Ancient Civilizations

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posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 08:00 PM
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As a freelance UFO and Fortean researcher and historian with more than three decades of experience in my chosen field, I'm always open to new experiences and over the period of the last fourteen months have been working closely with a small group of psychics and remote viewers in the Oklahoma City region of the United States. I should stress that I take what I'm about to relate very seriously indeed - this is not a hoax or an attempt at disinformation, and if 'true' it certainly is of interest.

The psychic channels which I have been working with were asked various questions in regards to the state of ancient civilizations on this planet and returned some interesting results. They claimed that the planet was originally terraformed, and that much of the water that covers it was "flown in" to form its oceans. Much of our flora and fauna was also imported. Our moon is is fact an artifical satellite (as others have suspected - just look at its almost perfectly circular orbit), and that our current civilization (or should that be group of civilizations and cultures) is in fact the fifth of as many which have occupied this world in the past - with names like mu, lemuria, atlantis and suchlike being used by the channels.

Apparently, as suspected, these cultures have existed, risen and fallen or have been destroyed, including the most recent which reportedly died out when a large piece of space debris hit the planet before the dinosaurs rose and fell, and which pieces of are still being found buried under bedrock, in coal beds, and in other places the world over. My question is - if applicable at all - has anyone else worked with 'channels' to unlock elements of this planets past, and possibly explain elements of its potential future? Is anyone willing to relate their experiences in regards to this form of intelligence gathering?







That said, I have had plenty of time to formulate discussion material and to ask questions of




posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 08:25 PM
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Do you have any physical evidence or artifacts in support of these claims?
How does your comment about the moon being an artificial satellite square with the seismic tests undertaken on the moon that show it to be mostly rock -- and solid at that?

You say that the last "civilization took place during the Permian Era or even before it (ca. 100 million years ago) and pieces of (what? the space debris?) are still found in coal beds and under bedrock.

Do you have any links or geologic evidence to support that assertion?

I cannot relate my experience in regards to this form of intelligence gathering, because I have no experience in this whatsoever. But I would be interested if you could relate your experience and, more importantly, provide any supplemental evidence that gives credence to these assertions.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 06:13 AM
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Actually, and surprisingly the answer to your initial question is YES - there is an extensive catalogue of evidence to support these claims, noting of course that they are not necessarily mine (but the claims of entities who have beeb channeled via spirit mediums, or psychics). Known to certain research groups who are given to this sort of thing as OOPA's or Out of Place Artifacts they have taken the form of nails, screws, tablets, strange pieces of metal, machined items, lenghts of manufacured chain, and even what looks to be a spark plug believe it or not. There are weirder items as well, some of which have been released, but of which we can make no sense of.

The use of psychic channels to confirm the existance of said artifacts and to find out where, and when they were created was the whole point of the initial research and they were asked questions specifically about the origin of given pieces which have come our way over the last couple of centuries - including fossilized homonoid (sic) footprints next to dinosaur tracks (I have seen these for myself at a couple of locations in North America, including Colorado and the prints in the bed of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose, Texas last year. Now, taking on the claims that the moon is an artifical structure.

I was able in 1991 to handle samples of lunar rock which were provided to a educational facility in West London, England, for use at something called the "space school" and they were merely a curiosity as they were encased in a very tough plastic at the time. However, that said, I read a couple of books a few years back which suggested that lunar expeditions had dated the moon as being older than the oldest rock samples available to use on Earth, and taking aside the fact that the Earth is a volcanic entity (as proven by the event events at Mt. St. Helens and other locations), these lunar samples were found to be anything other than what had been postulated by the geological scientists on Earth.

Now, a number of ancient cultures have legends related to the Moon suggesting that Earth once had no lunar body and that one night it arrived in the sky creating a terrific environmental uproar and altering the Earth in a number of interesting ways. If this was possible - it might point to it being possible that it was in fact artifical. Well, I have not got the time or the space to explain it all here, but I can recommend two books (once I recall the authors names) but they are Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon, and Somebody Else is on Our Moon. Excellent works. The moon by the way is littered with plenty of titanium and seems to be hollow or has caverns at a depth of twenty plus miles beneath is surface according to N.A.S.A. geological studies carried out there.

I was fortunate enough in 1991-92 to work with a gentleman who is still employed with that agency who shared that information with me in regards to these claims. Mind you, the moon has also shown evidence of water vapor, cloud formation, etc. It is anything but a dead world - according to recent studies if you wish to find, read and confirm them. The pieces of material you asked about have been discussed in the preceeding paragraphs. Space debris of course has been found on Earth, but seeing as its nature and structure is well known, it would quickly be identified as just that - space debris and would not be of interest to anyone other than the scientists who enjoy that dull sort of stuff.

I would be more than happy to discuss my experiences in regards to remote viewing and psychic channeling work with anyone at this forum in the future, but I should stress that seeing as I am exploring what can at best be described as "null information" meaning that it is supplied on faith alone and that we have to either prove it or disprove it via research or by obtaining physical proof of our own (as which was utilized to start the sessions in the first place). I might remind you and others here that such means have been employed in the past to find out more about the afterlife and even about non-human intelligence (which is part of the project I am involved in) but these projects have for the most part been initiated by people with religious leanings or those trying to prove their own theories in regards to their religious beliefs.

I should stress that I am neither religious nor interested in any form of religion as I see it as a form of control mechanism.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by peacekeeper
). Known to certain research groups who are given to this sort of thing as OOPA's or Out of Place Artifacts they have taken the form of nails, screws, tablets, strange pieces of metal, machined items, lenghts of manufacured chain, and even what looks to be a spark plug believe it or not.


You must be referring to the Coso Artifact, which has been debunked:



As a note of caution I present the Coso Artifact. This artifact was found inside a rock by two amateur geologists prospecting for rocks to sell in California. The artifact was a strange combination of metal and porcelain inside a rock. The object seemed to be of no use to an ancient civilization, so what was it? It turned out to be a 1920's spark plug, as identified by several spark plug collectors. Most likely it powered a truck used by miners in the mountains. It was discarded and the mud hardened around it, making it look like it was encased in a "geode."

Forbidden Archaeology





Now, a number of ancient cultures have legends related to the Moon suggesting that Earth once had no lunar body and that one night it arrived in the sky creating a terrific environmental uproar and altering the Earth in a number of interesting ways. If this was possible - it might point to it being possible that it was in fact artifical. Well, I have not got the time or the space to explain it all here, but I can recommend two books (once I recall the authors names) but they are Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon, and Somebody Else is on Our Moon. Excellent works. The moon by the way is littered with plenty of titanium and seems to be hollow or has caverns at a depth of twenty plus miles beneath is surface according to N.A.S.A. geological studies carried out there.



I would like to know which cultures believe that the moon suddenly appeared in the sky.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 07:43 AM
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www.surfingtheapocalypse.com...

I believe this is the kind of artifact or rare find that our friend is talking about. Or this one linked below.

www.phaistos.demon.co.uk...

In about 100,000 years there will probably be no concrete proof to say that you and me have ever existed.......just because know1 in the future could prove we did.....doesnt mean we didnt exist does it. This is what I think like......I believe that we have been around on this earth for a lot longer than we have been led to believe by mainstream religion and history. for example, it is widely accepted that the most ancient known culture in our history are the Sumerians. Yet where did the Sumerians come from??? How was their race and society peiced together and from what??? were we just apes and suddenly eveolved into a race of spiritually and astronomically adept humans.....this seems unlikely, and unreasonable, so what happend before this time??? Can anyone fill in the gaps?? and why have there been so many ancient megaliths found in Britain (stonehendge), Eygypt, Bulgaria, iraq, USA, mexico, peru, honduras, etc, which seem to have come from a race of being or humans who held influence over every country or land we have in our day??? There is so much about this world that is unknown, I hope we find some answers by the time Im old and grey



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:00 AM
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)))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((((((

May I add my positive thoughts for
a SUCCESSFUL enterprise, program.

~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~

Question there peacekeeper;

? how does one truely know that the
info being provided by the 'channelers'
and remote-viewers (a small group -
in the OKC area) is un-influenced??

there are lotsa published, yet not
widely known, myths, stories, theories,
hypothesis....maybe these non-ordinary
'connections' are bringing fanciful ideas
masquerading as 'evidence'

check out this thought-oid:
"Exploding Planet Hypothesis"
theres the 'water' from the sky meme
theres the captured moon meme
**Just to name 1 subliminal input channel**

PS I stopped in OKC twice in my coast-2-coast travels
but I never expected such a 'clean & personable' city
to be the victim of the terror bombing...im saddened

if you happen to see ms WERNA...Hi!



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 08:11 AM
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Most OOPARTS have been debunked as misidentified, such as in the case of the spark plug above...

I guess the real question becomes, if they (the mediums) can learn so much about these ancient civilizations, then can they learn where such ruins may be? If these civilizations were so advanced, then wouldn't we see evidence of this? If we were to vanish tomorrow in a nuclear holocaust, archeoligists from millions of years into our future will see the unmistakable marks of our presence here...why not so for these civilizations.

There is ample evidence showing the evolution of how our Earth came to be, plate tectonics, ice caps, ice ages, etc. that seem contrary to the mediums' ideas. Likewise, as some have mentioned, there is more evidence supporting a solid, natural moon than an artificial one.

My personal research revolves mostly around Atlantis. An ancient civilization, but not much more advanced than others of the time, except perhaps in the area of seamanship... Over the years I've looked at every suspected site, Thera, other islands, in the middle of the Atlantic, etc. and I've come to the conclusion that the continent of South America was once called Atlantis, as well as a capital city of the same name... The city sunk, and it's remains can be found in the Altiplano region, fitting each of Plato's remarks, one by one. The evidence points to a city as described by Plato, not the sci-fi writers that came after...no death rays, no flying machines, etc.



posted on Oct, 14 2004 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by peacekeeper
this is not a hoax or an attempt at disinformation, and if 'true' it certainly is of interest.

Fair enough.


the planet was originally terraformed,

Why did it need to be terraformed? They are talking about this having happened more then 3 billion and some odd years ago?


much of the water that covers it was "flown in" to form its oceans

Why does the ocean water have the isotpic makeup that it has then? Shouldn't there be at least two different signatures, one terrestrial, one of the flown in type?

Much of our flora and fauna was also imported.

Then why is it all interrelated?

Our moon is is fact an artifical satellite

Then why are the rocks its composed of match the makeup of earth rocks?

mu, lemuria, atlantis and suchlike being used by the channels.

Then where are the evidences and artifacts of these civs?

Apparently, as suspected, these cultures have existed, risen and fallen[...]before the dinosaurs rose and fell,

There are fossils of both animals and plants and other organisms from that period, there is no evidence of any sort of technology from those periods.

and which pieces of are still being found buried under bedrock, in coal beds, and in other places the world over.

A good test then would be to go to the coal beds they are talking about and dig. Why hasn't anyone found this stuff before? Why has everyone digging in the earth managed to so skillfully avoid all this?

That said, I have had plenty of time to formulate discussion material and to ask questions of

It seems like your channels, however, are defrauding you. Is there anything else they have offered to contradict this?

OOPA

None have ever been demonstrated to be genuine and everyone I have seen have been demonstrated to be frauds.

including fossilized homonoid (sic) footprints next to dinosaur tracks

the pauluxy tracks were fraudulent, carved next to the dinosaur tracks by a hoaxer

these lunar samples were found to be anything other than what had been postulated by the geological scientists on Earth

Lunar rock is just what its 'supposed' to be. Its in many ways just like earth rock. In fact, if I recall correctly, its similar enough to date the formation of the moon as being after (or was it before) the differentiation of the crust and mantle. IOW even the isotopic compositions were 'unextraordinary' (well, as unextraordinary as rocks from the moon can be anyways). One of my professors worked with Lunar samples. He's a geologist and a part of nasa's exobiology program. Lunar rocks aren't indicative of an artificial orgin or anything like what these channels are saying.

seems to be hollow

Ok, you aren't really a serious researcher into this sort of stuff are you then? I had hoped you were posting from the Fortean Times offices or something.

shared that information with me in regards to these claims

Who? And he never published this info eh?

prove it or disprove it via research or by obtaining physical proof of our own

Good. Thats a good way to go about it.

www.surfingtheapocalypse.com...

I thought you said you had your own information about this stuff? These articfacts have been addressed in many venues. What did you find uncovincing about these concerns?

phaistos

This phaistos disk is a genuine enigma, but its certainly not an oopa. Its a circle, with some stuff on it. Many people have claimed to have deciphered it, apparently this 'AlanButler' guy has too. What makes his claims anymore substantial? Why haven't they been presented in a proper journal, rather than published in a book he profits from the sale of? Others who feel they have translated it have made their work freely available, which is the norm in scientific research.

In about 100,000 years there will probably be no concrete proof to say that you and me have ever existed

Interesting, someone else was saying the same thing in another thread. Why do you think this? THere is evidence of people and such from 100 kya ago. Why do you think the evidencecreated now won't last? Are you also saying that by some miracle the nuclear waste this civilization is producing will somehow disaapear?

Yet where did the Sumerians come from

Try reading up on some of the research into the pre-sumerian settlements for a start eh?

How was their race and society peiced together and from what??? were we just apes and suddenly eveolved into a race of spiritually and astronomically adept humans

No one claims this. The sumerians are a continuation of that which came before them, they don't 'spring up fully formed' from nowhere.

which seem to have come from a race of being or humans who held influence over every country or land we have in our day

What makes you say megalithic monuments are evidence of this influence?

Gazrok highlights a good point, somethign I mentioned above. If they are able to see these things, then they should be able to predict where the remains of these civs are, and what specific remains can be found, and then have these predictions confirmed by going out and getting them. Coal seams aren't inacesible, and permian rocks reach the surface all over the planet.



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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I think Nygdan covered most of the questions that I'd ask


Originally posted by peacekeeper
Much of our flora and fauna was also imported.

From where? Could you give examples of "imported" flora and fauna and at what point it was supposedly imported?


Our moon is is fact an artifical satellite (as others have suspected - just look at its almost perfectly circular orbit), and that our current civilization (or should that be group of civilizations and cultures) is in fact the fifth of as many which have occupied this world in the past - with names like mu, lemuria, atlantis and suchlike being used by the channels.

Perhaps you could tell us where we can find in situ some evidence of these civilizations?


Apparently, as suspected, these cultures have existed, risen and fallen or have been destroyed, including the most recent which reportedly died out when a large piece of space debris hit the planet before the dinosaurs rose and fell, and which pieces of are still being found buried under bedrock, in coal beds, and in other places the world over.

Perhaps they could tell us where it hit? After all, it's quite easy to spot these things once we know where to look and the geologic evidence is pretty unmistakeable.


My question is - if applicable at all - has anyone else worked with 'channels' to unlock elements of this planets past, and possibly explain elements of its potential future? Is anyone willing to relate their experiences in regards to this form of intelligence gathering?

No... but I've worked with scientists. I am a scientist (although really just a grad student scientist. I have a lot to learn!)

Does that count?



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 04:32 AM
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VERY interesting theory. I thought i've heard about every theory there is out there, but i've never heard of this one. If earth was originaly terraphormed, then who did it?



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 08:11 AM
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Apparently "Peacekeeper" is no longer participating in the discussion.



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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I think we scared him off. A pity... I did have some questions for him and his team, involving some real archaeological research (where I honestly could use the channeled information to help locate a possible site.)

Amazing how they all vanish when I ask them about that. They're willing as the dickens to tell me all about Atlantis, etc, and yet they can't help me find known artifacts from known people within a known 2 county area.



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 12:06 PM
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Its actually very frustrating because so often people present similar claims but they so rarely back them up. And very often they'll act like sincere and honest questioning in a sinister attempt at debunking or something.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:44 AM
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How often would you say that happened Nygden? People posting just to debunk topics?



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 06:20 AM
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As someone who "channels" myself, I can say I have learned an important thing about it, which is this:

The only thing you can be sure of is that you can never really be sure of anything.

Disembodied spirits are no more infallible than those with bodies, and are prisoners of their own illusions just as we are prisoners of ours.

That said, I am pretty sure (but never certain) that we have all been around in one form or another for a very, very long time.

I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of us could find all sorts of interesting memories within us of ancient times on this planet.

Of course, it's hard enough remembering what one had for dinner 1,294 days ago, let alone what happened in another corporeal existence millions of years ago.

Nonetheless, I keep looking, and the search tends to be rewarding in itself, regardless of outcome.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Disaster_Boy
How often [...]posting just to debunk topics?

From what I have seen not particularly often at all. Most of the time someone has information about a subject one way or another and they want to present and discuss it. Every once in a while someone who understands a topic steps in when they see clearly incorrect information being posted.

For my own part, I tend to get involved the second way on one or two topics and the first way on most others.




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