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Maddie 'is with German family'

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posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by Amadeo
 


yeah their lobby is fierce to shut down, discredit or even ruin anyone who does not sing the same tune.

the best example is this man, one of the original inspectors working the case, who not only seen his career destroyed but is personally being taken to court by the mccann's
he was mentioned in the thread earlier, Gonçalo Amaral.

i will share his blog, where the book the mccann's dont want people reading is fully transcribed and translated to english for anyone who wants to read
goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.pt...

the foreword

Certainly, this book responds to the need I felt to defend myself, having been discredited by the institution for which I worked for more than twenty-six years, without being given any chance to explain myself, publicly or within the institution itself. I made the request several times, but it was never heard. I, therefore, scrupulously respected the rules of the police judiciaire and I refrained from making any comment. But this goes without saying: I experienced that silence to which I was constrained as an attack on my dignity. Later, I was removed from the investigation. It was then that I understood that it was time to speak. To do that, I requested early retirement in order to be able to express myself freely. However, the purpose of this work is more important: to contribute to finding the truth so that justice can finally be done in the investigation known as the "Maddie case." Truth and justice are two values strongly anchored within me, which reflect my profound beliefs: they always guided the work I did for the institution to which I am proud to have belonged. Even in retirement, they continue to inspire me and to be present in my life. In no way does this text seek to challenge the work of my colleagues in the police judiciaire or to compromise the ongoing investigation. I am convinced that the disclosure of all the facts may, in the present case, result in harming the investigation. However, the reader will have access to unpublished information, to new interpretations of events - always with respect for the law - and, of course, to relevant enquiries. The only objective of a criminal investigation is the search for truth. There is no place for the "politically correct."




posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 06:03 AM
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personally, I don't think they look alike, I think the girl is younger than maddie, she looks about seven. I don't think whoever abducted her would risk taking her on a plane for someone to recognise .her. hope you're safe and well Maddie, where ever you are.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by UziLiberman
 


Yes, the way Senhor Amaral has been treated is nothing short of despicable. The McCanns are out to ruin the man financially, while they are still accepting donations to their limited company (not charity) under the pretence of looking for Madeleine which they have never actually done. I can tell they're terrified of him and rightly so. I wish him all the success in the world for his upcoming court case against them.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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The printing firm sales boss took his snap on a transit bus taking passengers to the plane.

And while on the two-hour Lufthansa flight to Munich he sat close to the family and kept an eye on the girl.

So, he had two hours to get a better photo, obviously, he's full of BS, I'm not having he couldn't manage to get another shot, he had plenty of time, 2 hours and then getting off the plane, through customs. just wait to see what the passanger list comes up with and the cctv, they shhould be able to identify suspects from that surley.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by UziLiberman
 


Can you explain why the McCanns had an audience with Pope Benedict shortly after the disapearance of their child



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by UziLiberman
 


Thankyou for posting that link - I have been wanting to read that book



I wish all the best to Sr Amaral in his fight to defend himself against the McCanns

peace
J



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 


no i believe your absolutely right. here in the states specifically in Texas, Austin and San Antonio Areas their already rolling out RFID chipped student IDs to track and surveil students - just this past week there were protests from both Parents and Students who REFUSE to carry the IDs. everyone knows the capabilities of these chips, we know that they can be used to surveil people in their private homes and identities can be STOLEN EASIER when i comes to credit card use, they are just trying to use Maddie as justification for their use! on another note i have a rather unique gift in looking at a photograph of a person and knowing if they are alive or dead and sometimes even their location - case in point, when Amber Dubious disapeared in 2009, her father came into my place of bussiness and asked to post a flyer with her pic in the window, of course i said yes and placed the flyer promptly and prominently in the window. weeks went by of looking at this photograph day after day and i suddenly knew that she was no longer alive and i kept getting the number 395. didnt know what it was house number, road, locker combination simply didnt know until i was driving out by Fallbrook and it hit me again, old highway 395 runs out by the indian reservation! after that all i could think about was a white or silver vehicle. so i contacted the tip line. they didnt believe me. but it was later found that her remains were recovered where old highway 395 meets the indian reservation road at a private residence with a silver pick up parked out front.. same thing with Natalie Holloway. i looked at her pic splashed all over the news after she disapeared and thought to myself that she was spirited away alive becuase it definitely felt like money changed hands for her, i believe that she ended up in an aisan country probably thailand working in the sex industry where she met her end... but this is unproven as of yet, but i feel correct in my bones!



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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I've never been sure which side of the fence to fall on with the "maddie" case.
That's unusual for me! I'm usually quite decisive and instinctive, but neither side of the story seems to add up to me. There's obviously much more to this case than has ever been revealed to the public.

I think it's important to note that some important points have been missed / misrepresented in this thread so far.

Can I first just clarify that it is NOT common practise in the UK to give children "sleeping tablets" so the adults can go out! That is just nonsense and I can honestly say that I've NEVER ever heard of that ever happening.
If there was any suspicion of that happening in this case, then why were the other children not drug tested? (Or were they?)

The McCanns left their children unattended on the evening in question - yes!
But they left them AFTER the children were in bed asleep, so the children would NOT necessarily have woken up or been upset in any way as hinted at earlier in the thread. They COULD have woken up, but we don't know that.

To the people saying that they KNOW what happened as FACT. Could you please present all the evidence that you are holding to the appropriate authorities? Thanks.

Babysitting / monitoring services were available in the hotel complex where they were staying, but the McCanns didn't feel the need to use this service.
Why? Because their apartment was visible from the restaurant/bar where they were dining, and (according to them AND other diners) they checked on their kids every 20 minutes or so.
A VERY bad decision on their part, and the main thing that has turned people against them (in my opinion). "How could anyone leave their kids unattended??"

Most right-minded people would never leave their kids unattended like that, but I have had personal experience of EXACTLY the same thing happening.
On a small tourist-friendly island in Scotland, my wife and I found a small boy (about 6 years old) wandering down the street dressed in nothing but his underpants and vest!
He was crying his eyes out, obviously VERY distressed, and we stopped to speak to him, thinking that something dreadful must have happened.
It turned out that his Dad had brought him over to the island at the start of their holiday, and that his mum was to join them the next day.
The dad had put the boy to bed, and GONE OUT TO THE PUB for a drink.
The boy woke up (in the strange bed/bedroom of the holiday house) and had panicked when he couldn't find his dad.
He went outside to see if he could find him, and the door had shut and latched behind him, locking him out.
As it turns out, they had been to the island several times before, and the boy knew which pub his dad usually went to.
So, I left my wife to look after the boy, and I personally went to the pub and had to drag this miserable excuse for a father out of there.
I explained the seriousness of the situation to him, and drove him back to their holiday house, but to my astonishment - his attitude was "what's the problem?"
I have NEVER came closer to physically assaulting another human being, but I felt that the boy had been through enough already, so I simply got right in the guys face and made it perfectly clear that he was to go inside immediately and LOOK AFTER his son, and if I ever found out that there was a repeat occurrence, that the police would be the last of his worries.

Anyway, apologies for the asides, it was merely to illustrate that people DO make bad choices regarding their childs safety when they have the opportunity to "enjoy" themselves on holiday instead.

With regards to the cadaver/blood dogs, my understanding was that they indicated for blood in several places within the apartment?
and that they only indicated for a cadaver in the hire car, which the McCanns had hired 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance?

Questions: How would Maddies blood get all over the apartment? How could they clean it up effectively? How did the scent of her body get into the hire car at least 3 weeks later (when the media circus was in full swing)?
None of that ties with the "accident" or "fell behind the couch" or "was drugged/overdosed to get her to sleep" theories being posited here.

SOMEONES blood was scented by the dogs in several places in the apartment, but it could have been anyones blood, left there by any previous occupant.
Someones body was scented in the boot of the hire car, but not to put too fine a point on it... It could have been ANY body, at any time previously.
Is it likely, or even possible, that the McCanns could have transported a body in the boot of their hire car, at least 3 weeks after the story broke, with the huge media spotlight fixed firmly on them?
b.t.w - They may have been "airing" the car because of a strange smell, from a previous hirers misuse of the vehicle? (rotting meat was mentioned?)
(continued in next post)



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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There is loads of circumstantial evidence on BOTH sides of the case. The stranger who was seen hanging around outside their apartment, and by the pool the day before.
The man seen carrying a child in pyjamas on the night of the disappearance. The blood/cadaver indications. The poor decision making and lack of emotion afterwards.
but none of it adds up to a solid case either way. Only when Maddie is found (dead or alive) will this be solved, and even then it might not be clear what happened.

I just wish that more people would reserve final judgement, until that day.
Because as far as I'm concerned, NO ONE knows what happened, except those responsible for her disappearance.
I hope that she's safe and well, kidnapped for adoption only.
But, like 99% of people, I highly doubt it.

GTD



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Gordi The Drummer
 


Just a few things I wanted to point out.

The McCanns' apartment wasn't quite as visible from the tapas bar as they'd have you believe. There are illustrations online showing the distance and angles etc. The photo below is the actual view from apartment 5A:



The McCanns say it was akin to dining in your garden but in reality, they were quite a bit further away than that. The front door of the apartment (which is what they claimed to have used every time they checked, and was actually a much longer route than was necessary) is on the opposite side of the building from the balcony. When their initial claim of the shutters being damaged was proven false, they started to say the front door must have been used. They couldn't see the front door from their vantage point, much less the actual balcony so to me, their claim that it was no different to dining in your garden doesn't really stand up.

The reason they gave for not using the child-minding service was that they didn't want to leave the kids with strangers, but these would have been the same strangers they felt it ok to leave the kids with during the day, every day. That just doesn't make any sense to me. And leaving the kids on their own after they were sleep on the night Madeleine disappeared wasn't a one-off. They'd been doing it every single night. Surely, if they were going to leave the kids to go out at night, it would have been better for the kids (if they woke up) to have someone there that they were familiar with instead of waking up to a darkened and otherwise empty apartment? It's been suggested that Madeleine woke up and wandered out the front door which is entirely possible but I'm not convinced of that for the simple reason that, when she was allegedly discovered missing, every available person was out searching for her. I would expect a child of that age to become distressed, much like the boy you came across in your experience. With all those people looking for a kid who would likely be crying and maybe quite loudly (Madeleine was described as a screamer), I think she would have been found quite quickly.

Regarding her blood in the apartment, I think it ties in perfectly well with the theory she'd been drugged and injured herself. She'd most definitely be woozy and disorientated if she'd been sedated; a cut or number of cuts could have been sustained in the proposed fall that led to her death. If there was blood that needed to be cleaned then no, Kate & Gerry didn't do a good job of cleaning it because one of the dogs alerted to blood in the apartment. If Madeleine died as a result of her injuries, that would explain the presence of both blood and cadaverine. There's also the matter of a blue sports bag that the McCanns claimed not to own but which was mentioned by their friends during questioning and was also photographed on a shelf in a cupboard in one of the bedrooms. One of the dogs alerted to cadaverine in that cupboard but the McCanns deny all knowledge of the bag.

You mentioned the possibility of rotting meat in the boot of their hire car. The McCanns did use this as an explanation for the dogs alerting to their car, and they also suggested dirty nappies being the cause of the smell. The cadaver dog doesn't alert to rotting animal meat or dirty nappies, just human cadaverine.

I meant to mention earlier; the McCanns also took some time to finally decide on how often they checked on the kids. They seemed to have difficulty deciding whether it was hourly, half hourly or quarter hourly. It's little things like this, the fact that they never physically searched themselves (they used the time to come up with a timeline for the police while holidaymakers and locals were out searching for Madeleine), the way they keep changing their story (to this day), their generally strange behaviour and straight up lies that make it extremely difficult for me to believe them.

I have to admit, this case has fascinated me the way 9/11 and the JFK assassination fascinates others. You're right when you say there's a lot that we don't know but even at that, what we DO know adds up to a highly strange tale, whatever actually happened. I think all the available evidence points to an accidental death then a massive cover-up that's still going on now. If you haven't read the police files, they're definitely worth a look. It can be hard going but it's a real eye-opener -- the files, statements etc can all be read here.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Alive or dead is a tough decision.

Would you rather:
A) Be accidentally poisoned by your parents and die in your sleep while they have a night out.
B) Be left in your room asleep and kidnapped by sexual predators for years of abuse with a high chance of being killed anyway while your parents have a night out.

Now which group of people would you be able to forgive if you were the 9 year old?



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by

It's all a game the McCanns are playing out in the media and they are reliant on the average UK citizen to take them at their word which is something fewer and fewer people are doing. The support for them in the UK is at an all-time low, despite their attempts to paint those who don't believe them as a sick and twisted minority.


Very good points, I think the fact that the Mccanns never physically searched for their girl fits in here with what you've said. They organised a big campaign using the phrase 'no stone unturned' but never actually went out and searched themselves. Running and sitting on the beach was what they did.

It's sad that the Mccanns relie on the emotive response of good natured people who wish this child to be found unharmed. In reality it's much more likely she was killed. This is supported by evidence, not the hope and desire for a miraculous happy ending.

The McCanns are at best guilty of an accidental death and cover-up in my opinion. I believe they wanted desperately to keep their lifestyle, reputation and two other children enough to carry out a clever campaign of disinformation. This consultant cardiologist and doctor have the necessary intelligence and connections to keep this circus going longer than the less clever plotters such as Karen Matthews or Stuart Hazell, who killed his step-grandaughter recently.

The worst case scenario in the Mccann case could be much more disturbing but we are unlikely to ever find out taking into consideration the time that has elapsed to find the body.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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She looks a little too young imo. Also, I'm not entirely convinced of the parents innocence.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Gordi

"The McCanns left their children unattended on the evening in question - yes!
But they left them AFTER the children were in bed asleep, so the children would NOT necessarily have woken up or been upset in any way as hinted at earlier in the thread. They COULD have woken up, but we don't know that.... Because their apartment was visible from the restaurant/bar where they were dining, and (according to them AND other diners) they checked on their kids every 20 minutes or so. "

- There is recorded evidence that children in the Mccann's appartment woke up and cried on various nights before she was reported missing. See the Mccann's own statements abot crying and the neighbour "mrs Fenn". there were hardf floors in the apartment, it would only take one time for a child to wake up and slip, a matter of seconds.



Originally posted by Gordi - "With regards to the cadaver/blood dogs, my understanding was that they indicated for blood in several places within the apartment?
and that they only indicated for a cadaver in the hire car, which the McCanns had hired 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance?
Questions: How would Maddies blood get all over the apartment? How could they clean it up effectively? How did the scent of her body get into the hire car at least 3 weeks later (when the media circus was in full swing)?
None of that ties with the "accident" or "fell behind the couch" or "was drugged/overdosed to get her to sleep" theories being posited here."

- They obviously didn't clean up 100 per cent. it ties in with the accident theory if you consider the fridge that Gerry threw away and the church they had a private key to. The police officer investigating the disapearence was of the opinion they stored the body, possibly in that fridge and transported it in the hire car. There were days were the McCanns drove to remote areas, which was supported by phone records.

Originally posted by Gordi - "SOMEONES blood was scented by the dogs in several places in the apartment, but it could have been anyones blood, left there by any previous occupant.
Someones body was scented in the boot of the hire car, but not to put too fine a point on it... It could have been ANY body, at any time previously.
Is it likely, or even possible, that the McCanns could have transported a body in the boot of their hire car, at least 3 weeks after the story broke, with the huge media spotlight fixed firmly on them?
b.t.w - They may have been "airing" the car because of a strange smell, from a previous hirers misuse of the vehicle? (rotting meat was mentioned?)
(continued in next post)"

- The apartment was relatively new and there is no record of anyone dying there. That is something the rental company would have recorded.

The McCanns said they aired the car due to rotting meat and diaper smells. The cadaver dog alerted to HUMAN Cadaver smells in the car, it would not have picked up on random rotting meat smells.

I site all this from memory but it is all available as the public case files on many websites. If you read them all and don't rely on the media for your information, I'm pretty sure you will have a different view of Kate and Gerry McCann.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Amadeo
 


Yeah, it is a strange and complicated case - Thanks for the link you posted, it is very informative, with loads of relevant info on there!

(One small thing I noticed, regarding the blood in the apartment...
From the front page of the website that you linked to:


Wednesday August 15 • Blood traces found in the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping the night the was snatched were not hers, The Times reports. Forensic results show the blood came from a man, it adds.


I'm not sure how accurate that report was, but I don't remember any of the tests proving that it was actually Maddies blood that was found?)

It's certainly at least, a very unlikely series of co-incidences, that there were any blood stains / cadaver indications at all, in the McCanns apartment, and later in the hire car. Very strange.
Thanks again,
GTD



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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If the parents went thr0ugh all the tr0uble t0 bury the kid and c*lean everything and *leave n0 traces
they w0u*ld be smart en0ugh t0 thr0ugh a r0ck thr0ugh the wind0w 0r damage the d00r a bit
t0 make it *l00k *like a f0rce entry. Pr0 kidnappers w0uld have a pickl0ck expert t0 pick the*l0ck and *leave n0 traces, which makes me **lean t0wards this was pr0 kidnapping ring



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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I meant to mention earlier; the McCanns also took some time to finally decide on how often they checked on the kids. They seemed to have difficulty deciding whether it was hourly, half hourly or quarter hourly. It's little things like this, the fact

They got their story straight (with fellow diners and doctors) by writing a schedule of the checks on one of Madeline's colouring books. Why would they need to write this down if it was what had truly happened? And on your missing daughters books of all things


Also the sightings of people by the apartment have been mentioned, what about the Smith family sighting of a man carrying a child that looked to them like Gerry McCann. That one doesn't get mentioned in the papers much. The statement of the Gaspar Family regarding Gerry Mccann and David Payne's behaviour towards Madeline doesn't either!
edit on 1-9-2012 by DrHammondStoat because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by sirnukeem
If the parents went thr0ugh all the tr0uble t0 bury the kid and c*lean everything and *leave n0 traces
they w0u*ld be smart en0ugh t0 thr0ugh a r0ck thr0ugh the wind0w 0r damage the d00r a bit
t0 make it *l00k *like a f0rce entry. Pr0 kidnappers w0uld have a pickl0ck expert t0 pick the*l0ck and *leave n0 traces, which makes me **lean t0wards this was pr0 kidnapping ring


They were smart enough to possibly dispose of a body days before they raised the alarm, feed a story about kidnappers to the British press (who acted completely biased and xenopobic) and tell the police that they left apartment doors OPEN to make checking on their child easier and at the same time easier for an abductor to get in, ie. setting the scene for their version of events.

Police and other investigators have been to the apartment and looked at the space and shutters. They found Zero evidence of any kind of break in. It would be extremely difficult to pull up the shutters, climb in, drug the children, take the eldest, climb out of the window with the child. All whilst the front door was open (responsible parenting!) offering a much more sensible escape.

The abductor would have had a few minutes to do this if we are to believe the McCanns story where Gerry opened the door of the tiny bedroom and did not see the abductor hiding in there. in a few minutes, his daughter was gone, according to him.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Thanks Dr!
If I can just clarify a few things:


Originally posted by DrHammondStoat

- There is recorded evidence that children in the Mccann's appartment woke up and cried on various nights before she was reported missing. See the Mccann's own statements abot crying and the neighbour "mrs Fenn". there were hardf floors in the apartment, it would only take one time for a child to wake up and slip, a matter of seconds.


Yes there is. But not on the night in question, which is why I said we "don't know" with regards to that night.




- They obviously didn't clean up 100 per cent. it ties in with the accident theory if you consider the fridge that Gerry threw away and the church they had a private key to. The police officer investigating the disapearence was of the opinion they stored the body, possibly in that fridge and transported it in the hire car. There were days were the McCanns drove to remote areas, which was supported by phone records.


As I mentioned in my last post - the blood was never identified as being Maddies.
So, there is perhaps a slight presumption that "They (the McCanns) obviously didn't clean up 100 per cent" as there is no clear evidence that they had to clean up anything.

The fridge IS a very strange piece of information. I haven't yet read the original statements on that one, but definitely does look very suspect! (as does the driving to remote areas if the dates tie in.)



- The apartment was relatively new and there is no record of anyone dying there. That is something the rental company would have recorded.


I agree, but then - I never indicated that I thought anyone had died there - just that SOMEONES bloodstains had been found there, and that these (as far as I know) haven't been identified as being Maddies.



The McCanns said they aired the car due to rotting meat and diaper smells. The cadaver dog alerted to HUMAN Cadaver smells in the car, it would not have picked up on random rotting meat smells.


I was actually replying to an earlier quote that mentioned rotting meat.
AND I did point out that the cadaver indication could have been in relation to previous misuse of that vehicle (e.g. transporting a corpse) by any previous hirer/driver of the car. Again circumstantial and not able to be linked DIRECTLY to Maddie.



I site all this from memory but it is all available as the public case files on many websites. If you read them all and don't rely on the media for your information, I'm pretty sure you will have a different view of Kate and Gerry McCann.


Thanks, but I have read MANY of the initial reports and case files. I do not rely on "media" sources for my information, and as stated - I don't know which side of the fence to fall on in this case. I most certainly am NOT in the "McCanns are innocent" camp, if that's what you're implying?
regards
GTD



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Hello again Dr!
Just a small point from your last post...




They were smart enough to possibly dispose of a body days before they raised the alarm, feed a story about kidnappers to the British press (who acted completely biased and xenopobic) and tell the police that they left apartment doors OPEN to make checking on their child easier and at the same time easier for an abductor to get in, ie. setting the scene for their version of events.


The last known photo of Maddie, which was later used as one of the press-release photos to publicise her disappearance, was quoted as being taken by the poolside, just 7 hours before her disappearance.
also, other holidaymakers are quoted as having seen Maddie alive and well, on the day of her disappearance, so I'm not sure where the "days before" they raised the alarm point comes in?

cheers
GTD



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