Stephen King's Message

Originally posted by Paceryder

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by buster2010

 

Basically what all that means is that King thinks that wealthy people are mostly not enough like him...ie...not as unselfish as him and that it requires govt to make them "do their fair share". So in effect, because King can afford to make donations, he wants the govt to force others to, he's a Statist through and through.

I think it's more of a difference between King knowing how lucky he has been and people like Romney think they're entitled. It's the difference between new money and old.

How do you know who feels entitled and who doesn't? You don't but because the liberal media is bashing Romney and some wealthy writer says tax me you think you know what's what.

reply to post by pivilu

This can be complicated, and I'm certainly not an expert. But 80% of Americans have an effective tax rate below 15%. money.cnn.com... (to help make this clear, this number is only looking at federal income taxes, but all of the hullaballoo over Romney seems to be centered on his income tax returns, so I don't think I'm being unfair.)

In 2007, the last numbers I've found, the bottom 20% got about 7% of their income back from the IRS, the next 20% got about 1/2% back, the next 20 % (those in the middle) paid about 3 1/2% of their income in income tax, the next paid about 6%, and the top 20% paid about 14 1/2 %
www.taxpolicycenter.org...

The top 20% are paying twice as much of their income than anyone else, and the bottom 40% are getting paid by the IRS. Does this seem that the rich are getting away with something unfair?

I'm getting the idea from this thread that some are saying:

Government expenditures are the best way to help the poor.
The government doesn't have enough money to help the poor.
The money that the government wants is best obtained by raising taxes on people who have money.

Not surprisingly, I disagree.

reply to post by charles1952


My experience is this, our family pays over 26% of our income in taxes off the top. When we file our taxes, we pay any additional monies owed. We don't get any money back. We don't expect to. Romney is not paying at the same rate because he is not going by income, but rather by capital gains, dividends, etc.. which have a much lower tax rate. And no, we are not rich, by any stretch of the imagination.

I am not upset because Romney, et al are rich. Good for them. I am upset because the system is rigged, the math is faulty and upward mobility, which has been THE signature of these United States of America is getting asphyxiated by some of the people that have made it to the top and are unwilling to afford the same opportunities to future generations. I have progeny, and would like for them to be able to study, work and lead happy and rewarding lives. It would be a shame that our children will be forced to work until they are 75? 90? in order to survive financially. If they are able to find a job. Without benefits of any kind, or minimum wage, or healthcare (not health insurance - don't get me started on that).

And they way the system works, is because we have a government programs to assist the lower 90% of the population.

It used to be that only the wealthy paid taxes. Then the wealthiest paid an exhorbitant amoumt of monies. Which is when all these programs we now take for granted took root. I don't expect them to pay 81% -90% like the did when WWII was being funded, although, we are in the middle of a never ending war effort. Or even 70% like they did though the 60's until 1981. But at the very least, they should pay the same tax rate that someone earning a living at $500K does, which comes to roughly 46%. And that should include ALL of their monies, not just dividends.

And as for the fact that they are job creators, well these have been the lowest tax rates the wealthy (including corporations) have ever had, yet they have refused to create jobs locally, because it's cheaper to pay less than $5000 a year to a telemarketer in India.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
From the Daily Beast;
Stephen King: Tax Me, for F@%&’s Sake!
(thedailybeast.com)

Warning, harsh language at the source.

What charitable 1 percenters can’t do is assume responsibility—America’s national responsibilities: the care of its sick and its poor, the education of its young, the repair of its failing infrastructure, the repayment of its staggering war debts. Charity from the rich can’t fix global warming or lower the price of gasoline by one single red penny. That kind of salvation does not come from Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Ballmer saying, “OK, I’ll write a $2 million bonus check to the IRS.” That annoying responsibility stuff comes from three words that are anathema to the Tea Partiers: United American citizenry.

I guess some of this mad right-wing love comes from the idea that in America, anyone can become a Rich Guy if he just works hard and saves his pennies. Mitt Romney has said, in effect, “I’m rich and I don’t apologize for it.” Nobody wants you to, Mitt. What some of us want—those who aren’t blinded by a lot of bull**** persiflage thrown up to mask the idea that rich folks want to keep their damn money—is for you to acknowledge that you couldn’t have made it in America without America. That you were fortunate enough to be born in a country where upward mobility is possible (a subject upon which Barack Obama can speak with the authority of experience), but where the channels making such upward mobility possible are being increasingly clogged. That it’s not fair to ask the middle class to assume a disproportionate amount of the tax burden. Not fair? It’s un-****ing-American is what it is. I don’t want you to apologize for being rich; I want you to acknowledge that in America, we all should have to pay our fair share. That our civics classes never taught us that being American means that—sorry, kiddies—you’re on your own. That those who have received much must be obligated to pay—not to give, not to “cut a check and shut up,” in Governor Christie’s words, but to pay—in the same proportion. That’s called stepping up and not whining about it. That’s called patriotism, a word the Tea Partiers love to throw around as long as it doesn’t cost their beloved rich folks any money.

Much, MUCH more at the source. One of the best tirades I've heard in a long time, and it speaks to the core of the current ongoing political dissension.

There was a time when people viewed the government as a public service, there to provide for the common good of all Americans, rich and poor. The government wasn't a for-profit corporation, out to keep itself in the black, nor was it means to control and dominate every facet of your social or personal life, by invasive privacy-robbing dominionists. People used to believe in America, that's why they were willing to pay their fair into the system, to keep it strong. But now we have a class of super-wealthy elite, who are doing everything they can to undermine that system, to keep the system so skewed in their favor that it all but eliminates the ability for competition - it reduces America to a vassal state of the select wealthy.

When I see the Uber rich Dems, or any liberal for that matter not taking anything but the standard deduction on a 1040A and no taking any other deductions in hopes of paying their fair share I'll believe they mean what they say. But they don't, just like the rest of the people they hire an accountant, go to a tax person, or buy the new flavor of turbo tax and look for a way to pay the least possible tax they can. So I guess it's only the right thing to do when they are forced into it?

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
From the Daily Beast;
Stephen King: Tax Me, for F@%&’s Sake!
(thedailybeast.com)

Warning, harsh language at the source.

What charitable 1 percenters can’t do is assume responsibility—America’s national responsibilities: the care of its sick and its poor, the education of its young, the repair of its failing infrastructure, the repayment of its staggering war debts. Charity from the rich can’t fix global warming or lower the price of gasoline by one single red penny. That kind of salvation does not come from Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Ballmer saying, “OK, I’ll write a $2 million bonus check to the IRS.” That annoying responsibility stuff comes from three words that are anathema to the Tea Partiers: United American citizenry.

I guess some of this mad right-wing love comes from the idea that in America, anyone can become a Rich Guy if he just works hard and saves his pennies. Mitt Romney has said, in effect, “I’m rich and I don’t apologize for it.” Nobody wants you to, Mitt. What some of us want—those who aren’t blinded by a lot of bull**** persiflage thrown up to mask the idea that rich folks want to keep their damn money—is for you to acknowledge that you couldn’t have made it in America without America. That you were fortunate enough to be born in a country where upward mobility is possible (a subject upon which Barack Obama can speak with the authority of experience), but where the channels making such upward mobility possible are being increasingly clogged. That it’s not fair to ask the middle class to assume a disproportionate amount of the tax burden. Not fair? It’s un-****ing-American is what it is. I don’t want you to apologize for being rich; I want you to acknowledge that in America, we all should have to pay our fair share. That our civics classes never taught us that being American means that—sorry, kiddies—you’re on your own. That those who have received much must be obligated to pay—not to give, not to “cut a check and shut up,” in Governor Christie’s words, but to pay—in the same proportion. That’s called stepping up and not whining about it. That’s called patriotism, a word the Tea Partiers love to throw around as long as it doesn’t cost their beloved rich folks any money.

Much, MUCH more at the source. One of the best tirades I've heard in a long time, and it speaks to the core of the current ongoing political dissension.

There was a time when people viewed the government as a public service, there to provide for the common good of all Americans, rich and poor. The government wasn't a for-profit corporation, out to keep itself in the black, nor was it means to control and dominate every facet of your social or personal life, by invasive privacy-robbing dominionists. People used to believe in America, that's why they were willing to pay their fair into the system, to keep it strong. But now we have a class of super-wealthy elite, who are doing everything they can to undermine that system, to keep the system so skewed in their favor that it all but eliminates the ability for competition - it reduces America to a vassal state of the select wealthy.

If there is anything to take away from what Mr King said, is that everyone should be paying their fair share.
There is only ONE way to make that happen. Scrap the existing TAX CODE and institute a NATIONAL SALES TAX of 8.50%. That TAX would apply across the board for everyone, no matter how rich or how poor. The RICH will always buy their toys and making them pay 8.50% National Sales Tax on those items will certainly make them pay MORE tax because they can afford those high priced items. Their homes, cars, yachts, boats, planes .... all of it. The ONLY thing NOT TAXABLE would be FOOD. Outside of that, it is VERY FAIR and EQUITABLE.

"channels making such upward mobility possible are being increasingly clogged" Steven King

Yes, by government. Government can stop you from opening, if your mirrors in your bathroom are the wrong height. Steven King likes big scary things, so that is why he has no problem feeding the beast that is government regulations

Stephen King can write a great book. But like most of the super-rich left he is basically full of junk. This guy pisses me off almost as much as Warren Buffet, naming themselves the saviors of the world by coming off as enlightened pricks. Almost as bad as the ultra-left hollywood stars with no grip on reality. I feel like half the people who comment on this stuff aren't mad because the rich aren't taxed enough, they're mad because they themselves aren't rich and need a way to get back. Anyone can become rich, it's just that most are afraid to take risk so they sit on the sidelines their entire lives commenting on things they know nothing about.

Most people that are rich have started their own company in one way or another. Do you all realize how difficult it is to start and maintain a company due to all of our current taxes and regulations? It's killing the economy. To think people want to add to those issues is saddening. The truth is, most of the rich give more back in charity for the people than you childish whiny lot ever will.

Instead of wasting your time worrying about what the rich do, why don't you just worry about yourself. The amount of taxes THEY pay has nothing to do with the taxes YOU pay. No matter how much more money is given to the government it will just be wasted.

Originally posted by thinline
"channels making such upward mobility possible are being increasingly clogged" Steven King

Yes, by government. Government can stop you from opening, if your mirrors in your bathroom are the wrong height. Steven King likes big scary things, so that is why he has no problem feeding the beast that is government regulations

Government, this much maligned thing by the uber-rich of a certain inclination (not only Republicans), has been taken over by corporations. It no longer represents you and me. This has been a deliberate and consistent effort by those that wish to become the new masters of this American fiefdom. And it has been done with our unwitting assistance. We are poorly instructed, uneducated and thus, overwhelmingly assimilated to this uneven structure. The first baby step is to review, revise and reinstate the very basics of civic duties. Finagling our way out of paying our fair share, though "legal", is immoral and renders questionable results.

Originally posted by LiberLegit
Stephen King can write a great book. But like most of the super-rich left he is basically full of junk. This guy pisses me off almost as much as Warren Buffet, naming themselves the saviors of the world by coming off as enlightened pricks. Almost as bad as the ultra-left hollywood stars with no grip on reality. I feel like half the people who comment on this stuff aren't mad because the rich aren't taxed enough, they're mad because they themselves aren't rich and need a way to get back. Anyone can become rich, it's just that most are afraid to take risk so they sit on the sidelines their entire lives commenting on things they know nothing about.

Most people that are rich have started their own company in one way or another. Do you all realize how difficult it is to start and maintain a company due to all of our current taxes and regulations? It's killing the economy. To think people want to add to those issues is saddening. The truth is, most of the rich give more back in charity for the people than you childish whiny lot ever will.

Instead of wasting your time worrying about what the rich do, why don't you just worry about yourself. The amount of taxes THEY pay has nothing to do with the taxes YOU pay. No matter how much more money is given to the government it will just be wasted.

I worry about myself, my children, my children's children, my community and our nation. The amount of taxes they pay IS my business. Much in the same way the amount of taxes I pay is everybody else's business. It goes to the common pot. We all enjoy the FAA, our wonderful road infrastructure (disheveled as it is) and many other programs we subsidize with our taxes. And no, the truth is not that the rich give more in charity than the rest of us: philanthropy.com...

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

I believe it was a taught mindset just as survival of the fittest. Everything we see on media and learn in school is a programming we should steer away from, not continue to spread, as if it has any reasoning and advise we need to teach today. We need real Acedemics. The kind you can only get by recovering the history books that were taken out of society by the controlling elite, teaching accounting, trust laws,remedy and commerce the system we find ourselves into today. How else can our clans learn to survive in such a volitile system when they are not taught the basics?

reply to post by Labrynth2012

There is only ONE way to make that happen. Scrap the existing TAX CODE and institute a NATIONAL SALES TAX of 8.50%. That TAX would apply across the board for everyone, no matter how rich or how poor. The RICH will always buy their toys and making them pay 8.50% National Sales Tax on those items will certainly make them pay MORE tax because they can afford those high priced items. Their homes, cars, yachts, boats, planes .... all of it. The ONLY thing NOT TAXABLE would be FOOD. Outside of that, it is VERY FAIR and EQUITABLE.

There's a flaw in this logic - many wealthy sit on charities that are exempt from paying sales taxes, and let's face it, many people are corrupt and would abuse the charity status for themselves to avoid paying these sales taxes. My own personal experience, having worked on a design and construction of a large VFW and another Eagles club (both having tax-exempt status) I watched as the millionaire owners bought all sorts of personal items through their clubs, groceries to furniture, without paying any sales taxes. I would hazard a guess that if the government imposed a national sales tax, you would see rampant abuse of charities in this fashion.

There's also another problem with the idea of a federal national sales tax, which would be imposed on top of all state and city sales taxes, is that it would make the simple cost of living TOO EXPENSIVE for those living at or below the poverty line.

Think about what a national sales tax would do to commerce. The wealthy will just flock to offshore locales to buy their luxury items. The poor will be squeezed even more. The middle class will cut way back on their consumption, the retail economy will take a big hit.

I agree the tax code needs some fixing, but to impose a national sales tax would be horrible.

Originally posted by pivilu

Originally posted by LiberLegit
Stephen King can write a great book. But like most of the super-rich left he is basically full of junk. This guy pisses me off almost as much as Warren Buffet, naming themselves the saviors of the world by coming off as enlightened pricks. Almost as bad as the ultra-left hollywood stars with no grip on reality. I feel like half the people who comment on this stuff aren't mad because the rich aren't taxed enough, they're mad because they themselves aren't rich and need a way to get back. Anyone can become rich, it's just that most are afraid to take risk so they sit on the sidelines their entire lives commenting on things they know nothing about.

Most people that are rich have started their own company in one way or another. Do you all realize how difficult it is to start and maintain a company due to all of our current taxes and regulations? It's killing the economy. To think people want to add to those issues is saddening. The truth is, most of the rich give more back in charity for the people than you childish whiny lot ever will.

Instead of wasting your time worrying about what the rich do, why don't you just worry about yourself. The amount of taxes THEY pay has nothing to do with the taxes YOU pay. No matter how much more money is given to the government it will just be wasted.

I worry about myself, my children, my children's children, my community and our nation. The amount of taxes they pay IS my business. Much in the same way the amount of taxes I pay is everybody else's business. It goes to the common pot. We all enjoy the FAA, our wonderful road infrastructure (disheveled as it is) and many other programs we subsidize with our taxes. And no, the truth is not that the rich give more in charity than the rest of us: philanthropy.com...

and you honestly believe that a differences in the tax payments would really encourage the government to make any kind of change in the way that they spend our money? The more money they get, the more they will only waste. I agree with just having a clear across the board tax rate. Also, the link you required listed money payment in percentages. 2% of a rich person's income going to charity is above and beyond the amount 4% of any normal person's income.

reply to post by LiberLegit


Yes 2% of 20 million is a higher amount of money than 10% of $50K, but not the same percentage and therefore not the same financial repercussions. It is unequal, and this inequity is the source of our many socio-economic problems. If we are going to live in a society as equals, then we should all apport equally, in the same percentage.

As for the government's role in the distribution of funds, it is up to us to ensure that it does. Eliminating partisan points of view and working towards the common good of ALL of the citizens, not just the very few is a step in the right direction. I don't wish anyone misfortune or harm, to the contrary, I wish everyone success. Every single person. This is anathema to the current system. There is no them/us. It's just us. ALL of us..

“So we should just punish them for being rich by taking away 99% of everything they own and giving them to the lazy people who don't want to work because they deserve more than the rich do. Okey dokey, that sounds good to me.”
EvilSadamClone

????? Your “argument” commits at least 5 fallacies. Here is a list. Find them yourself. I’m tried of teaching elementary logic.
en.wikipedia.org...
Here I will get you started,
1. en.wikipedia.org...
2. en.wikipedia.org...

““So we should just punish them for being rich by taking away 99% of everything they own”
EvilSadamClone
Who said anything about 99%? The rich now pay less % in taxes then the middle class.

“giving them to the lazy people who don't want to work”
EvilSadamClone
WOW! So the middle class is lazy!!!

“who don't want to work”
EvilSadamClone
Actually, the poor work harder ( most have 2 or more jobs) then the leisure class that makes their money (like Romney) by betting on the productivity of the middle class.* They should have poor people go into Romney’s neighborhood and teach Romney and his friends the value of work!

Anyway, it is obvious that your post was pure gibberish.

* Do you actually call this work?
www.youtube.com...
And “those other people’s money” he started Bain with?
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Whether or not the rich give to the poor should be a choice, not a forced act by the government. That's my opinion on the matter. If I were poor I wouldn't feel the government should force rich people to pay me. It should be by choice and all people, EVERYONE, in my opinion should work equally towards that cause. The poor should help one another and the rich should help them too. And if it is forced, it should be a flat tax paid by all people of all demographics.

I agree! Everyone should pay their fair share!

Romney's plan taxes the middle class more ( an average of $2,000 more then Obama) and gives that money (in decreased taxes) to the mega wealthy, that are already taxed less then the middle class!!!
I say tax the speculators at least as much as those that work and create value!!!
I think it is better for the country to be based on the en.wikipedia.org... rather then the gambler’s ethic that Romney advocates.
Of course Romney’s message has great appeal. Many people are convinced that they will be the next en.wikipedia.org... . Guess what?! It’s a big club and you ain’t in it!
www.youtube.com...
Why does Romney want to reduce funds for education? Watch the above video!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I've admired Stephen King ever since I realized that he speaks the truth that no one wants to hear. If there's a dark reality lurking in the heart of a matter, he's the one to drag it out and describe it in the most depressingly un-sugarcoated terms that one can possibly confront a man desperately avoiding the darker side of life with.

And really, because of all the head-in-the-sand syndrome that the people have willingly afflicted themselves with, I support that mindset that Stephen King brings to the dinner table like Mom's old-fashioned casserole that is skirted like a leper. I just watched The Tall Man, and during one scene, Jessica Biel's character talks about how the system is broken, and trying to help break the cycle by allowing the younger generation a chance to really grow. I won't ruin the movie, but that's the line of thinking that Stephen King is circling right here, from the impression I got while reading the article.

And that's part of why I look up to the guy...he's a realist, and he's not afraid of dragging a dead rat from a crack in the wall, holding it in the air by its tail for all to see, and saying, "Hey guys, listen the f*** up, we have a problem here. What are you planning to do about it?"

edit on 1-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I don't know. Your whole take is pretty involved. I think he's making a simple statement. Those who have made plenty from the system should willing give back to the system from which they got it. The system works well for you. Works well for a lot of people. Let's keep her going.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
So we should just punish them for being rich by taking away 99% of everything they own and giving them to the lazy people who don't want to work because they deserve more than the rich do. Okey dokey, that sounds good to me.

Which is why I believe in the flat tax, with no loop holes.

Even though i am not American a flat tax would work in many places, A flat tax and 100% open on government spending, down to the cent.

One tax for everyone at the same level. After all is that not the fairest way, that everyone pays exactly the same as the next.

Ya never know more people might be willing to start up companies that would hire more people that would generate more income. that would lower the need for huge government loans, to eventually pay those loans back to raising the standards of living,

Na to hard.

reply to post by okyouwin

Ask around, you'll find out that I'm Mr. Confusion. Believe it or not, your simple, brief post fogged me up again.

Those who have made plenty from the system should willing give back to the system from which they got it. The system works well for you. Works well for a lot of people. Let's keep her going.

What is "The System?" Is it the present policies we have for taxing and spending (Which have been labelled "unsustainable")? Is it having the members of both political parties in charge of the government (While some complain about "gridlock")? Is "The system" the totality of all people living in the country?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy or criticize anything you've said. I am trying to show you how confused I am, and that's all.