Stephen King's Message

Maybe if the President spent the last four years balancing the budget, bring jobs back to america, and encourage growth instead of spending his time attacking the rich and sending his wife on vacations on our dime then maybe our country would be better off.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
So we should just punish them for being rich by taking away 99% of everything they own and giving them to the lazy people who don't want to work because they deserve more than the rich do. Okey dokey, that sounds good to me.

This^ is an example of why the term 'idiot American' was coined.

Reductio ad absurdum statements meant to monger fear is what right wing govts are all about. Critical thinkers can see through this kind of tatami-thin ploy.

Sadly, however, the world is not comprised of only critical thinkers; suffice to say.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by okyouwin

 

Ask around, you'll find out that I'm Mr. Confusion. Believe it or not, your simple, brief post fogged me up again.

Those who have made plenty from the system should willing give back to the system from which they got it. The system works well for you. Works well for a lot of people. Let's keep her going.

What is "The System?" Is it the present policies we have for taxing and spending (Which have been labelled "unsustainable")? Is it having the members of both political parties in charge of the government (While some complain about "gridlock")? Is "The system" the totality of all people living in the country?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy or criticize anything you've said. I am trying to show you how confused I am, and that's all.

Well I can see your confusion. You're listening to way to many people telling you the way things are. The system is the totality of rules, laws and codes of conduct which make up the entity we fondly refer to as The United States of America. Yes it does refer to the democratically elected people who act as our representatives in the making of laws and policies. Policies that construct the infrastructure, both physical, roads, bridges, ports, airports. and metaphysical. as in codes of conduct in the way of contracts and agreements. It is about a system of money that we all agree to. It's about giving everyone a safe and secure environment to live their lives and conduct what we call business with one another.

I think where you are getting confused is in identifying the difficulties and failures of the system, with the system itself.

The one thing that makes the system survive and function is the cooperation of it's participants. This cooperation takes many forms. The most basic of these is the willingness to be governed. To accept that we are a society of folks living within a framework that demands certain expectations of us. And the main reason that we succumb to this being governed and conforming to expectations, is because we get so much from the system that is good. But equally important is that, as a species, we intuitively know that we cannot survive without it.

What King was saying is that a key expectation from the system is the support of it's participants. Those that have navigated the system and have successfully negotiated a greater potion of it's benefits, should be the most grateful to the system, and to joyfully give back extra support, to something which has given them such opportunity and abundance, i.e. higher taxes.

Greed and self interest are undoubtedly human traits, but not our best. It might be instructive to reread the allegory concerning the killing of the goose that laid the golden egg.

Originally posted by pivilu

Originally posted by thinline
"channels making such upward mobility possible are being increasingly clogged" Steven King

Yes, by government. Government can stop you from opening, if your mirrors in your bathroom are the wrong height. Steven King likes big scary things, so that is why he has no problem feeding the beast that is government regulations

Government, this much maligned thing by the uber-rich of a certain inclination (not only Republicans), has been taken over by corporations. It no longer represents you and me. This has been a deliberate and consistent effort by those that wish to become the new masters of this American fiefdom. And it has been done with our unwitting assistance. We are poorly instructed, uneducated and thus, overwhelmingly assimilated to this uneven structure. The first baby step is to review, revise and reinstate the very basics of civic duties. Finagling our way out of paying our fair share, though "legal", is immoral and renders questionable results.

Yeah, what he said.

Originally posted by wdkirk
Would a bank help bail you out if you were going bankrupt? With the bail out of the banks and not the American people our government got to play both sides of the argument. We let them.

Is the federal government making decisions that are for the good of the people? With special interest groups, such as big oil, we have let big business hi-jack the decision making process in out government at all levels.

Do you trust your elected officials? No I do not.

Are the rich at fault in a society that breeds getting rich? No they are not.

Do Americans need to come together to make changes to put this country back on track? Yes we do. Remove the elected officials that cannot make good decisions. Get involved with your government. Make a difference somehow someway.

....or sit back and watch while sucking on a beer/coke/water and eating a pizza/burger/sub and keep repeating "ain't America great?" (it once was)

I agree with you entirely. If our government really cared about the people and not their Wall Street overlords they wouldn't have handed over a trillion dollars so that Wall Street execs could pay themselves multi million dollar bonuses. You know, there could have been some stipulations that went along with that bail out money. Why weren't there any? Wall Street was the #1 cause of the global meltdown and yet nobody was held accountable except for the taxpayer.
If this doesn't prove to us who really runs this government then nothing else will. All of the other issues the politicians argue about (gay marriage/abortion, etc...) are just a distraction designed to keep us all fighting amongst each other. They don't want us to stop fighting one another and start fighting THEM.
This Wall Street government has got to end. Obama hasn't ended it, he's enabled it. Hell, he has the crooks on staff!
So yeah, Stephen King is a good rich guy...I agree....but it's not the rich people like Stephen King that are the problem, it's the influence or Wall Street and big corporations that are the problem.

Originally posted by Hydrawolf
Old news...5 months old infact!

Well, it could be even 100 years old...! It's new to me and i am happy and grateful to be informed about it
Thanks for posting this

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by SG-17

 

Massively increase income tax for high earners, something like 60%, increase taxes on businesses who outsource and give tax breaks for companies that reverse their outsourcing or have their jobs in the US.

And import taxes on companies that outsource should be taxed so high that there is no longer a profit in it.

edit on 1-9-2012 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)

Both suggestions above would do nothing at all to increase revenue for the gov. and would do very much to decrease it.

The U.S. currently has the highest tax rate on corporations in the developed world. Can nobody see that this very policy causes outsourcing?

Can anyone here remember why John Lennon moved to the US? Anybody heard of the Beatle's song "Taxman?"

You put a huge tax on these people and they will absolutely pull up stakes and move. Then where are you?

Right back where you started, that's where.

The key is to raise taxes on EVERYONE, even the poor. When the Bush tax cuts went into effect, a large number of people came off the tax rolls. A larger number of people were charged far less tax.

If you think that taxing more is the answer, then the Bush tax cuts have to be allowed to expire - ALL of the tax cuts.

You could confiscate the entire earnings of every, single person in the top 1% of earners and still hardly dent the deficit. Think about that - take every penny the billionaires make, every year, and we are still spending WAAAY more than we are taking in.

You don't want to cut spending? Fine. Tax the poor then.

Harte

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Some say the rich get richer, by making others work harder and then reaping the fruit of others sweat.
But that isn't borne out by fact ..is it?
Stephen King got rich by collecting money for words he put on paper, perhaps he should drive a bus for awhile or be a cleaner, see how his opinion may change then or not.

Stephen knows better than anyone that there can only be a certain number of horror writers, or else he wouldn't be earning enough to worry about tax.

]
You make it sound as though being a writer is easy work. The man has risen to the top of one of the toughest, most competitive fields possible. That it isnt physical labor doesnt make it any less of work. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that being a successful author is as hard or harder than nearly any career out there.

Sad to see you demean this career as less than others.

Originally posted by Ancient Champion
Maybe if the President spent the last four years balancing the budget, bring jobs back to america, and encourage growth instead of spending his time attacking the rich and sending his wife on vacations on our dime then maybe our country would be better off.

The amount of political trolling on this site has gotten disgusting.

Interesting thread. I am also a fan of King's writings...one of the best mind twisters there is. I like Dean Koontz as well.

I can partly see where the King is trying to come from but I think he represented himself poorly. On one hand, it is true that in this day and age...people generally don't give a rat's @ss about the next guy. It's all about "me"...aka...the "me" generation. Apparently he feels that if the hearts of man has become so hardened as to not be able to loosen the purse strings...someone needs to do it for them.

The problem I have with that...even though there is a painful slice of truth in it (we are selfish)...is...the Government is horrible at managing anything. It has to be the most inept and inefficient organization ever conceived. You give them more money and what do they do? They spend it internally building more bureaucracy... Now instead of a staff of people reviewing claims or requests, you get "managers" and their "superiors" that just suck a paycheck out and try to look important. These "important" people draw down 6 figures, jam up the wheels and intentionally grind the system just to justify themselves "I'm important, I can stop the wheels of progress anytime I choose"...ridiculous.

My feelings is...we should just leave it alone. We cannot force people to be charitable and we cannot hope for a fair and efficient Gov solution...lose-lose...there is not going to be an answer to solve this quandary. I am sure some will bristle up and profess how charitable they are or someone they know is...pointless...save it.

Morally, the "War on Poverty" started by a Republican btw....worked at first and then descended into failure...Nice idea...maybe in another reality it actually worked...but not this one.

I have to throw this pic in, saw it the other day and found it applicable to this type of conversation



me personally? I'd prefer the Gov get the hell out of the way. Let people do whatever they can or need to do to earn a living. As a Libertarian...I think we should let people buy a cart and a cheap grill and sell hot dogs on the side of the road without hassles or regulations, mow lawns without hassles, sell weed, be a stripper or a prostitute...I really and truly do not care...just leave people alone and get out of their way...and people will find a way to survive...just my opinion though. BTW...don't tax the shiz out of them either. let people take care of themselves in whatever way they can and half of the Gov bureaucracy will no longer be needed.

Originally posted by toolgal462

Originally posted by wdkirk
Would a bank help bail you out if you were going bankrupt? With the bail out of the banks and not the American people our government got to play both sides of the argument. We let them.

Is the federal government making decisions that are for the good of the people? With special interest groups, such as big oil, we have let big business hi-jack the decision making process in out government at all levels.

Do you trust your elected officials? No I do not.

Are the rich at fault in a society that breeds getting rich? No they are not.

Do Americans need to come together to make changes to put this country back on track? Yes we do. Remove the elected officials that cannot make good decisions. Get involved with your government. Make a difference somehow someway.

....or sit back and watch while sucking on a beer/coke/water and eating a pizza/burger/sub and keep repeating "ain't America great?" (it once was)

I agree with you entirely. If our government really cared about the people and not their Wall Street overlords they wouldn't have handed over a trillion dollars so that Wall Street execs could pay themselves multi million dollar bonuses. You know, there could have been some stipulations that went along with that bail out money. Why weren't there any? Wall Street was the #1 cause of the global meltdown and yet nobody was held accountable except for the taxpayer.
If this doesn't prove to us who really runs this government then nothing else will. All of the other issues the politicians argue about (gay marriage/abortion, etc...) are just a distraction designed to keep us all fighting amongst each other. They don't want us to stop fighting one another and start fighting THEM.
This Wall Street government has got to end. Obama hasn't ended it, he's enabled it. Hell, he has the crooks on staff!
So yeah, Stephen King is a good rich guy...I agree....but it's not the rich people like Stephen King that are the problem, it's the influence or Wall Street and big corporations that are the problem.

Hey this is great. You guys are right on target with this. You understand where the corruption originates, or at least from where it is funded. You're right about a need for reform. Who to blame? The criminal class. They saw their chance to game the system and they took it. How do we take it back? Not easy.

As to the President's performance, being inadequate. I think you are being a little harsh. You admitted yourself the entrenched nature of this problem, and offered some somewhat thin remedies. Considering the momentum of the problem I think He's done a pretty fair job of keeping things afloat.

Maybe it's time for the stiff negotiation Us or them. Now I don't use that phrase lightly. But there are a group of us who have accumulated enough so as to separate themselves, almost completely from the majority of human experience.So in a sense, they have become a them.They are very powerful, and I must say a bit reactionary. So you must take caution. Oh no. Don't underestimate these boys. Obama might have taken the only tone available.

It's a long game. don't be fooled. But it really is time to regain balance. The direction of the ship state needs to be turned gently. I'm not stupid either, history shows this is seldom, indeed if ever, accomplished.

reply to post by okyouwin


I agree with you except for one thing: Why should Obama get a pass? He has Timothy Geitner as his Treasury Secretary and Larry Summers on his advisory board (to name only 2). If this doesn't tell you that he is either complicit with the Wall Street thievery or wholly owned by them I don't know what else will.
I don't excuse him. I will vote 3rd party and keep speaking out against the plutocracy that America has become.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Some say the rich get richer, by making others work harder and then reaping the fruit of others sweat.
But that isn't borne out by fact ..is it?
Stephen King got rich by collecting money for words he put on paper, perhaps he should drive a bus for awhile or be a cleaner, see how his opinion may change then or not.

Stephen knows better than anyone that there can only be a certain number of horror writers, or else he wouldn't be earning enough to worry about tax.

You make it sound as though being a writer is easy work. The man has risen to the top of one of the toughest, most competitive fields possible. That it isnt physical labor doesnt make it any less of work. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that being a successful author is as hard or harder than nearly any career out there.

Sad to see you demean this career as less than others.

You twist the meaning of Dr Expireds post most acutely.
But alas such is that , which eats heartily the soul of man.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Uh, no, your comment isn't even remotely relevant to the article. Read it before replying.

Uh.. No.. I didn't read the source.. I read your synopsis in your opening post. According to that, EvilSadamClone's comments are 100% on topic.

I'll add that I don't think the middle or lower class should be taxed unfairly. ( Don't tell me that's not on-topic.. I'm getting it from your synopsis - or does your synopsis talk about something totally different than the source?)

I think everyone should be taxed equally a percentage of what you earn, no matter how much you make. Thats fair.

But I can see the flip side too. If you work doubly hard all your life to become rich, and in that, you have contributed to the economy more than most people, then perhaps getting a tax break is like a reward. It's a way of saying I paid my dues, now cut me some slack. Perhaps that's the perception many rich people have.. I dunno.. I'm not rich.

Originally posted by buster2010
Has anyone noticed that the people who earned their wealth seems to have no problem paying taxes? The ones that are always whining about taxes are the ones who inherited their wealth the ones who didn't work for it. Unless you call waiting for mommy and daddy to die working.

Er.. No. I haven't noticed that. What hat did you pull those bogus stats out of?

I think everyone is concerned about taxation. I think the reason is taxes aren't adjusted for inflation. You may have to give up that same chunk of cash but your income doesn't buy what it used to - that chunk is sorely missed. And the taxes keep going up making it worse every year. If your dollar is only worth 20 cents and the Government demands over 1/4 of it's worth, your screwed. You get taxed at the government, state and local level - sometimes taxed twice or three times for the same items - what a racket!

I live below middle class by choice. I cut grass for a living in my spare time after working in the corporate sector for over 20 years. I bought my own house and said Bye Bye. At 44 now, I do just enough work to pay the bills each month and that makes me happy. I have everything I need and want. It just so happens I don't have a lot of wants or ambitions. I do know that one day, I will inherit about a half a million dollars in cash and property. This is a fact and I have to live with it. I am in no way, waiting for mommy and daddy to die. i don't think most people take that attitude. How insulting you are!

When that times comes, I'll be willing to pay my fair share of taxes. I won't like it though, I know the dollar will have fallen some more by then than the taxes will have risen too.

So, technically, it's a call for higher taxes for those who have money?

Think about it this way, if the taxes are heightened for people that make a certain income, how can there be any kind of upward mobility in terms of making money. People who are working their tail off to earn that kind of money are going to hit the bottom of that tax bracket and be destroyed because all the rich, and all the idiots (not any of you for the sake of not starting a fight) who listen to them, think it's a good idea. This is just what I see as what will possibly happen if they go ahead with this idea. Being a business owner myself, I don't want to have to deal with a sudden barrage of heightened taxes when I hit that tax bracket because it's going to hurt me in the long run and keep me from making money that I'm working hard for. Does this seem selfish to you? Probably. And I can take a few guesses as to why. But I don't see a daggone thing selfish about it. It's part of the friggin' American Dream!

'Merica!

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Some say the rich get richer, by making others work harder and then reaping the fruit of others sweat.
But that isn't borne out by fact ..is it?
Stephen King got rich by collecting money for words he put on paper, perhaps he should drive a bus for awhile or be a cleaner, see how his opinion may change then or not.

Stephen knows better than anyone that there can only be a certain number of horror writers, or else he wouldn't be earning enough to worry about tax.

Maybe he also knows that collecting an additional 60-70 billion a year against a 16 trillion dollar deficit is probably the wrong way to try and reduce the deficit. Obama and the dems are playing class warfare. Plain and simple. King seems like a smart enough man but I guess doesn't care that Barry promised to unite, be everyone's president, and yet all he's done is play politics of division. I'm not even rich and I'm not for raising taxes on people who simply happen to be more successful than I am. If the last 4 years haven't opened people's eyes and made us understand that you cannot spend your way out of a recession, then we deserve to continue to fail and fail miserably. Maybe King can write a scary book against the backdrop of an economic depression and loss of any moral compass.

Originally posted by Dr Expired

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Some say the rich get richer, by making others work harder and then reaping the fruit of others sweat.
But that isn't borne out by fact ..is it?
Stephen King got rich by collecting money for words he put on paper, perhaps he should drive a bus for awhile or be a cleaner, see how his opinion may change then or not.

Stephen knows better than anyone that there can only be a certain number of horror writers, or else he wouldn't be earning enough to worry about tax.

You make it sound as though being a writer is easy work. The man has risen to the top of one of the toughest, most competitive fields possible. That it isnt physical labor doesnt make it any less of work. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that being a successful author is as hard or harder than nearly any career out there.

Sad to see you demean this career as less than others.

You twist the meaning of Dr Expireds post most acutely.
But alas such is that , which eats heartily the soul of man.

Tell me, what exactly did you mean, then, by "Stephen King got rich by collecting money for words he put on paper, perhaps he should drive a bus"?

A tax break doesn't seem to be the same thing as a loop hole, but I want to see the same tax breaks for all citizens, rich and poor alike. It's wrong to give one person another tax break that another person can't get.

Same rates for all citizens.

As far as "idiot American" goes, that's the perfect example of why I don't place any value on logic and critical thinking. It turns people into arrogant elitist snobs who have no respect for other people who don't think and express their views like them. All logic does is turn people into arrogant sobs. All they do is insult and berate people who don't use it to no end because they feel they're just so much better than anybody else.

I'm sick and tired of a world where everybody demands to be respected and nobody gives any back.

Respect is in how you treat other people, and they way to earn it is to treat other people with respect.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Hardly worth a response. But here it is anyway. The top 5% of income earners pay something like 50% of all the federal tax collected. The bottom pay nearly ,or nothing. The tax code is progressive, remember? If you make a million you pay more than the average 30%. Which in itself would be $300, 000. If you make $50,000 you pay an avg of 30%. Which is $15,000. See how math works? You are being lied to, and swallowing it whole. Sure Romney has a ton of money, he earned it in business. And no doubt he has a bunch of it overseas to avoid taxes. But this is LEGAL to do. Do you really think he would be running for high office, having to disclose tax returns, if it was otherwise? You are falling victim to the class warfare put out by some candidates. They want to raise taxes on the "rich" to fix problems they have caused. But their definition of "rich" is probably not yours. They will increase taxes on small business (because they fit their definition) and therefore kill job growth. Do some research. Being rich is not supposed to be a crime in a free country...