Problems In The Church

Don't Make Eye Contact With The Preacher

Before I begin this thread, I want to state clearly, that this is the wrong thread for an atheist, or agnostic. I have no time to argue with a fool.

I recently got back from church, and my mind continues to spin. I find myself questioning a lot of what the preacher talks about. It's not that what he says, doesn't go along with the Bible. Well... No... That is a part of it, in a way. Now, I can't say much, but I'm entitled to speak. My problem lies with the pastor seeming to speak more about worldly problems, than of Christ, but that's not all of it.

In the pew, listening closely to what the preacher is saying, I keep my Bible open, and read whatever I hear in my head, I need to read. Today, I heard in my head, to read John chapter 6, and Ecclesiastes chapter 7, while the pastor was preaching. Also, parts of Revelation, after the preacher said something along the lines of; as far as he is concerned, the seven churches described in Revelations aren't in the world yet: the loveless church, the persecuted church, the compromising church, the corrupt church, the dead church, the faithful church, and the lukewarm church. Surely, at least one of these churches are in existence.

That wasn't the only thing I didn't agree with him saying though; although, I didn't have a pen, and paper with me today, and haven't slept all night, so my memory of all the things that came out of his mouth, that I didn't agree with, I don't remember entirely.

I'm not trying to hate on this man, because someone needed to hear the sermon he preached today. Basically, it was about keeping the church united, lest it falls apart, and shuts its' doors.

I normally find myself enveloped in a sense of power, especially when sitting in church. This feeling, leads me to believe that I am either more knowledgeable, in some areas compared to the preacher, I'm more connected, or closer to the Holy Spirit, God, and Christ, or that I just have a higher purpose, but feeling this way, the preacher, and people around me can sense it. I can tell by the looks from the people around. When I'm in this deep state, of power, and/or sometimes a feeling of controlled anger, I don't make eye contact with the preacher, lest he becomes uncomfortable. The times I slip, and do look in his eyes, when they meet mine, I can see the acknowledgment radiating from him of, fear, worry, or insecurity. I'm not really sure which, but I do my best not to look into his eyes, knowing that as long as he stays preaching about what the Bible says, someone in the audience is hearing what God intended to deliver to their heart. I also know these feelings aren’t demonic, because a believer, and one who trusts in God entirely, does not have fear for anything, only a respectful fear of acknowledgement of Gods‘ power, and holiness. (At least they shouldn’t have any fears. God is the Lord Almighty. Everything else is beneath Him, and even demons have to obey Him, therefore there is nothing to be afraid of when having complete Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.)

I find myself being very morbid. Some people might not understand, but for the ones out there that are likewise close to Christ, I'm sure you can relate. When the preacher/pastor talks about death, and recently lost loved ones, etc., soft tears will occasionally leak from my eyes. Not because I'm sad. Not because of the people who recently passed, but because all I want, is to see Christs' face. I’ll begin to day dream about this happening, and become overwhelmed with passion, and emotion.

I often feel a complete surge of power, mixed with a feeling of controlled anger, like when Jesus turned over the tables from the merchants in the temple, when I think the pastor is doing his job poorly, or talking to much about anything worldly; money, etc.

I’m writing this thread/article for a few reasons. One, to get this stuff out, and two, to discuss the biggest problem I think most Christian churches have, and that is the lack of witness groups developed in the church. As my fellow Christians know, witnessing can be quite the task, especially alone, but there are strength in numbers. While witnessing, we run into the people that deny everything, even when you have physical proof, (documents/articles of archaeological evidence proving the Bible is authentic) people who ask the same question over, and over, but in different formats, without listening to anything we say, people who think they have all of the answers, people who lie just to try to prove a point, or to justify themselves, the list goes on.

Point being, It’s hard enough to get the message out, and witness by ourselves with all of the brain washed, and simply ignorant people out there, and we don’t have enough churches that have a witnessing group, that actually goes out to spread the Truth of the Word. This is a problem. Some people seem to think that they are doing the right thing, or doing their part, just by attending church, but how many people are hearing the Word, that don’t know about it? Not enough.

It makes no sense to me. Believers, like myself (although I don’t always attend church) will go to church, but how many people speak about the Bible, and the Truth of God outside of church? It infuriates me. On the inside of the churches walls, people will sometimes put on a show, and praise God all day, but as soon as they leave, who knows if they actually talk about Gods’ Word, or witness to anyone out in public. Many Christians seem to be afraid to even bring up God in public from fear of being ridiculed, or persecuted. Well you know what? Suck it up. There are people out there believing all sorts of off the wall things, and have never heard of Christ before; how He lived, how He died for all sin, and how He was resurrected from the dead. Hell is very real, and a lot of people will end up there. That’s just a fact. Even people who proclaim to be Christian, but aren’t actually saved, will end up there. Simply because in their heart, they truly have never believed entirely.

While I’m on the subject, I want to bring up something else. I’ve met Christians, or so called Christians, that claim to be children of God, but when you bring up the devil, and demons, it’s like taboo to them. The Bible isn’t just a book where you pick, and choose parts to believe. The Bible is Truth. Demons are real, the devil is real, and he has you in the palm of his hand if you do not acknowledge his power. God has dominion over all, but some people, even some supposed Christians I know, want to pull the “you’re just crazy” card when I begin to talk about the influence demons can have on some ones life, unless they are aware, and trust in God in every aspect of their life.

To bring this article/thread to a close, I want to restate my main points. First off, even if it’s a pastor, or preacher speaking, always make sure what he is talking about can be found in the Bible. Second, Christian churches need more witnessing groups to spread the word publicly, in numbers. Third, the devil is real, and his minions/demons have more influence than some people give them credit for, and people need to read on this matter in the Bible, to better understand the Truth. Many people claim to be Christian, but when it comes to speaking publicly about it, they simply don’t, out of fear of being persecuted, ridiculed, and criticized. Truth is, people need to hear. Not only about Jesus, but about demons, hell, and the devil to. This is all very real, eternity is very real, and although we might not have all the answers, the Bible provides us all of the answers we need to know in this life, here on earth. Thank you for reading. It only takes complete Faith, complete Trust, and acceptance of Gods’ grace to receive His blessing.

Hypocrisy is one of the biggest reasons I don't go to church, even as a believe. To me going to church is about learning and worshiping god, not dressing up and saying "OMFG! I'm a better Christian than you look how sharply I am dressing to prove it!"

And other junk similar to that.

So I really don't go to church anymore.

However, I was never told to never look the pastor in the eyes. I was always told to never ask questions and just blindly accept what he was saying as true.

And I just think too much for that kind of stuff.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


That’s so funny, you calling us fools

Firstly, don’t think that you can come here all high and mighty and tell people that they can’t participate in an open thread on the internet because you command it! &^*%&$

Secondly, I like the fact that you worship aliens like they are some type of ‘god’, really - good luck with that in your future

Thirdly, I can see a massive rambling religious brain malfunction here - where you are now doubting preachers – you’re on the right track, doubt everything you read and hear about ‘god’, as it is just a book, written by man to control and manipulate the feeble minded and keep the population mind-set back in the dark ages.

Don’t make eye contact with a preacher? Your right, just walk away, especially if you’re a little boy..... I suggest you RUN!

Mickierocksman

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


I wasn't ever told not to look the pastor in the eyes, that came from my mind. You have to understand, and i'm sure you do, that no one is perfect, so all Christians are hypocrites in one small form, or the other, if you want to use the word hypocrite. I don't think it's fair to use that word, honestly, but it is in the dictionary. Point being though, only Jesus was sinless. We are all just doing the best we can, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

That’s so funny, you calling us fools

Firstly, don’t think that you can come here all high and mighty and tell people that they can’t participate in an open thread on the internet because you command it! &^*%&$

Secondly, I like the fact that you worship aliens like they are some type of ‘god’, really - good luck with that in your future

Thirdly, I can see a massive rambling religious brain malfunction here - where you are now doubting preachers – you’re on the right track, doubt everything you read and hear about ‘god’, as it is just a book, written by man to control and manipulate the feeble minded and keep the population mind-set back in the dark ages.

Don’t make eye contact with a preacher? Your right, just walk away, especially if you’re a little boy..... I suggest you RUN!

Mickierocksman

For one fool, and you are obviously a fool, for making such accusations, I do not worship anyone other than God. Just because I believe in other intelligent life, does not in any way mean I worship them. You obviously display your lack of knowledge on this subject, and myself with your mediocre post. Also, just so you're clear, this is not an argument. You would have to be competition, first, before an argument could even take place. You obviously took offense because you fall under some sort of foolish category I described. You have nothing to back up any of your statements, and your post was rather weak, to boot. You took offense, simply cause you are a fool, and you know it. Otherwise, you wouldn't of replied in such a foolish, angry, and pathetic manner. Not only can I provide archaeological evidence to prove the legitimacy of the Bible, I can also provide proof that He did in fact live, was crucified, and was resurrected. You obviously have done no real research on this topic, and seem to be the type that simply attacks, and makes accusations. A perfect example of a fool, completely controlled by Satan. Whether you realize that, or not, it is true. The Devil can sway you, and persuade you into anything he wants you to do, say, think, or believe, simply because you are not a child of God, therefore, the Devil indeed has full rule over you. I don't feel sorry for you, and definitely don't feel threatened by you. The reason I don't feel sorry for you, is because you choose to be who you are, and choose to not be a child of God, so in fact, you are my enemy. That is until the Truth is revealed to you, once you allow it to be revealed unto you. May you one day understand, and accept Gods Holy Grace.

Proof That Jesus Lived, Was Crucified, And Was Resurrected


Archaeological Evidence Supporting The Legitimacy Of The Bible

This thread is put together well and I'm going to fold a corner so I can respond later, fully.
Quick questions before I head out:
Why do you stay at this church?
What advice can you give to us new christians in terms of finding a church? When I see all these different sects, I feel that something isn't right.. The bible is simply the anchor into gods heart and is fallible, as it was written by man, and changed? I seem to be offending certain people of the faith when I testify or say anything thats not in line with their beliefs. aka judged which is the antithesis of true christianity.. Are we just at different periods in our understanding of the full picture? I notice alot of heat around the catholic topic and of course us "new kids", meditation etc

You can meditate as a christian, it's not necessarily bad, it just depends how you go about it.
That statement alone will have me condemned by certain people,,

reply to post by TheBeatMasta




Posting a boob-tube clip, yep, that must be proof that 'god' exists well done mate, you really showed me

Little boy, you have so much growing up to do - lets start simply shall we.

A question for you.....

Out of the thousands of documented ancient 'gods', what makes yours the right and only one?

A sub question to that would be......

And what will you do if your 'god' turns out to be incorrect and you have been worshipping a false idol? I hear 'gods' don't like it when you worship incorrectly.... so what will you do in that event?

What say you christian soldier?

Mickierocksman

Sounds like it is time to find a new church. If you are not being fed spiritually or if true and sound Biblical doctrine is not being studied and taught, it is time to leave and find another church.

As far as witness groups and coming together with other Christians for the purpose of witnessing, ...

Form your own group.

In doing so, you are closer to the original foundation of the Church as presented in the New Testament.

I pretty much have given up on most of the local churches in my community. They are good people for the most part, but the "leaders" in those churches either do not teach ALL of the Bible or only believe certain parts of the Bible... ie demons, possession, Satan are avoided or discounted. Further, indepth study of any of the more challenging parts such as Ezekiel's wheel are discouraged.

I am still a Christian and I read the Bible and pray... and I still receive the blessings of God, but not in organized religion.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


Jesus and God are not sinless. They do engage in some of the seven deadly sins that are only sins for humans but not for god because god is so special he is not beholden to his own rules and standards he sets for us. All he does is do as I say not as I do.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


Bro, aspects of the 7 churches have always been present. Each church is one of the 7 seals and is also a church age. For instance the letter to Ephesus was the letter to the first church age (church governed by the first generation messianics) and is the first seal. The 7 churches also represent the 7 different types of believers. Jesus has broken 1 seal per every church age. Right now we're in the church age of Laodicea the lukewarm church and that may be what you're feeling is wrong in your church. The 8th head of the Beast (Rev. 17) is rising to power, we are living in the times of the very end times prophecies. Some preachers feel the need to warn people against worldly things, but often forget the love of our Savior and the objective to reach out to those lost souls who do not know him.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Jesus and God are not sinless. They do engage in some of the seven deadly sins that are only sins for humans but not for god because god is so special he is not beholden to his own rules and standards he sets for us. All he does is do as I say not as I do.

That is blasphemy and you're not a believer if you could even say such things about Him.

Isaiah 55:8-9

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


I assume that you do not have offspring.
It is an easy road of blame but a hard road of redemption..

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


Clearly, you are going to the wrong church. Visit others. As another observation, religion is not connecting with God in a perfect world as much as it is connecting your witness to others in a fallen world. Your best witness is simply living with virtue and honor and acknowledging the source of your faith. Faith requires trust in God. Faith is not your work, but God's work in you (and others). Living in fear of all that is wrong in this world ignores all that is right. Any place you look, there will be both aspects equally paired. Living by faith finds the good in all people and situations. You can find either good or bad. Remember that you cannot see a fault in another person without first seeing it in yourself. Many times, we are finding the faults around us as a reflection of our own shortcomings. Facing them in ourselves first allows us to see the same change of awareness in others.

Going back to the Bible, this is removing the plank in your own eye before trying to remove the speck in another.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


First off, good on you to ignore the fools -- though they'll infest this thread like a plague. Forgive them... it's what they do.

Secondly, I felt a lot like you about a year ago. The church that I was attending (indeed, that I was one of the elders in,) just wasn't doing anything for me. I liked the people, many of them were good friends, but the church itself just seemed dead. Uninspired preaching, lax worship, and not much going on, apart from the constant maintenance of the church itself.

Today, I feel 100% different, far more spiritually connected to God and my community, and happy with the current state of my spiritual journey. I still have far to go, but I feel like I'm back on the road.

As to how... well, most probably won't like to hear it.

After twenty years of being a Protestant (Methodist,) I converted to Roman Catholicism.

The "why" of that is a long story, and is deeply entrenched in who I am and how I came to Christ, so I don't know that it is of much use to anyone. However, the positives of that change may well be, and you may be able to apply the notions to your own spiritual journey.

Firstly, this was a radical change, one which required me to get fully engaged with my new church. Although I have long been a Catholic leaning Protestant, the conversion required me to attend classes on the Catholic faith, and I had to sort out questions that I had about that church, how I felt about the answers, and whether, in the end, I could say that I was okay with them. That's a lot of introspection, and one can't help but draw closer to God through it.

Second, it required me to spend more time examining what my new church had to offer, and in the case of the Catholic church, it was a lot, and moved me from being a "Sunday Christian" to one who grabbed onto God on a daily basis. The Catholic church encourages this (though it isn't required,) through a number of means, though the one I most latched onto was the Liturgy of the Hours, a method of prayer that keeps one connected to God on a daily basis. Though this is a Catholic practice, it is largely a recitation of the Psalms, so I'm not sure that it would be prohibited by a Protestant faith.

As an example, this is the morning prayer: Lauds -- it changes every day, as do the other prayers, so one doesn't feel like they're just going "by the boards". I also find some solace in the notion that, while I am praying that, hundreds or even thousands, of others are also doing so.

I would say that a change in church (even just within your denomination) would be beneficial to you, as well as spending time outside of organized worship to be with God, no matter what means you use to do that. We all can stand with a "refresher" or even "reboot" of our faith, and it sounds like maybe this is your time.

Best wishes on that stage of your journey.

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Posting a boob-tube clip, yep, that must be proof that 'god' exists

well done mate, you really showed me

Little boy, you have so much growing up to do - lets start simply shall we.

A question for you.....

Out of the thousands of documented ancient 'gods', what makes yours the right and only one?

A sub question to that would be......

And what will you do if your 'god' turns out to be incorrect and you have been worshipping a false idol? I hear 'gods' don't like it when you worship incorrectly.... so what will you do in that event?

What say you christian soldier?

Mickierocksman

Your response seems a little bit off key and full of hate.
I do wonder if you realize that most of us here love you even if we disagree?
This is a conspiracy site. What better place for tiis topic?
All i'm saying is that the op makes sense to me so why should you bash it so hard when you could just constructfully criticize instead?

Originally posted by deadeyedick
All i'm saying is that the op makes sense to me so why should you bash it so hard when you could just constructfully criticize instead?

"Haters gotta hate."

Just keep reciting that when you see moronic posts like that one.

Some people are so shallow that the only way that they can deal with people who think differently than they do is to belittle them.

In most instances, such people are referred to as bigots and asses.

But when they are ridiculing Christians, they are referred to as skeptics and rationalists. It's just a part of the persecution of the faithful in these days -- "Mickierocksman" is playing his role, like any tool would.

Sad thing is that, if you spend time talking to them, these sorts are some of the most irrational people around, they just don't realize it.

reply to post by adjensen

Second, it required me to spend more time examining what my new church had to offer, and in the case of the Catholic church, it was a lot, and moved me from being a "Sunday Christian" to one who grabbed onto God on a daily basis. The Catholic church encourages this (though it isn't required,) through a number of means, though the one I most latched onto was the Liturgy of the Hours, a method of prayer that keeps one connected to God on a daily basis. Though this is a Catholic practice, it is largely a recitation of the Psalms, so I'm not sure that it would be prohibited by a Protestant faith.

The sunday only christians are the ones doing it wrong, you're supposed to worship and seek him everyday. I grew up in a single parent home (dad) and i got to watch him be a royal bastard 6.5 days a week and it ended up driving me away from Jesus for 14 years after i ran away from home and my dad was a professing Assembly of God pentecostal. I figured if i had to be a hypocrite to be a christian then i didn't want to be a christian and then my dive into agnosticism and atheism in college after seeing my anthropology professor throw a bible on the ground to make the point no one would be struck dead by lightning.

You're not supposed to do repititions of the same prayers either.

Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Nothing wrong with reciting scripture but Jesus would rather hear something that comes from your own heart versus repeating whats already been written over and over or 30 Hail Mary's. He desires us to commune with him and to hear his voice. Nor does he require hours and hours of long winded prayers to him, just speaking your mind and your thoughts and confiding in him your doubts much like a friend, because he is our greatest friend and brother. I get the wierdest looks from people sometimes because they think i'm talking to myself when i'm talking to him, i just let it roll down my back like water.

reply to post by adjensen


Yer correct but how would you want me to respond if it were you receiving delusion or would you want me to respond at all?
My biggest problem in life i guess is holding out hope for all of us .

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You're not supposed to do repititions of the same prayers either.

Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Nope, you're right, but that's not what the Liturgy of the Hours is. It varies from day to day and is just an encouragement to stay in contact with God every day. Think of it as a "reminders system" that existed hundreds of years before computer alarms

My personal use of it is to follow my morning prayers (which are not recited, and reflect the current needs of the prayer chain that I'm a part of,) with the Morning Prayer, as well as the "Office of Readings", which generally has a sermon from one of the early church fathers.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by adjensen

 

Yer correct but how would you want me to respond if it were you receiving delusion or would you want me to respond at all?
My biggest problem in life i guess is holding out hope for all of us .

I leave that to God. Theologically, I can see how an atheist can serve God's will, whether they like it or not -- how that works out in the end, I don't know, so I generally just dismiss it with the "haters gotta hate" bit and figure it will resolve itself. If they're condemned for their irrational hatred, they're condemned, but if God saves them from their hatred, that's glory to God, so who are we to complain?