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Frank Turek: Universe out of nothing with great precision.

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posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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I recently watched the debate between Christopher Hitchins and Frank Turek on 'Does God Exist' (Great debate!). For evidence of a god, Turek claimed that the universe was made with great precision. Turek also mentioned how if gravity was even slightly weaker or stronger, we wouldn't exist. He was implying that the universe was specifically and deliberately designed for us humans to exist; at least that's what I got out of it. Seeing as I've had a few days to mull this over, I'd like to address it now. Don't worry, I did a search here and this specific topic has not been brought up.

Let's say a cave naturally formed on earth a few billion years ago, with the mouth of the cave completely sealed. It has never been discovered and to this day remains untouched. I asked myself what might happen in that cave, and what life forms might grow there. The only answer I can come up with is that whatever could happen in that cave would be solely because of the environment in the cave. And the only life forms that could grow would be, again, solely because of the environment within the cave.

If life in the cave could have evolved some kind of intelligence, it too might come to the conclusion that the cave environment was perfectly designed for life to grow there. So, if we can all agree that the creation of the cave was a completely random event, why would the creation of the universe be any different?

All opinions welcome.







posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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With you 100%, Ayn Rand says it in a great way. You might enjoy this video if you havent seen it

Ayn Rand - Faith vs Reason




posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Your question comes awfully close to the tone of a "What if?" query, and those generally get ridiculous the further the discussion carries on. However, you raise an interesting point. The fact is, according to genetic research, genetic material does not INCREASE the amount of data it possesses. It invariably decays, rather than incorporating random bits of fresh data to spawn a genetically evolved branch that carries on in a similar manner.

Why is it that humans are the only ones who are intelligent, to the point of actually changing the world to suit ourselves, and no other species has come even close to achieving that kind of ability? Surely if the monkeys could do it, the dogs could grow into a Chewbacca-esque species capable of speech and textile manipulation, or the birds would become something resembling an angel with an, erm, interesting skin condition.

Has anyone thought of this?



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by CesarO
With you 100%, Ayn Rand says it in a great way. You might enjoy this video if you havent seen it

Ayn Rand - Faith vs Reason



I've heard her name several times, but never got around to checking her out. I will now. Thanks!



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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Pure and absolute non-existence is self-annihilating. The instant any consciousness turns to consider it, non-existence by definition becomes violated as an existence within that consciousness. Non-existence is converted into existing.

Omnipresence has this problem. Omnipresence is NOT such if It does not exist absolutely everywhere, even inside absolute non-existence. The result of the "effort" (kinetic) to "go there" is the One infinitesimality, the Singularity, which is infinite spherical division and substraction of Itself.
edit on 2-9-2012 by tkwasny because: typo fix



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I would ask how life in the cave could have begun in the first place?

We learned about a science experiment in HS science. Where early sailors would seal their meat stores but maggots would still infest them. So "scientists" of the day proposed that the maggots spontaneous came into existance. Now a days we know that's silliness, if we put meat in a vacuum sealed bag no maggots will form.

Why would life on this planet, or in the cave, be any different? What causes some cells to be "alive" and reproduce like the ones in our body. And some, say in my table, to not self replicate? I think there are more forces at work than we can comprehend quiet yet...



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by IsThisThingBugged
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I would ask how life in the cave could have begun in the first place?

We learned about a science experiment in HS science. Where early sailors would seal their meat stores but maggots would still infest them. So "scientists" of the day proposed that the maggots spontaneous came into existance. Now a days we know that's silliness, if we put meat in a vacuum sealed bag no maggots will form.

Why would life on this planet, or in the cave, be any different? What causes some cells to be "alive" and reproduce like the ones in our body. And some, say in my table, to not self replicate? I think there are more forces at work than we can comprehend quiet yet...


My issue was only in refuting Turek's claim that the universe was designed by a creator with the specific intention for us to appear. I think I did that. Just like, if your kitchen sink leaks into the cabinet below, it draws bugs to it. But, you didn't intentionally make it wet in order to draw the bugs.

I dunno, maybe I suck at explaining this. (shrugs)



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I think asking if the conditions on earth were made specifically for us is a valid question. But the universe at large is uninhabitable for humans... Seems like a lot space for just us.





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