Vote ? Really ? Are you sick in your mind ?

i must confess that this year my worst fears were confirmed. the ron paul situation showed me that voting really doesn't matter. democracy is dead in this country.

reply to post by randyvs


Im DONE VOTING. I say no more voting, theres only one who makes up the laws as we continue living, & that is YOU YOURSELF!

Agreed voting is a sham especially when the vote cannot even be verified by some simple changes. It is a form of brain washing people vote therefore they think they must accept what ever these lying scum do because they voted in phony elections. You have got to hand it to these crooks they have the vast majority of people by the short hairs and the rest of us suffer for their stupidity...

Edit to add: here is a similar thread I started this week also on this topic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by randyvs

Hi randy, I've been thinking the same thing...almost started a thread yesterday regarding WHY DO WE VOTE?

We KNOW it's rigged...is it just to make us feel like we have some say-so? We know we don't. We also know that the candidates LIE...they say whatever they have to to get votes, then do whatever the hell they (or their handlers) already decided to do. They really don't give a rats ass what "We the People" want, and it seems that lying comes as easily to them as breathing.

So....why do we believe, election after election...that they actually MEAN what they say? Or that congress would SUPPORT what they want to do? We've learned since 2008 that a pissed-off Republican faction will thwart any changes Obama or the Dems try to push through, like a bunch of monkeys throwing poo. It's absolutely ridiculous, juvenile, and asinine. WHY do we still believe them??

It's like a battered spouse believing their abuser will change, wants to change, really is sorry....so they stay. And then it happens again.
The problem with not voting at all, I've discovered, since that was the idea I was pimping .... either no one votes, OR everyone votes for "None of the Above".....

OR we vote write-ins or 3rd parties or whatever just as a gesture (about as effective as filling out a stupid pop-up "how'd we do" survey rather than going face to face to the manager and demanding fair treatment or refusing to pay for shoddy workmanship)...

is that They Don't Care if we vote or not,and probably hope we WON'T, so that then CONGRESS gets to choose, regardless of what we want. I believe the one house picks the pres, the other picks the vice pres. So that strategy won't work.

It seems to me that the only thing we can do is STOP PLAYING altogether. Don't vote, don't pay off debt to banks, don't leave your home when the sheriff comes to evict you (or if you're the sheriff, refuse to evict the tenants, and if already a vacant building, install some homeless people) don't pay TAXES, stop using corporations and do business with your neighbors.

I would be willing to bet that in any middle class/working class neighborhood, there are people like those who live in my neighborhood....who have a variety of required skills to get by without exchanging money at all -- nurse, carpenter, plumber, electrician, former LEO, seamstress, mechanic, painter, teacher, tree-trimmer, vet, counselor, heavy equipment operator, cook, gardener, IT expert, firefighter, chicken-keeper -- all within a couple blocks of one another...and we know one another, and we exchange goods and services and take care of each other. and watch out for each other.... .... we git'r'done... and we're all armed, and we don't need no stinking government telling us what to do. Not even our local government bothers with us as long as the neighbors don't complain. And when the occasional asshole neighbor DOES complain, usually the govt ignores them.

But in the beige yuppie neighborhoods of hastily-slapped-together, identical houses with no trees, two BMWs, and professional landscaping and annual new remodeling and furniture, no one owns a chain saw. No one knows how to change their own oil or lay tile, or put in calking or tuck-point masonry or start a garden. No one would be caught dead with chickens in their yard, or put up solar panels, because their "Homes Association" would frown upon such things.

So, what really is the answer? Yes, I want to have a fire hydrant nearby, electricity, gas, streets, etc. But, could I live without them? I could. My neighbors could, and most of us, it turns out, WANT to do so.

Sigh. In my view, it's the moneyed young corporate drones who support the status-quo, because they've been so stifled and dumbed down that they would be entirely helpless if the SHTF and stocks crashed to oblivion. Or, the now-retired honest, hard-working, frugal entrepreneurs who operated locally and employed dozens, and saved enough for a decent retirement. ....

and I understand that. I also understand the point of some young people who still dream that dream -- I got hate-replied just the other day for my views of "enough is plenty", and the angry member was, as others have done, clearly still laboring under the impression that with hard work he CAN be one of the moneyed elite.

I understand that dream, that hope that "I can do this"...and it breaks my heart to know that it's about as likely as a kid from the ghetto going NBA. They all want to....but very, very few are fortunate enough, and those who actually work their way there are even fewer.

Nepotism is a bad, bad word. Croneyism likewise. Perhaps they should abolish "inheritance", not just "inheritance tax". .... but that's a topic for another thread..

Hmmmmm........*wanders away in thought*

Originally posted by wildtimes

So, what really is the answer? Yes, I want to have a fire hydrant nearby, electricity, gas, streets, etc. But, could I live without them? I could. My neighbors could, and most of us, it turns out, WANT to do so.

So you do or you don’t WANT to have a fire hydrant, etc. nearby???? Not trying to flame you but I disagree that many want to live without, the stats speak for themselves. There are many more people choosing to live in areas with these amenities, than not. And trust me, there are plenty of places without.

reply to post by Gridrebel

Fair question, Gridrebel. I suppose ideally it would be "off the grid, but near services"....

we want to get out of the city, I should have stated. We want to live on an acreage, away from city noise, crime, hectic pace, and just kinda poke along; hunt and fish and garden for food, use available resources and tools we already have or can easily acquire....

I know it's not easy to live like the pioneers and early settlers did, but with skills and tools, it can be done.

Hope that clarifies.

Or you could become MORE involved in politics instead of less. I agree, who made it to the big screen probably sold out. BUT how about you try and support your local politicians, somone you know whom is genuine. If legal means, spending money towards the media, in the internet age will not stop a "champion of the people" and the people with the big purses have to resort to outright voter fraud, thats when you can call them out.

Look at Ron Paul, assuming he wasnt all smoke and mirrors. Who is to say, there cant be more ron pauls, whom adress the voters not through airtime controlled by those who old the purse strings, but through the internet.

reply to post by Cassius666


I hesitate to embrace that idea, Cassius, because every single time I've been in a position to "suggest changes", I discovered just how dug-in the establishment is. There are so many politcians now who realize that being a "freshman" with fresh ideas is either laughed out of the room, or summarily ignored by the "old-timers", no matter what organization it is. And places that say they have an "open door policy" are actually just wanting to invite the new blood (which they claimed they wanted when they hired or elected someone new, from outside the establishment) to feel "comfortable" suggesting their "treason" openly, so they can document the person's non-conformity and then go to HR, or the old-timers in charge, and systematically get rid of them.

It's all a sham. That's the problem. Once you're on the inside, you learn the dirty secrets.

Originally posted by randyvs

This forum defines voting perfectly. It is madness and totally insane in my opinion to go to the polls. Every stinking politician in D.C. knows what I'm saying is true and they are all a corporate production, who's embodiment has been nurtured to one end only. The demise of our way of life in America.
Do you really believe the corporations aren't doing this ?

After all the years they fought our installment of unions and forcing them to compensate the American people properly ? So we could have a piece of the American pie ? Do you think any of them were glad to see Americans prospering at their expense. I can't tell anyone what to do. But you yes you, must know in your hearts what the hell you are voting for in reality.

And that is at the very least, first and foremost, the demise of our country thru these bought off and sold out creeps we call leaders. When they actually are only rulers. We are looking at one very simple act of revenge as you look on and pretend the next piece of crap will do better. But go ahead and vote, mindlessly ignoring what it is that is happening. They aren't serving pie anymore.

True enough...it IS madness.

However...its STILL downright DANGEROUS not to vote. The ONLY reason the government is as obscenely corrupt as it is today is because the American voter was largely apathetic for the last 40 or so years. Low voter turnouts. Voters who blindly accept the idiotic "arguments" which we are spoon fed.

Don't get me wrong. The government HAS ALWAYS been corrupt....but what I wouldn't give to return to a state of manageable corruption like we had in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, and arguably the 80's.

If we all stop voting then they don't even have to bother going through the sham of PRETENDING that we have "elections" anymore. To me...that's about the only thing scarier than what we have right now.


Go vote...just don't ever, ever, EVER, vote for a republican or a democrat again. Although nobody truly knows what the future will hold...I can say that right now I will be voting for the libertarian, constitutionalist, federalist, whig, socialist, and communist parties before I EVER vote for another democrat or republican.

And yes...I know that the Communist Party and the Libertarian Party are polar opposites of the political spectrum. I hope that illustrates how I truly feel about republicans and democrats.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by randyvs

 

You know what? If you don't want to vote, then don't complain when the government does something you don't like cause you had a chance to participate in the process and maybe write in a person you think would make a better person.

Don't try and discourage others from voting because you are to apathetic to try and fix the mess we are all in.

What does apathy have to do with seeing the truth as it is, and, responding to it with the respect it deserves.
Nothing, obviously.

What "does" idiocy?, people doing the same dumb things over and over again.
What's Dumb?, believing for even one second that you can make any difference whatsoever by voting.

Originally posted by Cassius666
Or you could become MORE involved in politics instead of less. I agree, who made it to the big screen probably sold out. BUT how about you try and support your local politicians, somone you know whom is genuine. If legal means, spending money towards the media, in the internet age will not stop a "champion of the people" and the people with the big purses have to resort to outright voter fraud, thats when you can call them out.

Look at Ron Paul, assuming he wasnt all smoke and mirrors. Who is to say, there cant be more ron pauls, whom adress the voters not through airtime controlled by those who old the purse strings, but through the internet.

Correct. It's gotta happen from "the ground up" instead of from the "top down".

You know what the single most important political office in this country is for libertarians to get their hands on? COUNTY SHERIFF. Let's face it...when push comes to shove...unpopular legislation is implemented at gun point, or by taser and pepper spray...right? Similarly, we can have our second amendment rights all we want...the fact of the matter is that if you refuse to obey and even THINK about EVEN SUGGESTING that your firearm is a deterrent to forced compliance...YOU WILL BE GOING TO PRISON FOR THE REST OF YOUR USEFUL LIFESPAN. Period. It's not "right"...but it is accurate.

Therefore...if the people have the COUNTY SHERIFF's department headed by a staunch Libertarian you can then call the Sheriff on the police department. How's that for turning the tables a little? With a county sheriffs department that stands with the people, you give credibility to resisting what the municipal thugs and Federal Storm Troopers attempt to force you to do. Likewise...in a push-come-to-shove nightmare scenario of having to take up armed resistance in order to avoid being rounded up and sent to a concentration camp for being a Thought Criminal...your Sheriff can deputize you...or every man, woman, and child in the county for that matter.
Now you are a Law Enforcement Officer standing against another "Law" Enforcement Officer...and that is a big, big, difference my friends.

Don't worry about the piddly sh^t city alderman spots. Go for Sheriff and make sure your county has a STAUNCH libertarian streak running through it.

reply to post by milominderbinder

If we all stop voting then they don't even have to bother going through the sham of PRETENDING that we have "elections" anymore. To me...that's about the only thing scarier than what we have right now.

You know what ? You're right. And you're a scary person for thinking things thru this way. What if the only thing holding the hammer up is the fact we play along? What if they were threatened by us waking up to that point. And that would be the signal for them to drop the hammer of martial law and genocide ? But then again I'm not sure I even want to see thee world that's coming anyway.

I would rather die a patriot to my people. I'm sure of it. Great reply !

reply to post by wildtimes

Hmmmmm........*wanders away in thought*

I love ya wild. Great reply.

Originally posted by TheMindWar


You are correct in your observation. Voting for Romney or Obama makes you complicit in war crimes also IMHO. I believe if you vote then you definately have innocent blood on your hands.

"“You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.”
--Mahatma Gandhi"

Sorry... accidental double post.

This seems like a very good point in the thread to say thank you to each and everyone who has had an interest
here in. Everyone of you deserve respect in your opinions and your reply's. And I do thank you ALL, for making this thread so interesting.

apathy has nothing to do with actions. apathy is a state of mnd. you can vote or not with apathy towards the people. you can also vote or not with compassion towards the people.

it depends on one's perspective. mine is it's idiotic to think an entirely corrupted system can be changed within, or that dictators will leave without being forced to.

"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying civilization." - Aristotle

so be it

Here is the typical voter cycle:

1.Vote for favorite candidate.
2.Experience jubilation if/when candidate wins.
3.Get ticked when candidate turns out to be like every other politician. Vows to vote for someone else.
4.Repeat all steps every four years.

This is insane indeed..

Originally posted by benrl

I agree, going and doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results does indicate insanity, so do something different.

Lets all pledge to vote third party.

Not voting is a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water don't you think?


So vote third party, problem solved.

Star for You!!



Quit playing the game, people. You lose every time.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by benrl

I agree, going and doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results does indicate insanity, so do something different.

Lets all pledge to vote third party.

Not voting is a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water don't you think?


So vote third party, problem solved.

Star for You!!

Quit playing the game, people. You lose every time.

One election year