Democracy aint workin (talk me down)

First of all this thread isnt meant to endorse any form of government.

I am pessimistic about things getting better but when I read the headlines and talk to people I see that they are either ignorant of whats happening and/or thinking everything is fine. They are more interested in things I see as less important than the elephant in the room.

It's not all about me. It's about us. WE are the ones who dug this hole. Problem is there are very few that are really trying to get us out. When I was young my father took me to the May Day demonstration in DC (1971). We marched. It was awesome how many people were there peacefully demonstrating. We took over the nations capital peacefully with few issues. That was the protest included in Forest Gump where he got up and spoke to the masses. Simply incredible, gives me chills thinking about it. That generation, me included, stopped the vietnam war. We forced the establisments hand and they withdrew from indochina. That was the america I remember. Now many of those that participated have fallen asleep and the youth of today are more prone to violence than peaceful resistance.

Now try to do that. Number one nobody shows up. Number two the Government surrounds you with military like forces that are armed with weapons to shut you down.

People apparently are so consumed by thier lives that they wont take the time to protest. Too afraid to miss a paycheck or get fired or locked up. The occupy movement was a good sign but look what they did to it. Relatively little media coverage. What coverage there was painted them as extremists. Just look them up here on ATS. I went to occupy DC and it was sad, after seeing what a real protest looks like. It was like a group of 2 hundred or so and they were tightly controlled (surrounded) by law enforcement.

So my feeling is that It's going to take a severe slap in the face to get people motivated. Sadly that slap will need to be directed at things they truly care about, their money, their stomachs and their materialistic lifestyle. Like it or not that is whats coming. Not because of some huge conspiracy but by sheer mathematics and logic. We have elected incompetent leaders and will pay the price. We try to control nature instead of working with the natural flow of things. We think that the basic human need is wealth which will lead us to happiness. We are truly lost.

I used to think the hundred monkey effect would kick in. The idea that people would wake up and the numbers would reach critical mass. Democracy allows for this. It's happening but I dont think its happening quick enough to avert the oncoming crisis. I think positive in the sense that when we rebuild we will remember the mistakes we made before. Money wont be the driving force or key ingredient for happiness.

Please debate with me on how we arent headed for a cliff. I want to believe theres still time, I just dont see how it can be true.

If you really think about it, there is no solution to this problem that will come from the people demonstrating.

I cant think of something that will make the Earth planet better as long as there is money and greed, and its society is based on grabbing money and buying items at a faster and faster rate each year until the planet is exhausted.

If society was ruled by people who had everybodys best interest in mind, things would be better. But those people cant compete, because they are not willing to treat others badly and push them down and threaten and compete with them. So they end up taking care of people in different forms instead, and try to do their part to make the planet a slightly better place for everybody.

reply to post by PrimitiveWorld


People react sometimes. Look at WWII. I talk to the elders and they speak of how everyone got on the bandwagon for a common cause. Not sure what caused that. Was it the media? Govt propoganda? Nowadays the media gets better ratings talking about some celebrity doing something stupid than over the US bombing villages and killing civilian men, women and children. The govt follows corporate interests and gets into oil wars.


i like to think that if hundreds of thousands showed up in DC then they would overwhelm the containment ofthe police. I also think that if protests like the vietnam era protests were to start and persist, then the politicians would have to start trying to re-shape their message in order to get re-elected. But I temper that knowing that the authorities would counter with hi-tech weapons. But who knows, maybe that would trigger more outrage and the movement would snowball.

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard


Both sides of World War 2 was financed by the same global banksters. After the war, the European Union was constructed. The official story was that it was done so that countries could trade and not fight. But in reality it is a massive control structure. There is not much insight of what is going on there, and individual countries have to follow what the EU puts into law. Its a european government, basically.

Of course that was the goal all along, even before the war. To put that in place in Europe. We see that now. But nobody saw it while it was happening. The people who do this... who construct events in the world with a certain goal, they know exactly where they want society to go. And this is happening while we work, take care of the kids and watch TV. We are kept very busy, and if they can make us feel stupid and afraid as well, its even better.

Democracy never has worked. And it never will. That's why the founders chose a Republic as our form of self governance.

But as Ben Franklin, and others so wisely noted. We the people, had to hang onto it. Which we have failed to do. Our ancestors were not duly diligent, and over time, the wolves usurped our republic, and colluded to destroy the law of the land, and the resolve of the people.

They have succeeded. I would like to be positive. But I am an older man who has seen and experienced much in life I've never even shared on ATS. What I see ahead for the people of this country, and indeed, the people of this world, is not pretty.

reply to post by PrimitiveWorld


Interesting perspective but not sure I would go with it. The US stayed out of the war for a long time. America was still remembering WWI. There are conspiracy theories saying Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen. Not sure how true that is but if so it's just another example of how deeply and for how long the corruption has infected our system of govt. Helps solidify my belief that we are screwed.

Now I remember what it was that motivated us to enter WWII. It was Pearl Harbor. 911 was what got the public (in lesser numbers) to go along with the Iraq/Afganistan invasions. Still you didnt see the people get behind it or even really pay attention to it. People are just too distracted, living in a dream.

Lets understand first what is a Democracy

Definition of Democracy

de·moc·ra·cy   /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled[dih-mok-ruh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural de·moc·ra·cies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

dictionary.reference.com...

America was not founded on Democracy it was founded as a Constitutional Republic

www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com...

Democracy was sold to the people in order for those in government business to get unlimited powers over the people While taking the power of the individual Republics of the States.

What US is now is a Corporate dictatorship

Corporate Dictatorship
The Evil Behind the Collapse
of the World's Economy

www.atlasbooks.com...

Our politicians and government works under a corporate dictatorship that portrait themselves as Hollywood celebrities with all the fanfare and corruption that runs within their powers

Then you wonder why democracy is failing America, well is because we were not a democracy to Begin with.

Originally posted by Klassified
Democracy never has worked. And it never will. That's why the founders chose a Republic as our form of self governance.

But as Ben Franklin, and others so wisely noted. We the people, had to hang onto it. Which we have failed to do. Our ancestors were not duly diligent, and over time, the wolves usurped our republic, and colluded to destroy the law of the land, and the resolve of the people.

They have succeeded. I would like to be positive. But I am an older man who has seen and experienced much in life I've never even shared on ATS. What I see ahead for the people of this country, and indeed, the people of this world, is not pretty.

edit on 9/1/2012 by Klassified because: redaction

I said talk me down. You and I share a common vision. I'm accused of being pessimistic but feel like I'm just being realistic...

Originally posted by marg6043
Lets understand first what is a Democracy

Definition of Democracy

de·moc·ra·cy   /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled[dih-mok-ruh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural de·moc·ra·cies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

dictionary.reference.com...

America was not founded on Democracy it was founded as a Constitutional Republic

www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com...

Democracy was sold to the people in order for those in government business to get unlimited powers over the people While taking the power of the individual Republics of the States.

What US is now is a Corporate dictatorship

Corporate Dictatorship
The Evil Behind the Collapse
of the World's Economy

www.atlasbooks.com...

Our politicians and government works under a corporate dictatorship that portrait themselves as Hollywood celebrities with all the fanfare and corruption that runs within their powers

Then you wonder why democracy is failing America, well is because we were not a democracy to Begin with.

Thanks for the correction. Still it does not resolve for me whether my outlook is grounded or not. Maybe I'm the one living in a dream and paying too much attention to the information in the media and on the internet. Maybe there really is a movement afoot to fix it all that I just ont know about. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle or maybe I'm spot on...

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

I said talk me down. You and I share a common vision. I'm accused of being pessimistic but feel like I'm just being realistic...

Just don't do anything crazy, and you'll be alright. You are being realistic as a whole. Keep digging, and keep learning. Keep trying to get people to think for themselves. This is what the war between us and the behemoth propaganda machine is all about...

We want people to think for themselves. To use their critical faculties. To question EVERYTHING.
The machine wants to do peoples thinking for them, and lead them by the nose to utter destruction.

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard


Before the power of the centralized government grew, people had more rights and freedom of speech, the laws that now trample over civil rights were not there, the corporate power was not that strong.

Now people has been acclimatized to believe that a centralized government is better than individual state rights and has been bought over with federal loans and briberies that most Americans now depend on the centralized government hand outs that they do not dare to question the purpose of the take over.

Most states in the US has given the rights of the citizens in the Republic in order to get also hand outs and briberies in the name of Federal help, most states are in debt with the centralized government that they will never get away from their power.

This may sound complicated but history tells how this power shift has eroded Americas Republic.

I agree that all this started during the 1970s, that is when the last of The America fight against government took place to take away a president.

This site has a compressive approach of how America power shifted from the people to a shadow government.

www.drgeorgepc.com...

Dude, it has nothing to do with democracy. The USA is a republic not a democracy and the republic model does work.

The reason why its not working now is because you no longer have a republic, you have a corporate dictatorship. And the merger of corporations and the state is known as Fascism.

So the USA is now a fascist state and thats why things are not working.

reply to post by Klassified


Ya, like bhuddism. Let them persist in their folly. If people let their govt continue on the path its on, then we go right off the cliff. Problem is, for many the realization that the whole thing was an illusion will come too late.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
Dude, it has nothing to do with democracy. The USA is a republic not a democracy and the republic model does work.

The reason why its not working now is because you no longer have a republic, you have a corporate dictatorship. And the merger of corporations and the state is known as Fascism.

So the USA is now a fascist state and thats why things are not working.

edit on 1-9-2012 by TheMindWar because: Added info

Constitutional Republic? Where has that succeeded. My point like I said in the OP was not to say one form of govt or the other is better. "Republic", "Democracy", Those are just words to describe ideas about how to organize. Problem is neither isa good example of something thats immune to the virus thats infected US. The same question begs an answer: Is it too late to fix it?

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard


Centralized government means that Central This ideology is working for the elite few in the worlds government or the so call NWO that is not that new is always been the money behind power.

But we most understand that we are no isolated on this ideology, is been spread globally.

But this power has an ugly side, this power of centralization globally is killing nations.

You don't have to look far away to see what is happenubf with the centralization of the so call European Union.

America democracy is not working just like centralized open powers if the EU is not we are all link in this mess.

reply to post by marg6043


Thats not talking me down. Feel like I've got my feet in concrete and am teetering on the edge of the bridge...

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard


Well remember that we can not forget our constitution, still the only way to fix this mess is if the government collapses due to by peoples means or the governments powers own greed, we already seen some of that when the economy collapse in 2008, what the elite did? they robed the people to protect their powers.

What we did? beside protest, no a darn thing, we accomplish nothing and the stealing and corruption is still rampant and growing, until the next collapse.

reply to post by Klassified


The craziest thing I've considered is voting for who will let it happen quicker in an attempt to speed up the process. I'm non-violent, dont worry. I'd rather use the system against itself. Problem is that govt is sealing up the freedoms that allow me to do that. Cant organize easily, protest is contained and not effective like it used to be. Also, people just dont seem to care as much anymore.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

 

Well remember that we can not forget our constitution, still the only way to fix this mess is if the government collapses due to by peoples means or the governments powers own greed, we already seen some of that when the economy collapse in 2008, what the elite did? they robed the people to protect their powers.

What we did? beside protest, no a darn thing, we accomplish nothing and the stealing and corruption is still rampant and growing, until the next collapse.

Yup. Wouldnt be great to get the majority on board to boycott something, anything. Even the "Dont buy gas on Moonday" type of boycott. Except do it with multiple products on different days. That would get their attention at least. Or vote out any incumbent. That would be cool except it would bring in extremists and we would still be locked in this self defeating fight against one another for some time until its worked out. Still, heading down the turmoil of the birth canal towards awakening is better than staying in the womb forever. Somethings gotta give...

Originally posted by Klassified
Democracy never has worked. And it never will. That's why the founders chose a Republic as our form of self governance.

Democracy is the very engine that let's us have input into the
Republic. Iraq was once a Republic lacking the democratic component