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Who put anti-religious fighting words in Einstein's mouth?

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posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:01 PM

Originally posted by de_Genova

However, the claim can be made that rational pantheism is the same as atheism, meaning that the beliefs of atheists and rational pantheists have the same content, and that they differ only in terminology.

Thank you.

I am an atheist who supports ONENESS.

posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:05 PM
reply to post by eight bits

Go to the original source -- in this case it's:

I can read German (badly, I'll admit, but I can read it) and the exact text is: Das Wort Gott ist für mich nichts als Ausdruck und Produkt menschlicher Schwächen, die Bibel eine Sammlung ehrwürdiger aber doch reichlich primitiver Legenden. Keine noch so feinsinnige Auslegung kann (für mich) etwas daran ändern."

Which translates roughly to "the word of god is for me (phrase meaning "nothing more") than expression and product (of) human weakness, the Bible one collection of honorable but truly primitive legends." He goes on to identify himself as Jewish but also says "For me the unadulterated Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of primitive superstition."

So... go view the source (and the whole source) -- interesting letter.

posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:52 PM

So... go view the source (and the whole source)

Actually, I posted the link to the blog's resource page a few posts ago, so I've read the unabridged translation already

You seem to be in basic agreement with the later translations, those after the one attributed to Stambaugh (no "childish," no extra phrase after "primitive legends," and the word "unadulterated" actually is there) in the "headline" sentences.

So what about the first sentence of the second paragraph? Do you agree that it says that Gutkind's book was written in language inaccessible to Einstein?

And from Keine noch until "unadulterated," is that about the failure of refinements or sophisticated interpretations to change Einstein's mind about what he rejected in the second sentence? (In other words, the context of "unadulterated Jewish religion" is a recital of things that are both criticized in Gutkind's book beause they "water down" his ideal Judaism, and are just "sublimations" in Einstein's own theory of religious development.)

Doesn't his self-identification with the Jewish people come after the "For me the unadulterated ..." sentence? (It's not the context, it's the next thought.)

posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 02:12 AM
There's been an update out in the blogosphere,

In contrast with the uninspiring hype about the Einstein-Gutkind letter auction, something cool may be coming, from an organization that hasn't been a player so far.

The Albert Einstein Archives, at the Hebrew University in Jeursalem, which has a partnership with Caltech's Einstein Papers Project, will try to restore digitally the original 1954 "look" of the letter. The archives owns a photocopy (actually a copy of one) presumably from a copy made by Gutkind before he sold the letter in 1955. It's black and white and limited by the technology of its time.

Recently however, high definition color photos were made for the sale, and anybody can have them.

They show texture, and a very clear view of the current state of Einstein's script.The bad news is that it looks like it was stored negligently for a long time, and much of the paper has turned brown.

As modest as it is, the older picture may provide the information needed to correct the browning accurately, and perhaps refresh the ink impression. If so, then we would have a new standard image which complemented the paper original. With the latter, some privileged few could hold history in their hands, with the reconstruction, everybody could experience history come back to life.

Richard Dawkins has also recently added to his reporting on the auction with photos of the letter (the quality is better than the 2008 auction pictures, but not as high-def as the 2012 auction photos), the envelope it came in (don't laugh, things like that are important for document fanciers), and some poses of workers at the storage library handling the letter. Carefully.

Richard still features part of the seller's ad and its text (hmm, I wonder if his cooperation with publicity helped him get access to the otherwise unidentified facility to take his photos), and nothing that I found about the glaring translation problems that have been discussed elsewhere, both recently and years ago.
edit on 21-9-2012 by eight bits because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 08:59 AM
reply to post by eight bits

I'm glad to see that archivists will give this document the attention that it deserves. Hopefully, their restoration will be accompanied with a correct English translation, so that the misrepresentations have a clear point of refutation (though the blog you posted already does a fine job, I suspect that a University cite would be helpful for some.)

On a slightly irreverent note, I see that the seller of this document also auctions off women's underwear and that his holiness is out on tour, charging $650 to come kiss his... well, maybe he has a ring

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