Problems In The Church

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

All we have to do is accept, and say yes God, take me, out loud.

I agree with everything except this right here. He reads your heart and your mind. He will not turn away a repentant heart regardless of mouthing the words, otherwise there would be many a deaf/mute heading to hell with babies and mentally handicapped as well, which does not happen. The saying of the words has been tradition but is no requirement for salvation. The bare minimum for salvation is believing in Yeshua, excepting in cases of babies and toddlers who are under the age of accountability (which is they do not know right from wrong) and the mentally handicapped who are incapable of understanding sin and both right and wrong.

Very very nice expo there lonewolf

t is not unlikely that you might lead some people astray. This would have the affect of not only your own ignorance coming down on your head, but those you have turned away from God, as well.

I am not seeking to lead people astray, I am seeking to express my own opinions and express myself in my own way. I am incredibly sick and tired of you people telling me I can't do that that I have to follow your rules and STFU..

No, I don't have to follow your rules. Get that through your thick skull. I am my own person and will always think for myself and do my own things in my own way.

I am not demanding that you people follow my example. I am not making any demands at all other than you stop your stupid attacks upon me because I believe something different than you.

No, it's time you people learned that not everybody thinks like you, and learn some real tolerance and stop attacking people because they are different than you. That is what breeds resentment, trying to force everybody into one neat little package.

And if you actually did some real research and critical thinking of your own, instead of just blindly accepting things as true, you might even find that I am right. I have not come to my opinions without doing the research, or at least as much as I can. These beliefs of mine do not just come out of nowhere. They are based on research and bitter experience because I just do not blindly accept anything that I am told. I have to find things out for myself.

If I find out on my own that you are right I will let you know. Until then, stop your crap.

Stop being so damned judgmental, and let God be the judge. Stop correcting me and let me be.

And if I am truly wrong then he will let me know when I go to see him.

Which also means that if I am truly wrong then it means that I will be going to hell.

And yes I know, this is unacceptable to you and you will seek to ostracize me, like everyone does.

That is what life is all about after all, bullying people into submission and those that won't submit must be gotten rid of.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Stop being so damned judgmental, and let God be the judge. Stop correcting me and let me be.

Seriously? You think that you have a right to say whatever you want without anyone correcting your errors?

As I am not an evangelist, I don't care what you believe, I truly don't. If you want to believe that Jesus was a space alien, or Gnostic, or non-existent, have at it, I couldn't care less.

But if you want to try and convince other people that Jesus was something he was not, or you misrepresent Christianity, I have a moral responsibility to address your error, as does every Christian. I'm not correcting you because I don't want you to believe it, I correct you so that other people don't get invalid information about Christianity and get misled.

No, I will not stop correcting you, not until you stop posting things that need correction. That isn't being judgmental, that's being a proponent of the truth, something all people should aspire to.

I've said it before, I'll say it again -- if you don't want to defend nonsense, don't post it in the first place.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

I am sorry OP, but good thread or bad, you cannot start a thread by labelling some as "fools" and then saying they can't participate.

Aside from being extremely rude from the get go, you are basically labelling yourself as a petulant child......not a good start to any thread.

It is good you have questions and that you seek answers, that is to your credit. My advice would be in future do not then go and spoil that by doing the internet version of fingers in the ears and shouting "lalalala".

Good luck in your quest.

What? This post makes absolutely no sense to me. No where did I pose any questions about this matter in which you are talking about. I'm going to let this comment go, because simply, there is nothing to reply to, concerning your above post. I recommend you read the entire article, to better help you understand just why your post makes no sense, in any way.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You are right. What matters is what is in the heart, but if you are able, God wants you to confess with your mouth. The reason being, from what I understand, is so that others around you might listen, and from that, their road to salvation might be started. It's like a form of giving testimony, and witnessing.

Originally posted by TheBeatMasta
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You are right. What matters is what is in the heart, but if you are able, God wants you to confess with your mouth. The reason being, from what I understand, is so that others around you might listen, and from that, their road to salvation might be started. It's like a form of giving testimony, and witnessing.

Bro, actions have always spoken louder than words with him. He's had thousands of years to listen to people proclaim they love him in their hypocrisy and Israel probably were not the first to do so. Jesus said he doesn't recieve the testimony of men in John 5, a repentant heart and belief in him is all, his grace covers the rest. It's not complicated, it's amazingly simple. You can witness and be a proselyte but they cannot even come to him unless it be by the Holy Spirit (Ruach ha'Kodesh), they have to acknowledge the call when he calls their name.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta

Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. but whoever says, 'You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire."

I am a child of God, rather an atheist or agnostic, is not. Therefore, they are not my brethren in Christ, until they recognize that Christ died for their sins, along with mine, and washed all sins away, becoming Gods' Grace.

Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?" "I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"

WOW! This has to be one of the ugliest Christian sentiments that I've read on this site! This is the reason many run from Christianity.

Where do you draw the line on who are and are not God's children? Muslims worship Allah, are they not your brothers? How about Buddhist, Wiccans, Hindi? All unworthy of your fellowship? Are you so bigoted that only people who see things like you do are worthy of consideration. Good to know just how un-inclusive you really are.

No wonder so many Christians felt justified in the brutal murder of entire populations of percieved "heathens" that couldn't "believe" the hypocritical stories of love, sacrifice and salvation, they pretended to represent. "Hey, what the heck, they're not children of God, they're different than me! "

Lord Jesus, please save us from your followers!

Originally posted by windword
Where do you draw the line on who are and are not God's children? Muslims worship Allah, are they not your brothers? How about Buddhist, Wiccans, Hindi? All unworthy of your fellowship?

You don't seem to grasp some basic Christian concepts. All people are God's children, and no matter who or what someone worships, they remain our brothers, and worthy of fellowship. I count Christians, Hindus and atheists among my friends (I live in the Great White North, so Muslims are a little hard to come by, sorry :-)

That doesn't mean that all of them are saved by the Christian faith, of course.

Are you so bigoted that only people who see things like you do are worthy of consideration. Good to know just how un-inclusive you really are.

I think that you need a refresher in what the definition of "bigot" means.

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance (Source)

-- that would seem to apply to you, and your "definition" of Christians, but not me and my view of the theological perspectives of other people.

No wonder so many Christians felt justified in the brutal murder of entire populations of percieved "heathens" that couldn't "believe" the hypocritical stories of love, sacrifice and salvation, they pretended to represent.

And whom are these "entire populations" that Christians have brutally murdered? Did you know that the number of people killed in the Inquisitions was likely less than 5,000? Hey, even one person killed in the name of Christianity is too many, but I've seen people claim that millions were slaughtered in the Inquisitions. Are you one of these claimants?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
Where do you draw the line on who are and are not God's children? Muslims worship Allah, are they not your brothers? How about Buddhist, Wiccans, Hindi? All unworthy of your fellowship?

You don't seem to grasp some basic Christian concepts. All people are God's children, and no matter who or what someone worships, they remain our brothers, and worthy of fellowship. I count Christians, Hindus and atheists among my friends (I live in the Great White North, so Muslims are a little hard to come by, sorry :-)

You're not the one who made the statement though are you? You aren't the one who created a thread, forbidding "fools" to respond. So why are you using yourself and your opinion as an example?

That doesn't mean that all of them are saved by the Christian faith, of course.

Are you so bigoted that only people who see things like you do are worthy of consideration. Good to know just how un-inclusive you really are.

I think that you need a refresher in what the definition of "bigot" means.

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance (Source)

-- that would seem to apply to you, and your "definition" of Christians, but not me and my view of the theological perspectives of other people.

Thanks for that definition. It has proven my point about the bigoted response of the OP. Since when does calling out someone for bigotry make them a bigot?

No wonder so many Christians felt justified in the brutal murder of entire populations of percieved "heathens" that couldn't "believe" the hypocritical stories of love, sacrifice and salvation, they pretended to represent.

And whom are these "entire populations" that Christians have brutally murdered? Did you know that the number of people killed in the Inquisitions was likely less than 5,000? Hey, even one person killed in the name of Christianity is too many, but I've seen people claim that millions were slaughtered in the Inquisitions. Are you one of these claimants?

In the first few decades since 1492, it was thought that Indians did not have souls because they were "animals" in human form. Therefore, it was believed they could be hunted down like animals, which they were. It was only in 1530 CE that the Pope declared that the Indians were human. Having established their humanity, it was decided that they must be inducted into Christianity. As the Indians were unwilling, this was accomplished by force. Though the change in their status from animal to human might appear to be an improvement, in reality, little changed in their plight.

Unfortunately for the Indians, with the arrival of Christians would come the intolerance for their indigenous ways of life:
The Indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive.

As"they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."

What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive.freetruth.50webs.org...

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
Where do you draw the line on who are and are not God's children? Muslims worship Allah, are they not your brothers? How about Buddhist, Wiccans, Hindi? All unworthy of your fellowship?

You don't seem to grasp some basic Christian concepts. All people are God's children, and no matter who or what someone worships, they remain our brothers, and worthy of fellowship. I count Christians, Hindus and atheists among my friends (I live in the Great White North, so Muslims are a little hard to come by, sorry :-)

You're not the one who made the statement though are you? You aren't the one who created a thread, forbidding "fools" to respond. So why are you using yourself and your opinion as an example?

Well, far be it for me to interject myself on an OP, so point taken, sorry.

Thanks for that definition. It has proven my point about the bigoted response of the OP. Since when does calling out someone for bigotry make them a bigot?

Oops, I guess this was a direct response to me, as was the rest of your post. Probably shouldn't have done that if you wanted me out.

Calling someone out for bigotry doesn't make someone a bigot, unless one uses that point to paint all others with the same brush, as you have done. If you wish to say that the OP's post indicates that the OP is a bigot, fine. If you wish to say that it is, in any way, indicative of any Christian, that makes you a bigot.

And whom are these "entire populations" that Christians have brutally murdered? Did you know that the number of people killed in the Inquisitions was likely less than 5,000? Hey, even one person killed in the name of Christianity is too many, but I've seen people claim that millions were slaughtered in the Inquisitions. Are you one of these claimants?

In the first few decades since 1492, it was thought that Indians did not have souls because they were "animals" in human form. Therefore, it was believed they could be hunted down like animals, which they were. It was only in 1530 CE that the Pope declared that the Indians were human. Having established their humanity, it was decided that they must be inducted into Christianity. As the Indians were unwilling, this was accomplished by force. Though the change in their status from animal to human might appear to be an improvement, in reality, little changed in their plight.

You realize, I assume, that the Spanish conquest of the Americas was an economic one, right? The Spanish throne didn't give two craps about how many souls were saved, it was all about the gold that supposedly was in the New World.

Religion is often a motivator of violence, I am always ready to acknowledge, but it is rarely the cause of it. If you wish to argue with me, you'll find your point in that statement, not in generic atheist claims against Christianity.

reply to post by adjensen


You insist on personally taking on and assuming every criticism directed toward someone's else's expression their interpretation of what is Christian. Why is that? Do you defend his uninclusive sentiment? Or, do you seek to change the subject and deflect attacks in order to protect some flaw from being exposed in the core of Christianity?

I am a child of God, rather an atheist or agnostic, is not. Therefore, they are not my brethren in Christ, until they recognize that Christ died for their sins, along with mine, and washed all sins away, becoming Gods' Grace.

I stand by my critique of this very ugly Christian sentiment.

reply to post by windword


You pretty much said a bunch of non-sense, but that your against Christianity, and made accusations.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


It's just too bad that you can't see how unchristlike your comments are. These are not the teachings of Jesus.

reply to post by windword


You're wrong. They are, because what I talk about is found in the Bible, and comes directly from the Bible. If what I say upsets you, then that simply means you're feeling convicted.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


I never accused you being unbiblical. I accused you of being unchristlike.

You can find anything you want to justify in the Bible. But it is your own words that betray and convict you.

3:5 So too the tongue is a small part of the body, 8 yet it has great pretensions. 9 Think 10 how small a flame sets a huge forest ablaze. 3:6 And the tongue is a fire! The tongue represents 11 the world of wrongdoing among the parts of our bodies. It 12 pollutes the entire body and sets fire to the course of human existence – and is set on fire by hell.

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.

As far as your OP is concerned.....

Yes the 7 deadly sins, the seven horns of the beast, the seven churches are all with us and have been with us since the beginning of time. They continually manifest, under the guise of religion and government.

You have been deceived if you believe that the "Christ" resides in religion. Jesus taught that the kingdom is within. It is not found in any church or between the pages of the Bible.

Originally posted by windword

I am a child of God, rather an atheist or agnostic, is not. Therefore, they are not my brethren in Christ, until they recognize that Christ died for their sins, along with mine, and washed all sins away, becoming Gods' Grace.

I stand by my critique of this very ugly Christian sentiment.

I suppose it depends on his definition of "child of God", doesn't it? I don't have an issue with "they are not my brethren in Christ", and suspect that you wouldn't either (in the same sense that it's not wrong to say that people who are US citizens are Americans, and people who are Canadian citizens are not,) but if "child of God" means anything other than "brethren in Christ", I would agree with you -- it's not an accurate statement, neither is it a nice thing to say.

We're all children of God, regardless of what our beliefs might be.