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Democracy aint workin (talk me down)

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posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by thepresident
 




Democracy is the very engine that let's us have input into the Republic.

Yes it is. Which is why I used the words "self governance" at the end. You rightly say, democracy is a "component" of our Republic, not a definition of our form of government. Our form of government allows us to self-govern without the 51% taking away the other 49%'s rights. Our Constitution is the law of the land we follow to keep the majority, or the minority for that matter, from trampling individual rights, and making up the rules as they go along for the rest of us.

Democracy by itself is nothing more than mob rule, and majority mentality. It doesn't allow for individual rights among the majority.




posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Its working just fine for those who invest a lot of resources towards politicians.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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Show me ONE state/country that IS or
HAS been democratic ruled..

There is no democracy in the TRUE sence.
Its all CAPITALISTIC ruling. With a twist.
The twist is GOVERNMENT. You cant
have a gvmnt in a capitalistic system.

In the stoneage i belive the groups of
ppl were led by one man. His job was
to make sure the group was getting
along, getting enough food and be safe.
Todays leaders expect US to do that for
them and pay them for it too...



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Cassius666
Its working just fine for those who invest a lot of resources towards politicians.


Yep, best government money can buy.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Democracy, in the true sense of the word, has not yet been tried in a modern world that excludes discrimination based on gender, race, or religion (all three and any others) as well as in a society that does not allow legal slavery.

When the US was created, women had no rights in a democratic system and slavery was a fact of life.
This was also true in Athens when Pericles was leader.

However, there were aspects of Athenian democracy that the American Republic version of so-called democracy lacks...namely the opportunity for everyone to be granted an audience with the senate...and the public vote on every issue.

If we all had to vote on every bill...we'd never get anything else done. That could be the solution to over-legislation...in a perfect world.

But having the chance to speak to Congress would be wonderful!
Well, for everyone but Congress, that is.

I can't talk you down because I agree with you.

The days of protests are effectively over....we've been dumbed-down and distracted by the increasingly difficult issue of personal survival.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 



I truly hope I am wrong. It would be so refreshing to see people come together with the goal of fixing whats broken.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


I hope you are wrong, too...I think you might be. Perhaps the methods are changing...we as a race...the human race, that is...are evolving...so must our ways of reform, too, I would think.

More than that, I know not.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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The issue I see with American-style democracy is the excessive layers of bureaucracy and how often those in power get changed out. The way I look at it, either all public offices should have limits on how long someone can serve, or none should. The 8-year limit on the presidency bothers me a lot as well. Elections every four years, alright, most countries do that. But the American cycle is more like one year getting into office and doing nothing, two years of work and then right back out campaigning again. And in that time the House and Senate can be completely changed. My suggestion would be this: eliminate the Senate entirely, and hold a general election for both Congress and the presidency at the same time. In other words, switch to a parliamentary system.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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John Adams: Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.

Thomas Jefferson: A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.

James Madison: Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.

John Quincy Adams: The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.

Thomas Jefferson: The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

Benjamin Franklin (maybe): Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

James Madison: Democracy was the right of the people to choose their own tyrant.

John Marshall: Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.

Oscar Wilde: Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.

Winston Churchill: The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

Sydney J Harris: Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be.

G. K., Chesterton: Democracy means government by the uneducated, while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.

George Bernard Shaw: Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

Dr Laurence J Peter: Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame.

Alan Coren: Democracy consists of choosing your dictators after they've told you what you think it is you want to hear.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


I don't think we will have the problems that we have now for very long . The Global Government/ NWO will supply you with a new government and rule book for living within that government . Feudalism is not great to live under and if you make it through the population culling you can give it a try . You will dream about what you have today and say those were the good old days .



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


I hope you are wrong, too...I think you might be. Perhaps the methods are changing...we as a race...the human race, that is...are evolving...so must our ways of reform, too, I would think.

More than that, I know not.


BTW, the root of the problem isnt war, it's the money that war generates. Money truly isthe root of all evil.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by ShadeWolf
The issue I see with American-style democracy is the excessive layers of bureaucracy and how often those in power get changed out. The way I look at it, either all public offices should have limits on how long someone can serve, or none should. The 8-year limit on the presidency bothers me a lot as well. Elections every four years, alright, most countries do that. But the American cycle is more like one year getting into office and doing nothing, two years of work and then right back out campaigning again. And in that time the House and Senate can be completely changed. My suggestion would be this: eliminate the Senate entirely, and hold a general election for both Congress and the presidency at the same time. In other words, switch to a parliamentary system.


Term limits are bad. It's the ignorance of the voter that causes the problem. As for bureaucracy, I agree. And dont forget all the laws we cooked up. you need a computer and really good search skills to find out if somethings legal. Then you need a team of lawyers to define your search results. This doesnt scale well



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


If they werent right it'd be funny.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


I don't think we will have the problems that we have now for very long . The Global Government/ NWO will supply you with a new government and rule book for living within that government . Feudalism is not great to live under and if you make it through the population culling you can give it a try . You will dream about what you have today and say those were the good old days .


I take issue with thiseven though you dont sound serious. The thought that there is somebody or group that pulls the strings is naive. Dont get me wrong, there are people a groups who try to control events but ultimately they overlook certain consequnces and fail. Nobod can control reality. It's like sand through the fingers.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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Just what do you want people to go out and get riled up about? Americans have it easier and better than ever. Our poor would be the middle class in most of the world. When you get past the hyperbole and look at history and statistics we leave in one the if the most peaceful prosperous time in history Even in the case of war so few Americans have been killed in conflicts when compared to Vietnam and before, not to mention its all volunteers. Does American have problems? Sure. What nation does not. However much we like to pretend we have it so hard and so bad, the fact is life is good. People do not when they have no need to.



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


I disagree with the term limits thing. If candidate X has been running things to the satisfaction of the electorate for the past 8 years, why should they be forced to vote for candidate Y after that time limit is up?



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


You my friend have not kept up with things . You haven't ever heard of the G8, G20 , CFR , Trilateral Commission the NWO . The NWO that president GHW Bush raved about on national TV . I don't guess you have heard of the UN Agenda 21 and it's real plan to do away with private property and private homes . You either under estimate the Global government people or rely completely on the dirty crooked politicians that are in office not to sell us out .
I didn't think that there were any NWO deniers left after they read Agenda 21 . Or have you ?



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by MrSpad
Just what do you want people to go out and get riled up about? Americans have it easier and better than ever. Our poor would be the middle class in most of the world. When you get past the hyperbole and look at history and statistics we leave in one the if the most peaceful prosperous time in history Even in the case of war so few Americans have been killed in conflicts when compared to Vietnam and before, not to mention its all volunteers. Does American have problems? Sure. What nation does not. However much we like to pretend we have it so hard and so bad, the fact is life is good. People do not when they have no need to.


Folliwing the state of global finances I feel that while life may seem good, the deeper truth is that the house of cards is getting ready to fall. Then things wont seem so good. I want people to rise up and first take responsibility for the mess we have created. Once we acknowledge the problem we will need to start thinking for ourselves and elect real leadership. It's a slim hope but all we have short of letting the whole thing fall down and try to rebuild from scratch.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


You my friend have not kept up with things . You haven't ever heard of the G8, G20 , CFR , Trilateral Commission the NWO . The NWO that president GHW Bush raved about on national TV . I don't guess you have heard of the UN Agenda 21 and it's real plan to do away with private property and private homes . You either under estimate the Global government people or rely completely on the dirty crooked politicians that are in office not to sell us out .
I didn't think that there were any NWO deniers left after they read Agenda 21 . Or have you ?


To think that anyone could control our reality I think is not realistic. There are far too many variables. People dont live long enough and generation to generation they tend to drift in terms of agenda. Look atthe catholic church. They've been all over the map over the centuries and constantly in a state of damage control. Why wouldnt it be any different for the "elite"?

All you have mentioned are acronyms for organizations whos membership is constantly changing. New ideas and resistance make these organizations subject to change in terms of policy. Unless you really brainwash people (and I mean really brainwash), they will be influenced in different ways. New members may only be on board for 90% of the agenda. Over time that 10% gets higher until the orginal agenda morphs into something else.

No man or organization can maintain control of an agenda unless that agenda follows natural forces. The agendas you cite are not natural and go against the flow that is required for any permanancy.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard
 


I disagree with the term limits thing. If candidate X has been running things to the satisfaction of the electorate for the past 8 years, why should they be forced to vote for candidate Y after that time limit is up?


Thats what I meant. The people as a whole should decide when its time to clean house.



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