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Blair, Bush should be tried for Iraq: Tutu

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posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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If bush, cheney, and blair does get tried in court, then at least we are giving them a chance, unlike the chance he gave to Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Now what to do about the pracks who voted them in illegally.




posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 


Since you believe prosecuting the past will not correct the future, I presume you're against all forms of punishment for any crime, or does the same principle not apply to Joe public?
edit on 2-9-2012 by thoiter because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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I don't know if i speak for aim64c, but ANY crime where someone is proven guilty is perfectly legit in my book, i just think sex offenders get off way to easily (no pun intended).



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by jacobe001
 


I don't particularly support Bush Jr or Sr, as they are 2nd and 3rd generation bonesmen, and I am perfectly well aware of them as NWO, but my beef is the operation of a criminal court which goes around US sovereignty. The UN and the Intl Criminal Court are the apparatus of New World Government which I don't support and never will. Notice I gave Clinton a pass on the criminal court and expressly asked people to not view my post as partisan.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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If you were to kill someone and be brought to trial for it ten years after the fact, having committed no other serious offenses and living a productive lifestyle - is it justice to imprison you (remove you from your source of income), fine you into bankruptcy, etc?

No. That's spitefulness at best - sadistic vengeance at worst.


Your arguments leave me dumbfounded. WOW!. LOL. what can I say...

try raise a child that way and see what type of monster you create.

I cant think of even 1 good reason these liars & murderers shouldn't get a day in court. quite the opposite actually. when you hold the public trust... you should be held to a much higher standard. which means much more severe penalties for F'ing up and lying.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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It appears that Tutu was active as a member in the World Council of Churches.


South Africa is the home of peoples of widely divergent languages, cultures and development. In order to civilise and advance them, the ”white” governments developed a policy of separate development (later called Apartheid), which, as time passed and progress took place, was relaxed to a point where, in the 1980s, it was well-nigh abolished. All races enjoyed ”political power” in one way or another. At this time of real transformation the ecumenical movement entered into an actively militant phase. It supported, financed, and promoted marxist ”liberation movements” and sanctioned violence to overthrow the South African government.

www.christianaction.org.za...



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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[quote/]Originally posted by Aim64C[quote/]

Q.And what do you propose as justice?
Locking them up in a cage? Public humiliation? Public execution?
A.Yep all 3 in that order.

Q.What do such things accomplish? How does it change what already happened?
More importantly - how will it affect what lay in store for the future?
A.Incentive to people not to be murdering bastards or this happens to you 2.

Q.How is this standing up to "the government?"
A.Because Gov don't want you to & it set precedence for future gov.

Q.The purpose behind executing, jailing, or exiling an individual was to prevent them from causing more damage to society. Somehow, this has become twisted into the idea that it is to punish people for their wrong-doings. Our justice system has become saturated with sadism long disconnected from the functional purpose it served - which was to purge our society of individuals who preyed upon it.
A.Um no, punishment was always part of it otherwise every sentence would be life without parole.

Q.If you were to kill someone and be brought to trial for it ten years after the fact, having committed no other serious offenses and living a productive lifestyle - is it justice to imprison you (remove you from your source of income), fine you into bankruptcy, etc?
A.Yes, if I rape & murder your family how long do I have to remain free for you to give me this free pass?


Q.The problem is that people in the U.S. are so focused on the past that they have forgotten there is a present ever-expanding into the future.
So focused, are we, on bringing justice to events in the past that we have forgotten there is a future full of the same problems (and worse).
A.Your future has the same problems because people like you refuse to hold those in the past responsible for their actions thus indicating to present & future they can do as they please without fear of repercussion.

Q.Bluntly - we can do whatever the hell we want and there's not much the rest of the world can do about it. I'm sure you'll try and throw back that "the rest of the world could unite and fight the U.S." - but that's a lolipop dream. Military hardware considerations and command hierarchy aside - most of the U.S.'s strongest economic allies could not afford to do much more than say "we disagree," and anyone who could mount military opposition would be just as likely to end up at war with others willing to mount military opposition to the U.S.
A.Bluntly you over state your capabilities & without allied assistance you could not do much, hell you couldn't have even unleashed your shock & aw tactics (read that as indiscriminate murder of innocent people) in Iraq without the help of Arab countries.

Q.We can wreck a whole country with a carrier battle group and our civilian population not even feel the cost of war.
A.Yet it only takes a couple of people to fly planes into buildings, park a truck in front of a high rise or take an assault rifle to the movies. Now imagine a goat herder or 2 are given plain glass vials to take on holiday to America with them all of a sudden your carrier group doesn't mean squat.

Q. Were we not concerned with nation building or environmental responsibility .... we could go on a conquest that could make Rome look timid.
A.lol, lol, & lol. I suppose depleted uranium is environmentally friendly in your eyes cause it's depleted yeah?
What happened to Rome & all those great empires? This is something you should look into because it is the 1 thing all empires have in common.
Here is a hint, they are no longer empires.


Q. What can be done about it?
For starters - don't piss us off.
A. Or just fly planes into buildings occasionally, make sure the family gets a personal copy of those vids where their loved ones get their heads sawn off for invading another country.

Your post makes you seem like a very stereotypical arrogant Yank, these people are not only accountable to their countries they are accountable to the world. That's why we have an international court in the Hague. Ohh that's right American arrogance dictates these rules don't apply to them, nor does international law when they illegally invade countries. They do like to use them when punishing others though which just lends to the arrogant hypocrite title they have earned.


edit on 2-9-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: Because I screwed the post tags.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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I personally think President George W. Bush went to Iraq to get revenge for the attempt on his fathers life and to steal their oil So, I also say he should be held accountable. While we are at it, perhaps the same should be done to President Barack Obama. If any President before him or Bush had done all they did, they would have been impeached quick and sure.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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Nor do I support the NWO, and Romney is following lock step in that direction.
And I don't mean that in a partisan way either.
Obama has been doing so as well.

When it comes to our nations sovereignty and the best interest of the people in this country, though, many like to pick and choose only what they think benefits them, and shun the rest. Like letting Multi National Corporations that owe no allegiance to any country access via lobbyists and places in government for them to put their cronies in.



Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by jacobe001
 


I don't particularly support Bush Jr or Sr, as they are 2nd and 3rd generation bonesmen, and I am perfectly well aware of them as NWO, but my beef is the operation of a criminal court which goes around US sovereignty. The UN and the Intl Criminal Court are the apparatus of New World Government which I don't support and never will. Notice I gave Clinton a pass on the criminal court and expressly asked people to not view my post as partisan.

edit on 2-9-2012 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2012 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2012 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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They should both be made into a banana split. Those are so delicious. If they were bananas, the world would be a much better place. Nyan.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by jacobe001
 


Apparently, some here pick and choose Bush and Romney while leaving Clinton and Obama intact. (not saying you here).



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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With all due respect, why just Tony Blair and George W? Why isn't the current President tried as well? He didn't start it, but by allowing it to continue has definitely condoned it, just as guilty a offense. Also, the U.S. and Great Britain were not the only ones there..


1 Afghanistan
2 Australia
3 Armenia
4 Azerbaijan
5 Bahrain
6 Bangladesh
7 Bulgaria
8 Belgium
9 Bosnia and Herzegovina
10 Canada
11 China
12 Congo
13 Cyprus
14 Czech Republic
15 Denmark
16 Egypt
17 Estonia
18 France
19 Georgia
20 Germany
21 Greece
22 Hungary
23 India
24 Iran
25 Ireland
26 Italy
27 Kuwait
28 Kyrgyzstan
29 Latvia
30 Lithuania
31 Macedonia
32 Malaysia
33 Montenegro
34 Netherlands
35 New Zealand
36 Norway
37 Oman
38 Pakistan
39 Poland
40 Portugal
41 Qatar
42 Romania
43 Russia
44 Slovakia
45 Slovenia
46 South Korea
47 Spain
48 Sudan
49 Sweden
50 Switzerland
51 Tajikistan
52 Thailand
53 Turkey
54 Turkmenistan
55 United Arab Emirates
56 Uzbekistan

Shouldn't they be tried as well? Oh... I get it, it's the whole America and Great Britain is the devil thing. To borrow slang from my cousins across the pond in G.B...... BOLLOCKS!!



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Skinon
 


I'm sure my Iraq neighbor, who after 20 years was able to re-unite with his various family members in Iraq after the fall of Saddam wants to see bush prosecuted for "war crimes".

Should we have gone in? No. Did something good come out of it? Yes a free Iraqi nation.

LOL at the STUPID NOTION of war crimes.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Skinon
 


then tutu should be tried for his discreations also. the chemicals they were looking for was destroyied in the dessert of quwait. which was what caused the sickness most of soldiers had. some sicknesses came from the new weapons we were using that needed first war. TUTU to me is a black man who hates whites period. He is a most vicous person with great control except when it comes to white americans . because the haven't been beaten nor rule by blacks and had their human dignity taken away by them(as enemies). We had a hards time getting rid of slavery but we did. We still haven't got rid of preigdousness yet on either side of that arguement nor have /nor will get ride of predigousness because there will always be someone who thinks they are better than anyone else. SO WHAT !!!!



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Skinon
 


We are still waiting for Henry Kissinger (The Case Against Henry Kissinger)...



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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The funny thing is that people are saying "Should I consider what this guy is saying to be important?"... when in fact he could very well be right.

Right or wrong, status is more important. And how do you get status? Materialism.

It would be nice if mankind could move out of this stage.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by NotAnAspie
 

You've made a good point, my hat's off to you.


The funny thing is that people are saying "Should I consider what this guy is saying to be important?"... when in fact he could very well be right.
We should all be looking at the truth of the message instead of the messenger. I confess, I slip sometimes, I think others to as well.

My objections to the war crimes idea include; that there is disagreement on whether they are legally war crimes, the difficulty in going back to all of the surviving leaders of countries to assess various degrees of blame, and the inability of the world to say to other countries "We're going to arrest your former leader and put him on trial." I suspect that the US, Russia, China, and many other countries would say, "No way, ain't gonna happen."

I disagree with your point about materialism, though. Jimmy Carter, Ban Ki Moon, Valerie Jarrett, the Pope, and many others have status not based on materialism. But I do agree that some people have status only because of wealth, Soros, the Koch brothers, etc.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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Hahahaha!... The Pope. That's a good one... always makes me laugh. The Pope's a really good joke.

But yeah... How did the Pope get his status anyway? Oh yeah, God gave it to him... that's right.

I tend to ALWAYS forget that for some reason.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by NotAnAspie
 

Dear NotAnAspie,

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I used the Pope as an example of a person with status who didn't gain that status through wealth. If he got his status from God, then it wasn't by materialism.

The point's still the same even if you take the Pope from the list. I'd be happy to discuss the materialism v. status question, or the one that was the basis for this thread, war crimes. I've stated my position on both, do you disagree with either?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 



That is a ludicrous position. Perhaps the sadistic or spiteful act was the taking of another persons life.


No, it's a logical position.

The purpose behind the penal system and judicial sentences was to provide reparations for damages rendered by an individual (in the case of property damage or socially damaging actions warranting a fine) and to remove perpetually harmful and/or dangerous individuals from society so that they could plague it no more.

It is -not- a system for you to judge another person's character. It is a system to preserve the function of society - an immune system, if you will.


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana


There is a distinct difference between remembering the past and living in it.

If a person has committed homicide in the past (we'll let the motivations remain ambiguous) and he/she has since become a lawfully compliant individual within society having a productive and healthy lifestyle - is it remembering the past to then imprison that individual and strip him/her of a healthy lifestyle? Or is it living in the past?

reply to post by intrptr
 



Thats part of the problem. The top criminals crowd the positions around them with other aspiring prodigees who take over the reins as it were.


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

I thought you had balls. I thought you were a free thinking individual.

Now you're giving me excuses that "there are criminals all over! What I do means nothing."

Freedom and the responsibility that comes with it will not be your inheritance.


Evil begets more evil on down the line. If we bury their fore fathers we send a message thru the ranks that this behavior is no longer tolerated. That they will be hunted down like Ex Nazis and brought to justice for their actions.


Yes, we need a new group dedicated to purging this generation's Gypsies and Jews.

Do you know why Jesus didn't lead an armed rebellion against Rome as so many other would-be messiahs had attempted during Israel's incorporation as part of the Roman Empire?

A number of reasons - one being that there were few was as efficient at getting flattened by elite roman soldiers than to declare yourself the messiah while gathering up armed, angry followers. Another is that such things are very, very delicate. In seeking to free yourself from one empire - you inadvertently create your own. Even if you are capable of being benevolent and responsible - your life will come to an end and your power will be passed down and fought over for generations to come.

Basically, you're willing to become the very thing you seek to eliminate. And you're self-ignorant enough to believe it's justice.


Constant struggle between the forces of light and darkness. Should never let up.


Unfortunately, you've yet to develop the understanding that the struggle is not between individuals - but within every individual. A person is not wholly evil or wholly good. You are just as capable of committing evil as anyone else is; and the people you see as evil are just as capable of doing good as you are (and likely do some good).

This idealized polarization of character is very damaging to society as a whole, but it is a part of human nature.

reply to post by onecraftydude
 



Maybe you tried to lay some other guilt trip on everyone who disagreed with the war because they were better informed than you.


And perhaps you're just a pretentious fool with a self-praising screen name.


Unfortunately there is no shortage of the uninformed idiots like yourself in this country. You scream how patriotic you are yet you give nothing. Next time you vote for war how about going over there yourself? Put your body where your mouth is tough guy.


It's really easy to view one's self as intelligent when all you do is try to stick words in other people's mouths and labels on their foreheads.

Perhaps you would like to join me in the sand box, where you learn to appreciate mystical things like water falling from the sky and air cooler than your body.

Douche.


BTW, there are plenty of American widows and guys missing legs, arms and genitals who would be happy to see GHW and Cheney charged with war crimes. You are either completely insane or in denial if you think they did nothing wrong.


I really don't appreciate your use of my fellow service member's injuries to justify your blood lust.

I'm sure there are a few of them who would. I know, personally, far more who really don't see things that way, and who would not appreciate your tone in the slightest.



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