Squatting to become a criminal act. Homeless fears grow. [UK]

reply to post by mr-lizard

A group occupying an abandoned office project, repairing and salvaging items to improve the building, and keeping people safe, dry and fed is a totally different issue. And is the more common form of squatting.

I think the hobo renovation crew is about as common as people that squat in people's houses while they are on vacation.

While I do not see an issue with people squatting in abandoned commercial and industrial properties, I do take issue with people squatting in abandoned houses.
With commercial and industrial properties when someone else buys them the first thing they usually have to do is renovate to suit their company's needs.
When squatters move into an abandoned house it prevents it from being sold and the cost of repair either has to be paid by the landlord or the person buying it which is not fair to anyone.

reply to post by Dnepropetrovsk

I think the hobo renovation crew is about as common as people that squat in people's houses while they are on vacation.

That alone shows your ignorance on the subject.

Unlike you, I know of plenty of squatters in Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool , London and Leeds. Most of these are good people, with jobs (one or two of them work in high class jobs such as law and accountancy), others are care workers or tradesman.

The Bristol squats for instance are regulated and vetted, and only take people into their communities if they can offer something productive. Like someone who can plumb or build or repair or cook or maintain the walls and floors.

The London squats are more for genuinely homeless, vulnerable people and tend to be more often than not, abandoned warehouses and office blocks.

But please, do tell me how these people are real criminals.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Well if you are taking something that is not yours, that is illegal-thus making you a criminal. It is pretty simple really. I don't think the hobo renovation crew is as common as you think.

Originally posted by discolo
Its rubbish that squatters move into other peoples property while they're on Holiday. That is just misinformation put out there.

Err, yes they do.

My father, an engineer by trade, bought a nice home on the east coast of the UK. A cottage, overlooking the sea. Prior to his retirement, he saved every penny he could, and put it aside so that when he retired, he could do 2 things. 1) Pay off his mortgage. 2) Take a 6 month holiday tourins Australia.

He retired, payed off his mortgage. Locked up his house, and went to tour Australia for 6 months.

When he came home, he had a 1 year batlle (well, almost 1 year) to get the squatters out of his home. So don't say they dont occupy peoples homes, because I know for a fact, they do.

This change in law is long overdue.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by dodgygeeza

 

Why, do we have empty properties in this day and age? That's the bigger question.

because people cannot afford the rents so they sit empty....

The vast majority of squatters use abandoned and disused properties.
It is conservatively estimated that there are approximately 650,000 such properties in the UK.

It is a sad reflection of the state of our society that there are so many homeless people who have to seek shelter and accomodation in such places.

And it is an absolute disgrace that those who do will now be breaking the law.

And it is to the eternal shame of both The Labour Party and The Liberal Democrats that they both voted for this legislation.

Maybe if decent affordable housing was encouraged then there wouldn't be such a need for squatting - but of course this would drive down house prices and the profiteering that goes along with it.

This country is moving backwards towards some sort of Dickensian / Victorian society instead of forwards towards a fair and caring society we could and indeed should be.

reply to post by mr-lizard

There has been cases were criminal gangs have been renting peoples houses out when they have been away on holiday , as the law stands now when the right full owners returned home to the locks been changed and somebody else in there house they could not do a thing about it the law was on the side of the people in the house ,, sad but in them cases the house owner and the people who rented the house are the victims ,,The people who rented the house out just disappear..
I remember a place in Wales called the teepee village were homeless people had made teepee's to live in ,,so they was not squatting but still the police and council didn't like it ,,the last time i heard they was trying to close it and make them leave

Originally posted by Dnepropetrovsk
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Well if you are taking something that is not yours, that is illegal-thus making you a criminal. It is pretty simple really. I don't think the hobo renovation crew is as common as you think.

lol so if you throw something away into the rubbish bin
and i trashpick it, you've got grounds to shoot me then?

if you let a house or apt building rot, so you can pay less taxes by claiming a loss, year after year,
whose the crook then?

that said, i certainly dont approve of commandeering peoples homes/lands/property, those folks are scum, and should have their own label and not be lumped together with squatters or perhaps its squatters who require a distinguishing label.

and i know whereof i speak, my great grandfather watched powerless and in horror one election-day morning, in the late 40's PR, as thousands of parasites had invaded and set up shantys overnight on the farmlands that he and the 4 previous generations had worked and saved for.
all these filth received clear title to whatever they staked out from the corrupt scumbag-politicians to whom they sold their votes to, great granpa got pennies on the dollar and that after being called antisocial, an enemy of the people, as well as having his jewish ancestry brought up [roman catholics for the past 4 gens as well].

real estate has always been obtained and held by violence
usually by states
so your justifying/claiming "its the Lawr!" simply makes you look bad.

S&F for the OP

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
It's the people who go on holiday to find that drug addicts and selfish scum bags have moved into their family home who deserve to be kicked out. Those living in abandoned buildings should be allowed to remain as they are looking after the property to a certain extent, especially if the building is going to be left empty for long period of time.

That is what this law is designed to do. There are many examples of people merely going on holiday, or renovating their house to only come back and find that it is full of plebs wrecking the place.

When the Police are called, they can't do anything, which I've always thought odd as surely they forced entry?

Never the less, I'm glad they've finally made it illegal. The rest of us have to pay rent or mortgages and if you cannot afford a roof, one will be provided for you up to £850 a month which, even where I live, is enough to get a 3 Bed semi. People who squat, by and large, are only doing so so they can continue to live a their "freegan" type lifestyles where they don't pay for anything.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in favour of squatters. There are plenty of homes, there isn't a housing crisis in that sense. The "crisis" is people wanting to buy their own homes and not being able to afford the deposit, but people can still rent and there are many properties for rent.

Ironically, it is the parents of the people who now cannot afford to buy who drove up the house prices with their buy to lets or 2nd homes. Nobody ever addresses that though, while bleating that their kid can't afford his first house (My own parents included)

Not only that, but many when they retire cash in on the house value, have a lavish retirement and leave nothing for the kids to enable them to get on the ladder. Again, all the while wandering why their kid can't afford to buy a home as all the houses cost £300K+....

EDIT: To add, I actually have squatted myself before but always felt bad about it. I also have a reprobate sister who is always on the scrounge who did the same, but has since realised the council will give her a nicer house for free without the worry.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
I know of plenty of squatters in Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool , London and Leeds. Most of these are good people, with jobs (one or two of them work in high class jobs such as law and accountancy), others are care workers or tradesman.

in other words, people who could and should own or rent their own properties, People whom I'm quite sure earn a lot more than I do. But who don't want to pay for what they take because they can steal off others.

Takers and Users. Not givers.

I dont understand this concept that police is powerless against these squatters. They are tresspassing. They dont have ownership of the property even if they change locks etc. The owners cant ask the police to remove them / charge them? I'm confuzzled

reply to post by PsykoOps


It was a very weird legal loophole based on an ancient right from centuries ago that was being abused.

It always baffled me why the Police could do nothing for what is simply trespassing. Gladly now, people won't be able to steal other peoples homes.

I think it's fantastic that squatting is now being made a criminal offence. It's about time the government changed the law in regards to this particular issue because for too long now people have hid behind the fact that squatting was more of a civil matter as oppose to criminal. If the squatters need somewhere to stay every local authority in England and Wales will be able to supply emergency accommodation for them. It really bugs me that some squatters are too idiotic to find accommodation in the correct way instead of ruining people's homes and businesses.

For you who are so fast to denounce squatting as theft, are you aware that most owned land (speaking in a very general sense) has its origins in violent appropriations by the states, a process which really has not stopped? what do you think are the implications of that?

I understand that people who spend all their time at work to pay some excessive mortgage or rent are going to feel resentful towards squatting. On the other hand its obscene the amount of homeless people considering the numerous unused houses. But as i see it, these imbalances and tensions originate from capitalism and its concept of property, which rests in violence, and it must overcomed.

Originally posted by benrl
yes thats a perfect solution, give criminal records to people already struggling to make it, make them finding good employment even harder...

Glad to know its not just the US that has its head up its own ass when it comes to ridiculous legislation.

edit on 31-8-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Took the words right out of my keyboard.

Sure is a sad state of affairs when those in need are left to the vultures.

I just don't see how anyone could justify this.

Brilliant, i know a lot of squatters and this is defiantly gonna keep them out of crime, by KICKED THEM OUT OF WHERE THE LIVE !!!!!!!


nut cases!

Now, if you poor down trodden Limeys had some guns left you might be able to do something to stop the totalitarian set of your ugly goverment.....only the IRA and criminals remain armed......
It very plain that the house of Lords is a left over from feudalism, and its appalling that people get appointed to goverment BECAUSE THEY ARE ROYALTY.....FOR LIFE!...thats just sick....
Like i said too bad you gave up your only defense against a totalitarian goverment which it apears we are all gonna get sooner or later.....

Can I just make absolutely clear what the general idea of squatting entails.

Taking an empty, disused or discarded building and using it for better purposes.

It does NOT entail stealing a home from a pensioner. This MAY have happened, but then again millions of things happen which cannot be planned for. This should not be an accurate reflection of what squatting entails. Most squatters frown upon this as it tarnishes their own image.

Squatting is not the problem, more an after effect of a problem. When buildings become disused and people become disaffected , homeless or in trouble, it should not come as a surprise that people seek shelter.

If anyone thinks that is criminal, then you should seriously pull your head out your arses.

Originally posted by ThinkingCap

Sure is a sad state of affairs when those in need are left to the vultures.

I just don't see how anyone could justify this.

How are they left to the Vultures? All anyone has to do if they find themselves on the street is pop down the council. Accommodation is found very quickly for everyone. There is no shortage of homes, the "crisis" is simply down to people not being able to buy a home, which in all honesty is only something that became fashionable in the 1980's. Prior to that, most people rented. Granted, something needs to be done about house prices, but there are more than enough homes for people who need them.

That said, Stoke City council is flogging old, disused homes for £1 each, right now.. All they need is some TLC.

As for "homeless", the actual amount of genuinely homeless people in the UK is tiny (London only has a few hundred for example out of a city of 7 million) and of them, most are there of their own volition having run away from home or got into substance abuse, then failing to take advantage of the social safety nets in place. The charities that try to help them spend much of their time trying to convince them to take advantage of the help and sort their lives out, rather than actually having trouble finding them help and a home.

These squatters, especially those mentioned earlier who are "professionals", are simply squatting through a desire to avoid paying their way like the rest of us and breaking into someone's home while they are away on holiday, changing the locks and calling it your own is theft, pure and simple.

Originally posted by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by mr-lizard
I know of plenty of squatters in Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool , London and Leeds. Most of these are good people, with jobs (one or two of them work in high class jobs such as law and accountancy), others are care workers or tradesman.

in other words, people who could and should own or rent their own properties, People whom I'm quite sure earn a lot more than I do. But who don't want to pay for what they take because they can steal off others.

Takers and Users. Not givers.

edit on 31-8-2012 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)

Think what you will. But why blame the person, these people are pursuing jobs (if they weren't, I'm pretty sure you'd be calling them dole scum or scroungers) but never mind.

Squatting is not always a permanent thing, many people who seek a foothold in standard society when moving from city to city quite often squat or rough it. It's called adaptation.

I do not deny that their are some awful squats, but until you open your eyes, you'll only measure the subject on your biased opinions and lack of knowledge. Good things never get reported.