Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?

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posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
Here are the stats:

Unemployment: 7.8% then, 8.3% now
Median income: $54,983 then, $50,964 now
Gas prices: $1.85 per gallon then, $3.78 now
National debt: $10.6 trillion then, $15.9 trillion now

Are Americans better off? Obama aides won't say
By BEN FELLER and DAVID ESPO | Associated Press
news.yahoo.com...


These are such childish and misleading numbers. Your numbers likely reflect the end of 2008. No president takes office until the next year and then nothing he does has ANY effect for quite a few months. This is why all educated and non-partisan groups use a metric that, for numbers sake, starts in near the middle of the new president's first term. They do this no matter the party of the president. Only the liars and partisans so blatantly mislead like this...and only the ignorant believe them. You insult readers and your fellow Americans when you post lies like this.

How about we try a few facts. Here's a good chart. Notice an undeniable trend? Looks to me like a reversal of disaster under Bush. Keep on scrolling right.



How about we look at gas prices. You cherry-picked a date. Every number cruncher will tell you the ONLY reason to do that is to mislead the reader. The ONLY way to accurate present this is statistical trend over time. Like this:



Notice how high they went during Bush's term? That said, saying gasoline prices are the fault of the president is ridiculous and NO person of integrity uses this metric. Gas prices are driven today by speculation, you know, one of those unregulated games on the commodities market -- or as the Right likes to call these sorts of things: "financial innovations."

Now let's continue this lie countering exercise by looking at the debt and the source of it. This is the picture that should help the fact impaired:



Clearly it was Bush's gross fiscal delinquency that exploded the debt and forms the largest bulk of its continued explosion.

Now let's tackle your last lie by omission. Nice try once again taking a snapshot of 2 dates. That's about as honest as saying Hitler did not kill 6 million Jews by pulling a number of dead from a date from 1938 as evidence. Once again, let's look at the facts HONESTLY, without your BS sophomoric manipulation. This is from the U.S. Census Bureau:



An honest person will note median household income has been under great pressure since the late 1990s, and the time Glass-Steagall was reversed and the Great American Rape began. To assign that to Obama is the most disingenuous of fact frauds.

In closing, the very best quote to rebuke the "Are you better off?" little game the Right wants to play is from Chris Matthews the other day:
""To leave this country in hell and now claim it isn't heaven."

Go pound sand. I SOOO beyond sick of the abject, blatant, insincere, disingenuous, insulting and manipulative lies on the Right this cycle. You freaks would embarrass Goebbels.

Rail all you want back about me some sort of liberal Obama lover. That, of course, is a lie. What I am is an honest American who refuses to be insulted or played by a bunch of science denying, pathelogical liars on today's Right. For you people under 30, there was a time when this crap did not happen, not to this scale and not with such blatancy and not so disproportional from one side. And these people are NOT Republicans, they are Christo-fascists -- the bastion of the most ignorant Americans alive -- who have usurped what once was a viable party.

Even as recent as the mid-90s when Gingrich was the Speaker under a GOP House and a Democratic president the parties were pretty darned partisan. But even then, they were able to work together on substantial matters like Welfare reform, vs. a literal total refusal by today's Right to engage on ANYTHING. And back then, partisan as it was, evidenced by the GOP shutting down the government, the then GOP would NEVER had pulled the stunt this crew did in summer 2011 when they held the Nation's credit worthiness hostage by refusing to increase the debt ceiling even though they'd raised it repeatedly as a simple matter of course many, many times under Bush. In other words, the ONLY reason they did not had zero to do with principle, zero to do with conviction and 100% everything to do with Obama being in office.
edit on 3-9-2012 by pajoly because: arghh




posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 



Originally posted by RELDDIR
Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?


Me personally? A little bit, yes. Our taxes were a little lower and we were able to pay off our house.

But I think a fair question would be:
"Are you better off now than you would have been under four years of McCain and the continued Republican policies"?

These policies being: lifting regulations on banks and corporations, taxing the middle class, tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%.

And my answer is a resounding YES!

I mostly hear this question by anti-Obama folks. It seems to me that their mindset is to think of yourself and how much better off YOU are, not necessarily the country as a whole. I think of ALL the people in this country who have been positively affected by Obama's policies, knowing that many ARE better off, and to me, that means the country is better off.

If the banks had been allowed to fail and the auto industry was left to "go bankrupt" (as it would have been in a Romney presidency) we would be in TERRIBLE shape as a country. The most elite wouldn't be affected, but for the vast majority of people, I have NO doubt I voted for the right person and will again, this year.
edit on 9/3/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 


Yes!

We have change!

2 Quarters, 1 Dime, 2 Nickles and 3 Pennies left................



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 




PURE CRAP!


Thanks for proving my point. That's your answer when confronted by facts. Fail.

But, alas, I expect that from a group who:
1. Says openly that facts won't govern their campaign.
2. You largest state group wants to amend curriculum to remove all critical thinking

I'd say those two things completely calls in to question everything the Right does and will claim this cycle. It is a shame the American people must, because of their own words, start with the assumption that the GOP is lying to you. How proud we are of what we've become.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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financially? No. But emotionally and physically yes... I have learned a lot about myself in the last four years. The last four years have been the most financially difficult times of my life. I was on my way to making a very decent living. I had my own business. Things were great. Then it all fell apart almost overnight. My wife and I ended up homeless. But I also think the last four years have been the best years of my life so far. I have never had so much fun and joy of life. Now I am back to work... I am making a little more than half of what I used to make. I am working longer hours than I ever had too. If I had too chose I would choose broke and happy over rich and miserable.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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for me the answer is yes.4 years ago when the stock market was spiraling down the plant that i work at started to layoff bigtime.I was actually scared for the first time in 19 yrs of loosing my job.Now they have hired everyone back and increased in jobs so my answer is yes.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 


I am, but it's also a career high. l
the last 2 years in particular have been great. hoping for another dozen.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Ha ha, this makes me laugh. No.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
Here are the stats:

Unemployment: 7.8% then, 8.3% now
Median income: $54,983 then, $50,964 now
Gas prices: $1.85 per gallon then, $3.78 now
National debt: $10.6 trillion then, $15.9 trillion now

Are Americans better off? Obama aides won't say
By BEN FELLER and DAVID ESPO | Associated Press
news.yahoo.com...


Don't forget the "official' employment rate doesn't take into consideration people that have completely given up on looking for work (I was just about there and thankfully am back to my area of expertise - will never take a job for granted again).

REAL unemployment is more like 15%. That's 15% of the population who can't take a vacation, boosting tourism. 15% of the country who can't buy a large durable good like a refrigerator or a car. 15% of people who don't take a Saturday and go to the mall, visiting several stores and spending a few hundred bucks.

The left has no plan other than attacking their opponent. It's been proven that we cannot spend our way to a healthy recovery. Many analysts forecast a second recession (worse than the first) with 4 more years of this lack of real leadership. Continuing to print money 24/7 is going to lead to inflation and most likely hyperinflation. Ask the pre-Hitler Germans how hyperinflation worked out for them.

Sure you can argue all politicians are bought and paid for. You can even make an argument "there's no difference" but in this election there is. Ron Paul is what we needed but if Romney is what we are stuck with, at least we won't all be in soup lines. I mean, to call this POTUS successful is to ignore reality.
edit on 3-9-2012 by flashtrum because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-9-2012 by flashtrum because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by crazyguy2012
financially? No. But emotionally and physically yes... I have learned a lot about myself in the last four years. The last four years have been the most financially difficult times of my life. I was on my way to making a very decent living. I had my own business. Things were great. Then it all fell apart almost overnight. My wife and I ended up homeless. But I also think the last four years have been the best years of my life so far. I have never had so much fun and joy of life. Now I am back to work... I am making a little more than half of what I used to make. I am working longer hours than I ever had too. If I had too chose I would choose broke and happy over rich and miserable.


So, bad times are good for YOU?



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
Here are the stats:

Unemployment: 7.8% then, 8.3% now
Median income: $54,983 then, $50,964 now
Gas prices: $1.85 per gallon then, $3.78 now
National debt: $10.6 trillion then, $15.9 trillion now

Are Americans better off? Obama aides won't say
By BEN FELLER and DAVID ESPO | Associated Press
news.yahoo.com...


The recession already started before Obama took office. My income has increased 22.5% over the last five years. Gas prices you listed are not accurate. Yes when bush left office they were 1.85 but six months before that they were about the same as they are now. it's because of the economy. Thats why gas dropped so much in the last six months of Bush's term. Bush turned a surplus into four trillion in debt himself.

Look it didn't matter who was elected in 2008. McCain wouldn't have been able to change what happened. In fact he probably would have made it worse actually because he would have not did the stimulus and unemployment would have been much worse. It took 12 years and a world war to get out of the great depression and people thought Obama could do it in four years. All I know is my life has been so much better with Obama in office than when bush was but that's because I'm union and we get paid like we should, instead of companies cutting pay.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by RELDDIR
 




PURE CRAP!


Thanks for proving my point. That's your answer when confronted by facts. Fail.

But, alas, I expect that from a group who:
1. Says openly that facts won't govern their campaign.
2. You largest state group wants to amend curriculum to remove all critical thinking

I'd say those two things completely calls in to question everything the Right does and will claim this cycle. It is a shame the American people must, because of their own words, start with the assumption that the GOP is lying to you. How proud we are of what we've become.


Actually, it was easy to come to the conclusion that Obama is the liar. He claimed that his health care overhaul would cost us nothing. Ha ha ha! What suckers most people are. The CBO estimates it will cost 1.8 trillion over the next decade. He also raided the entitlement program he claims to want to save - by keeping the status quo.

Only one party has actually put forward a plan. The other is too busy attacking people that don't agree with them.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 

Negative in fact I've seen a steady decline every four years for the past thirty.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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Not better for me. Not at all. I went from living in an 800/mth apartment, with money to spare to being on food stamps, living in housing and not finding work anywhere for a few years. Even when something job wise 'comes up', it falls through at the end.


So nope. Not better at all. Zero income.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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The best line of the week. It basically, but more eloquently, makes my case about the pathological nature of the Right today.


Lying has become so ingrained into the conservatives’ national dialogue that they are now dangerously demagogic or, worse, severely unhinged. Blind rage at the election of Barack Obama has wrecked a once great political party. Its leaders have made so many deals with the devil in their almost pathological obsession with unseating Obama that they have pushed the GOP into its own version of political hell – unable to speak truths to their now-rabid and conspiracy-addled base and unable to right the party back onto a path of responsibility.


The author is Kurt Eichenwald, a writer at Vanity Fair.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Actually, YES, I am better off than I was 4 years ago.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?

No I am not better off in fact the opposite under 8 years of Bush I had more money in my pocket than when the current dude got elected, and the cash in my pocket has decreased with every passing day.

Sure some people will claim they are "doing just fine" of course they are since "most" of them are receiving government assistance like:


One in six Americans is receiving help from the government, just as fiscal austerity threatens to reduce some of that aid


money.cnn.com...

Today:


A record one in six Americans is on Medicaid, the government's health program for the poor, according to USA Today. And Medicaid is just one of several government anti-poverty programs that have seen large increases in caseloads and in costs.



So it's perhaps unsurprising that more than 50 million Americans are now on Medicaid, up by at least 7 million people, or 17% since the recession began in December 2007, USA Today's research shows. Also not surprising is the fact that the federal government's outlays on Medicaid jumped 36% in the past two years to $273 billion.


www.dailyfinance.com...


t is just getting sad now. In April the number of people not in the labor force rose by a whopping 522,000 from 87,897,000 to 88,419,000. This is the highest on record. The flip side, and the reason why the unemployment dropped to 8.1% is that the labor force participation rate just dipped to a new 30 year low of 64.3%.


www.zerohedge.com...


Total student debt outstanding appears to have surpassed $1 trillion late last year, said officials at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau,



online.wsj.com...


This nation is screwed nothing is different today than 2008 except the fact that millions are far worse off and this nation is a far worse off.


www.usdebtclock.org...

Who cares tho really 4 more years! 4 more years!

Keep running this country in to the ground from the I want it all,I want it now, and I don't give a crap how.



















edit on 3-9-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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I was better off in 1992 than in 1988. - Voted Ross Perot
I was better off in 1996 than in 1992. - Voted Clinton
I was better off in 2000 than in 1996. - Voted LP.
I was better off in 2004 than in 2000. - Voted LP.
I was better off in 2008 than in 2004. - Voted LP.
I am better off in 2012 than in 2008.

I work hard, don't take government handouts, and think Obama is actually worse than Bush. I will be voting for Romney. I don't like how cozy Obama is with the globalists. I think he'd be content being a dictator. I don't trust him, I know nothing about him, and he scares me.

If the president controlled the economy, then why hasn't Obama, or Bush waved that magic wand and fixed it all back to the glory days of Clinton and the bogus Dot-Com economy? Oh, that's right, the president has ZERO control over the economy. All he/she can do is push high taxes, or low taxes. The only way they can help is to lower taxes on small business...and they don't.





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