the others would be given the chance to choose a righteous path or fall into evil as well.

I believe that we agree to circumstances that lay at the bleeding edge of our ability to remember our life's purpose once we get here. Bad guys get so into their roles so much that they lose the ability to hear the small still voice in the back of their mind. The righteous get so bummed out they start drinking and drugging and both groups pick up kArma.

I'd say God has it perfect just how it's done here and I wouldn't change a damn thing. Love and kisses!

Originally posted by Greatest I am
As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality.

lol, is that what you've finally settled on? You do realize the fundamental error in Gnostic Christianity, right? Reconciling Christ's Jewish ethnicity and support of Judaic scripture and law with Greek duality? How have you worked that out?

Do you know what the gnosis is that the original Christian Gnostics were on about? What is your interpretation of the Treatise on Resurrection?

Actually if I was a god I wouldn't advertise and I wouldn't want people worshiping me. I'd go somewhere out of the way and stay away from humanity.

I don't relish the thought of people killing in my name like the Christian god does. I don't want an Inquisition in my name forcing people to convert at the point of a sword.

I believe in real free will and liberty, not the made up stuff that Christianity has to offer.

Basically I'm like the Federation of Star Trek with it's prime directive to not interfere with developing cultures. I believe in letting them develop on their own.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Would you allow evil to exist on your fictitious world, like God or nature does here in our real world?

If yes, why would you keep and use evil?

If no, how would your world work if you did somehow get rid of evil?

Remember God would eventually rid the world of evil in the end.

Evil was not of God's intent but of Free Will and life.

Without free will, we would all be like machines, immutable, bound by logic, never evolving, and dead. There won't be wars, conflicts, we would not suffer/experience pain, but we would not also appreciate our existence. We would be walking dead men and women in essence.

Out of Free Will comes Life and Destruction (Evil). Creation has no purpose if there's no life to experience it.

You have only two choices to create an evil-free world:

1. Make everything bound to logic. This world is very similar to walking inside a factory run by robots!

2. Give everything free will. Preserve only those who would not exploit others but serve others selflessly, cheerfully without expecting compensation, those who would rescue others in distress, those who would care for other's well being above oneself, those would NOT seek to promote themselves but to promote others who are less. Then delete everything else that doesn't fall under those category.

If you ask me to create the perfect humanoid robot, that's how I'm gonna do it. Create a virtual environment for it, like 'The Matrix' in the movie. The robot will have millions/billions of template copies. It will be given free will and be allowed to evolve in this virtual environment.

The templates that have chosen to 'live righteously' to the bitter end, even costing their virtual lives will be copied to the real robotic body, else will be deleted.

I'll give you a robot that lives, not a zombie!

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Basically I'm like the Federation of Star Trek with it's prime directive to not interfere with developing cultures. I believe in letting them develop on their own.

So you're Lawful Neutral? Ironic, so am I, lol.



Which is exactly what Christianity says about the relationship of God to humanity, regardless of what you've been told. God leaves us alone to sort things out.

reply to post by adjensen


Not according to guys like Jerry Falwell and Fred Phelps.

But I am not basing all Christians on them.

Just the bad ones who love to misuse God's words to hurt people.

Unfortunately there are far too many of them and far too many ways of misusing his word.

But it's also not based on them.

God is not always a kind and loving God. Either in OT or NT. God has a very cruel streak to him.

Such as allowing Noah to curse his son Ham for looking upon his father naked. Did you know that curse actually did not affect Ham but affected his son Canaan? How is that not a cruel thing to do, to hold a child responsible for the acts of their parents? Especially over something trivial as seeing someone naked.

And there are passages in the Bible where he is glad to have infants dashed upon the rock. Such as in psalm 137.

So please, don't tell that God is a kind and loving God. He can be at times, but he has a cruel streak in him that is not to be trifled with.


Oh, and actually I'm like chaotic good. I place little value in law on social rules and am a non-conformist at heart.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

Such as allowing Noah to curse his son Ham for looking upon his father naked. Did you know that curse actually did not affect Ham but affected his son Canaan? How is that not a cruel thing to do, to hold a child responsible for the acts of their parents? Especially over something trivial as seeing someone naked.

So you're a Fundamentalist, then? Literal believer in the Bible? You'll have to wait for a Fundamentalist response, sorry (but don't worry, they have pretty good ones.)

No, I'm not a Fundamentalist, I take a holistic view of the Bible.

What is the overall message of the Bible? It's a lot closer to my view (and even the Fundamentalists's view, in fact,) than it is of yours.

If your personal perspective of the Biblical message is in conflict with the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, I would suggest that your perspective is non-Biblical, and you should look to another text (I'd suggest the Myths of Babylonia and Assyria as your leaping off point).

I am not a fundamentalist.

Right now i'm still trying to figure out where I fit.

I have a lot of hostility towards Christians because of some of my personal (and very negative) experiences. It's because of that hostility I want nothing to do with them and will not call myself a Christian.

But one of my mottos is: do what thou wilt at no harm to others shall be the whole of the law.

It doesn't matter to me what you believe.

It does matter to a fundamentalist. Because they value conformity and want to bully all people into submission and believing the same things.Far too many Christians are nothing more than bullies and control freaks and will use every dirty trick in the book to force people to submit to them, and I do mean to them and not to God.

I do not.

I always think for myself, I do examine things as much as I can before coming to a conclusion, and I never just blindly accept things just on somebody else's whim. I do not blindly follow anything.

My big problem is I'm not very good at expressing myself in a verbose manner. I am a minimalist and prefer to keep things simple.

Edit:

And I believe most of the Bible is simply allegorical to illustrate the points and tenets of Christianity, and not literal.

If I was a god, evil would not exist, therefore no demons and devils and no suffering. Problem solved.

As for 'free-will'. People will have this choice to choose from: "either choose good or choose even BETTER" - there you go - a free will that does not cause suffering.

I'd like to say I wouldn't allow evil.

But that would be like watching a continual television show without any dramatic tension for eternity.

I'd allow some minor dramas, but not really evil.

I recall reading a book by Elisabeth Klarer, a South African woman who supposedly courted an alien and lived on his planet for four months before delivering their hybrid baby.
en.wikipedia.org...

That planet, whether imaginary or not, sounded like a non-evil place I'd run.
Even the predatory animals lived on another planet, and all the animals were peaceful (which may seem a bit ecologically unsound to us).

reply to post by Greatest I am


Ill never become a god, but for argument's sake lets say I would.. yes, I would use evil the same way God does. What the enemy means for evil I will use for good.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
If I were to be a God, I'd do the responsible thing and sit in silence until I became the post Alpha and Omega; nothingness. No suffering, no love, no happiness, no sorrow, no laughter, no tears, no joy, and no hate.

"From hence forth I become absolution, the finality of all things. The abstract nature of pre&post existence, the proclamation of self destruction. Behold, for I am naught"

-Me in 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years

Only then can true peace exist.

Peace in nothingness. I agree.

There would be nothing in nothingness. One could call that peace I guess.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Maroboduus

Originally posted by Greatest I am
As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality.

Gnostic in what manner? You apparently don't believe in a Demiurge or anything of that nature...

That is because I recognise that all scriptures were written to stimulate discussions and dialogs. Not to point to any one God.

All Gods should be thought of as myths until one has an actual apotheosis.

You should also remember that there were as many varied Gnostic schools in the old days as there are Christian cults today. Beliefs varied but it is fairly easy to see from even the Gnostic gospels that they were writing myths. Not what they thought was real.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Maroboduus

Originally posted by Greatest I am
As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality.

Gnostic in what manner? You apparently don't believe in a Demiurge or anything of that nature...

Let me give you my anecdotal story.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL