The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

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posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 
Shhhh ya dang fool!!!




posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Xoanon
P.S. I'll stick my neck out here: I presently believe that the strange loop that we are caught in, and that has been fomented and fostered by the scientists we are referring to as The Aviary, begins with Roswell and returns (re-curves back on itself) to Roswell.

As I've stated here many times, I don't feel that Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is a man who would be involved in a common scam or hoax.

I further feel that any involvement he has had in the UFO and conspiracy theory realm has--at least tacitly--been with the approval of the intelligence apparatus.

Xonoan references Roswell and wonders if the UFO aspect of our "narrative social structuring" might have had some genesis way back then.

At the very least, I bet the intelligence specialists learned a lot about societal narrative--and it's possible uses--after the crashed saucer story hit the papers. The following is from a declassified document:


CIA, under its assigned responsibilities, and in cooperation with the psychological strategy board, immediately investigate possible offensive or defensive utilization of the phenomena for psychological warfare purposes both for and against the United States, advising those agencies charged with U.S. internal security of any pertinent findings affecting their areas of responsibility.

www.deeppoliticsforum.com...


Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green

Trying to figure out the real info from disinfo when dealing with an experienced and talented intelligence operative is surely a monumental task. In the 2006 email from Dr. Green below, in trademark double-speak, he makes reference to 50 years of possible cover-up which would be 1956, so it's debatable whether it refers to Roswell. It's also debatable as to it's veracity.


From: Green, Christopher
To: brendan
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:25 AM
Subject: RE: 'Open Mind'

Thanks, Bren.
 
To the extent the Disclosure is real, it must needs be very complex. A multi billion-dollar program, with many levels of clearances, and a decision that a multi-year effort to release millions of pages of what has been heretofore a 50-year effort at hiding data is happening. The reasons are beyond us all to understand, but are underpinned by deep decisions of very high levels of government. Or, not.

linkl



Another former CIA source, Dr. Christopher Kit Green, has been hinting for years that the U.S.government had made contact with "alien astronauts" on three different occasions since World War II.

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Moving on, the following item needs to be taken with the grain of salt-shaker symbol from unpartial.com, but as the stories and myths get more complex…so do the coincidences.


Speaking of leaks, someone on the inside of the OM (Obnoxious Morons) team, recently contacted us and gave us some very interesting information. Some of it we already knew, and some of it we have long suspected. Some of it seemed like he might have been slipping us some false information in with the good.

Essentially, he told us that a certain Kit Green is at least three other people on that forum and is responsible for the majority of decisions the OM admin team make in certain situations. We’ll be reporting on some of this information in due course, but I did find it extremely interesting that two of these other supposed personas are Canadian.

During our Serpo investigation, ex team member “Centrist” told me how he had explained to Kit how he could connect to an ISP in another state or even country and hide his actual location from email and webservers. The example he used in his demonstration was Canada. Obviously, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the story because I wasn’t there, but not long after that a certain member registered at OM from Canada and proceeded to become a right pain in the backside to seekers of truth everywhere. Oddly enough, both he and Kit share a very strong chinese connection…

The allegation of OM creating a particular hoax in order to drive up membership and forum activity is a serious one that we are currently actively investigating.
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Today, we'll be looking at Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green in a more holistic way and hoping to gain more insight into the man behind the myth(ology.)

More later...

edit on 14-9-2012 by The GUT because: Jacques called and pointed out a misspelling.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


You mean like the Brady Bunch?

This is a story.... of a man named Kit Green.... who was creating a story called abovetopsecret.

drum sounds here.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Trussssssssssssssssssst in me......trussssssssssssssssssssssstt in meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee





Don't make me....... you really wouldn't like me if you saw me like.............





posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
reply to post by Aeons
 


You mean like the Brady Bunch?

This is a story.... of a man named Kit Green.... who was creating a story called abovetopsecret.

drum sounds here.



Man the Brady Bunch just got a whole lot of fracked up. Planning out the Brady Bunch probably would have been an easier and less complex story.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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In the following series of posts, we'll look at Dr Jacques Vallee's journal Forbidden Science II spanning the years 1970 - 1979. Covering a wide-range of life experience, science, UFO research, PSI phenomenon, the birth of the internet, and Jacques' introduction to the spooky world of the intelligence apparatus. Including his first meeting with Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green and their subsequent friendship.

Dr. Vallee continues to impress me with his daunting intellect, his commitment to remain free of any entanglement that would hamper his research and search for personal truth, and a very poetic soul. GREAT book.

Dr. Jacques Vallee


Throughout this time period, Kit seems to remain--at least in his conversations with Vallee--a sceptic in regards Ufology and the idea that we're being visited by extraterrestrials.

On the other hand, Kit does show an interest in esoteric subjects such as Witchcraft and scientific belief in the validity of PSI phenomenon. Dr. Green also shows an interest in another subject that may give insight into his make-up. Before I reveal that, let's look at a statement Kit made in Mirage Men:


"In a country that has a large, educated population there is a large subset of individuals who suffer from what's called paraphrenia. Paraphrenia is a form of mental illness that doesn't interfere with your everyday life.

It means that you can have a delusion and not be crazy, a delusion that you can confine and control. Many of us have one corner of the mind that is delusional - I bet you that I do.

Welcome to the club, Doc. I bet you do too. I'm teasing a little, and Doc may have been on to something, but it seems he had/has an interest in the early deaths of psi & parapsychology researchers.

Did he harbor a little tinfoil under his ball-cap and suspect conspiracy...or something else? Hard to say from Jacques' recounting, but interesting nonetheless. We'll touch more on that later.

Dr. Christopher Canfield Green

In life we always start at beginnings, but in cyber-space one can start anywhere that works, and here we'll look at a few paragraphs from the epilogue:


I have not emerged from this experience with much respect for the Intelligence officials I have met, in the United States or Europe.

While many are men and women of undoubted loyalty and integrity, and while they deserve full credit (alongside their equally committed adversaries in other countries) for saving us from the catastrophe of a nuclear exchange between East and West for over half a century, their performance in the manipulation of science in general, and of the belief in the paranormal in particular, has been shady, deceitful and ultimately harmful to the development of advanced technology.

While the belief in UFOs presents a convenient cover for occasional crashes of classified prototypes, unethical medical experiments or psychological operations designed to fool enemies, much damage has been done to good research in the process.

It is difficult for a scientist who is used to the culture of open criticism and honest exchange of data to feel respect for the methods of shadowy agents who invade your personal life, listen to your phone calls, open your mail, interrogate your kids in your absence and feed you false information, all in the name of some supposed higher duty to the security of the nation they claim to serve.

In my limited contacts with the agencies involved, I have met some of the brightest people I will ever know in this life, and some of the most despicable and sometimes crazy characters.

There was very little between these two extremes.


UFO disinfo as a cover for, "unethical medical experiments?" That's kind of disturbing. I wonder what those could be?

Forbidden Science II

edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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In this post we'll follow along as Jacques meets Kit Green and we'll also note as topics of interest to this thread, entries that touch on, spooky intelligence games, information systems, crisis simulation games on computer networks, and myth as shaper of reality.


Hal Puthoff has finished reading Challenge to Science. I showed him my catalogue; we discussed his Washington contacts.

The risk in approaching them is to get caught in weird games; I will have to stay on my guard. The potential benefit: understanding their role in the undercurrent, their view of the problem…

Weird games? Intelligence guys don't play weird games do they?

We'll see how the rabbit hole worked out for Dr. Vallee later, but we'll pick back up in his conversation with Hal Puthoff, and a subsequent visit with the late British Ufologist Gordon Creighton:


““Back in 1961 I published a science-fiction novel in which I imagined luminous spheres going through walls. Now Geller and Vaughan are seeing such spheres. The following year I published another novel in which the world became twisted when a young scientist watched his spoon bending in front of his eyes, now Uri is doing the same thing in your lab…

I hope he doesn't share those thoughts with anyone who might play games with narratives. Don't Do It, Jacques!

Gordon Creighton, BUFORA, Flying Saucer Review


….Gordon Creighton thinks that witnesses are out of their bodies at the time of the event, hence the similarity with occult traditions. I told him that Passport to Magonia was being misunderstood by Americans, who seem unable to grasp the mythic power of the phenomenon, beyond its physical reality. ““People misunderstand the word myth””, he said. ““They think of a myth as something that isn't true. They can't understand that, on to contrary, a myth is that which is truer than truth.”…

And now, Alice, the rabbit hole:


…When our conversation returned to the undercurrent and the activities of the government, Hal insisted it was time for me to meet his spooky friends. ““I'm ready, if they mean business. Where are they hiding?””…““They're getting nowhere,”” Hal said in frustration... ““They have no concept of the Magonia angle; they still see the topic in terms of extraterrestrial technology, propulsion systems, space hardware.”..

…Hal's contact is a boyish fellow, Dr. Christopher Green nicknamed Kit, a dynamic bespectacled young man of medium build with alert brown eyes. He holds a doctorate in biology, exudes optimism and refreshing humor…


Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green


…I had lunch with Pat Price and Hal Puthoff. A temporary clearance is being setup to enable me to visit Kit Green next month in hopes to better understand the chessboard. Oddly enough, in this situation, it is the individual researcher who is in the best position to gain an understanding. As I extend my contacts in Washington it is that precious freedom that I must preserve above everything else…

Jacques Vallee, unlike Al Gore, really did help bring the internet into existence, from his early days at Stanford to his seminal work for ARPA--precursor to DARPA--on the then called, ARPANET.


The Planning Network (PLANET) was the first ARPANET chat system, predating the Internet. PLANET was invented by Jacques Vallee, Roy Amara, Robert Johansen, and others from the Institute of the Future in 1973.

It was the first chat program designed for the ARPANET, and enabled anybody on the network to log into the system. PLANET was used in a series of evaluation studies, and had a considerable influence on those that used it and later research.

www.livinginternet.com...


He did a lot more than that, but that gives an idea of Vallee being there from square one. Now, Ft. Meade and games:


I spent two fine hours in the office of Tom Belden, a legendary analyst at the Institute for Defense Analyses. He came to pick me up in Kit's office and said with a chuckle, as he guided me down the wide corridors of the CIA at Langley, ““Do you realize that I have to use this bloody Agency as my cover?”

...The day was spent training NSA analysts at Fort Meade. There was a funny moment: sitting at a classified terminal to demonstrate Planet over the Arpanet…

…He told me stories about the early use of conferencing in the Intelligence community. We discussed crisis simulation games on computer networks, a subject on which I was eager to have his wisdom. He explained why multilingual computer conferences should use interpreters rather than translators, and told me about the ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups…

…Kit came over for a long talk about Lopez Rega, the cults of California and my theories of control systems.

In the second-to-the-last-paragraph above I've emphasized some key terms: Intelligence community, and Belden remarking on. "ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups."

Note also Kit's interest in Jacques' "control system" theories.

Forbidden Science II

edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Jock, Jock, the Doc, & Witchery



Over lunch Kit said that a friend of his recently attended a witchcraft session in San Francisco, where he actually saw the Devil. Later he was shown a tiny pipe connected to the central cauldron. It gave off a gas which made the participants susceptible to suggestion, after which they were programmed to agree on features of the apparition. Some of their adepts swear they have received communications from higher beings...

…Witchcraft groups are using the latest techniques in brainwashing and hypnosis, often in connection with nitrous oxide, leading to amnesia and irreversible post-hypnotic suggestions. The gas itself is undetectable; the only sign is a slight prickling of the extremities. So there may well be an occult organization that uses the UFO phenomenon for its own ends, and it could reach into higher levels of the military or Intelligence community. My concern is that a conversion to the belief in Aliens…

That's some crazy stuff. Shades of MK-ULTRA. But Jacques and Doc Green said so.




…It brings us back to a psychophysical control system. There's a secondary human impact, easier to analyze, the undercurrent working through groups using the alien mythology to propagate their own agenda. Examples: the Ummo hoax, the cults, the shadowy military folks who promote the Holloman affair. But I still don't understand the connection between these two aspects.


"Myth," and "Shadowy Military Folk," he says...I can believe it.

And now, our other "Jock":


Jacques Bergier, August 8, 1912 – November 23, 1978, Paris), was a chemical engineer, member of the French-resistance, spy, journalist and writer. He co-wrote the best-seller The Morning of the Magicians with Louis Pauwels of fantastic realism.

en.wikipedia.org...


Jacques Bergier


Bergier's scholarship covers an extraordinary scope of the weird. Jacques Bergier: We came back to ufology. ““What conclusions can we draw?”” He asked rhetorically. ““First, what we call reality is far more malleable than we thought. Why is reality so malleable? Simply because it's not the real reality! We've all been hypnotizing ourselves.”..

When it comes to the paranormal Bergier is a formidable source. Twice he played a historical role: First as a member of the Intelligence network that found the Nazi rocket base at Peenemunde (His old nemesis Werner von Braun, has just died) and later when he saved De Gaulle from a diplomatic mistake about Pierrelatte. American spy planes were flying over this nuclear plant, taking reconnaissance photographs. Furious, De Gaulle wanted the planes shot down. Bergier argued they were only interested in Pierrelatte because the Chinese were building a plant on the same model.

…““Somebody should concentrate on the Gestapo archives,”” he added. Jacques Bergier had spoken to me in the same way, with a sense of painful foreboding. ““Those Nazi thugs knew a lot of things. They had electromagnetic devices that affected both the physical and the psychic….

He spoke warmly of Invisible College but chided me for not pursuing some of the reactions I had noted among close encounter witnesses. Many of them have felt a peculiar pain at the base of the skull: that could be an epileptic symptom, he said, referring me to a paper before the Academy of Medicine.
“
“Could this result from an artificial form of epilepsy?”” I asked.

““Certainly,”” he answered. ““You're on the right track. You'll find it isn't too hard to make people hear voices. I know a fellow named Klein, who built such a device.”” He gave me the frequencies.

Over dinner at a Chinese restaurant he pursued the subjects of labyrinths, learning and control systems, an idea from Invisible College that fascinates him. ““There are two types of labyrinths, of course,”” I pointed out to him. ““Some are closed, some are open.”..

Spooks, Adepts, & Magicians, Oh my!

Forbidden Science II
edit on 14-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Spies, Spine-Crackers, & Control Systems



Kit and I met at Dulles airport on Thursday…I asked him what he thought of the Soviet psychotronic work, of Tom Bearden's contention that they are seeking offensive use of psychic techniques. He said that Bergier was mistaken when he argued the Soviets had a defensive approach.





““We began our first really serious analysis of Soviet para- psychology work about 1970,”” he said. ““Other agencies thought we were crazy, but they've now changed their tune. They even went beyond what we did. There've been four independent analyses, all classified… We found a dozen centers for psychotronic research in the Soviet Union.””

““What do they do?””
“
“Their work focuses on gifted subjects. They look for them in systematic fashion, throughout their population...

...DIA and others went farther than we did. I can't tell you more, but they speculated that the Russians had offensive labs where they were trying to blow up people's heads at a distance and break their spinal columns by PK.””

““What about the Foreign Technology Division?

““Their conclusions came in between these two extremes.”

On Saturday I was able to spend an hour with Jim Irish in his sound lab. It was an opportunity to learn about ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) radiations and their effects.

All the subjects we've been discussing in this thread come into play time & time again:


Murray Turoff and Roxanne Hiltz are attending this meeting on teleconferencing where panelists argue endlessly about the Delphi technique of forecasting…

…As I came out of a session where Turoff was a speaker, I found myself face to face with Bill Powers stepping out of another meeting…

...Conversation turned to research on higher consciousness under his feedback system of behavior. ““The only way to study a control system is to introduce perturbations into it,”” he advised.

An introduction of "pertubations" into the "control system," eh? That might hurt.


Dr. Vallee continues to develop a gestalt out of the themes that are developing around him and in his head. He shares with Kit:


I proposed to attack the UFO system by moving upstream along its own feedback loop. I explained to Kit how the topology of a control system worked and why we could try to affect it, even if we didn't yet know the nature of the actual agent (extraterrestrial, ultra-dimensional, collective unconscious, human manipulation, etc…)


We note here that to "move upstream" against it's own feedback loop--especially taking into account the mention that the phenomenon might be of the collective unconscious--refers, at least partially, to looping information to people.

Forbidden Science II
edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Et Tu, Brute? or Jacques Has His Suspicions



Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston, where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materializations. But what are his true intentions? He belongs to a small cadre of very bright Intelligence types who are looking for elements of truth.

There is no way to know what really goes on, and who pulls the strings. And even the bright ones can easily be fooled by their own system or fool themselves.

It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumors about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed.

Messsengers of Deception emerges slowly in the media, stressing the hypothesis that some UFO cases are the result of psychological manipulation by the military.

A close reading of the above, suggests to me, some very carefully crafted sentences.

Bittersweet Schemes, Memes, and Future Dreams...


I won't see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I have no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information. I carry my notes for Network Revolution. There is much to say about the world of computers we are building, the ““solid-state society”” on the distant horizon.

Sealed in boxes, our UFO library is ready to be loaded into the truck and driven away to a rented storage place where it will spend the next few years. I feel lighter and freer now, this mass of information pushed out of my life. I haven't found out what UFOs were, but I did change the level of the problem.

Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.

In Messengers of Deception, Dr. Vallee explores ufological deception from, mainly, two angles. The deceptive nature of the anomalous phenomenon and deception by frauds and intelligence agencies.

I get the sense, over and over in Forbidden Science II--and Messengers of Deception--that he has a burning desire for truth. He leaves bread crumbs but, as he stated above, he is, "condemned to understatements." That he returns time and again to the theme of intelligence agencies' and ufological deception is quite remarkable.

He wants to tell us…and he's done the best he can.


What have I learned? (1) The phenomenon is real but it offers multiple levels. (2) No simple extraterrestrial explanation fits the facts. (3) The governments of the U.S., Mexico and France have a keen level of interest (and the Russian and U.K. as well) but no scientific research project seems to exist. (4) Some of the brightest people in Intelligence get involved but the real data must be hidden at a different level. (5) Much of the official involvement is directed at faking data, not at discovering the truth. (6) Animal mutilations are real but probably unrelated to UFOs. (7) No solution will be found by mediocre, amateurish research.

Note item 5 above: Much of the official involvement is directed at faking data, not at discovering the truth. Passion evident, Dr. Vallee continues:


An intriguing article appeared recently in the Chronicle. A Quaker group, the ““American Friends Services Committee,”” has accused the police of engaging in large-scale political surveillance through an espionage network, the Law Enforcement Intelligence Unit, whose target they claim is the American public. Some 250 law enforcement agencies are said to subscribe to it, as the U.S. slowly takes some of the characteristics of a police state.

Is it within the murky world beyond the law, the domain of private security firms, major corporations and parallel Intelligence networks, that some of the answers should be sought for the manipulation of belief systems?

I'd say the evidence has only continued to build for that observation over the years. MJ-12 and Serpo come to immediate mind as candidates. We pick back up--in the next post--where we left off, speaking of the, "manipulation of belief systems."

Forbidden Science II

edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Later I had a long conversation with Tony Judge (who runs the Union of International Associations) about the physics of in- formation, which I see as the ““lost sister”” of the physics of energy they teach us in school. He was intrigued by the idea, adding this remark, that human beings may well have limitations in how much information they can absorb, just as we have limitations in terms of energy. We know a lot about the latter: how much we eat, how we breathe and process oxygen, how we absorb sunlight.
“
“On the other hand the information needs of man haven't been studied,”” Tony pointed out. ““Is there such a thing as an information vitamin? Are there information elements without which we can't survive? Are there laws for the assimilation of information, an information metabolism?””


Meme Meta-Metabolism


When it came to the sociology of UFOs, we speculated that a group (such as a paramilitary organization, an aerospace company or a secret society) could well have created illusions designed to take advantage of the genuine phenomenon...A huge secret stands before us, palpable yet undeciphered, and forever beyond the cultural grasp of the few government spooks who are trying to manipulate it.

...We keep learning some ugly things about the seedy underside of ufology, including stories that concern Siragusa, Jim Jones, Bo and Peep. Many contemporary cult leaders claim a mysterious ““contact”” back in the fifties

I have cured myself of the fascination I once felt for the Intelligence community. The realization came when I observed how easily they were fooled by others and fooled themselves. Perhaps they are the ones who can't face the real world and have to invent their own secret games to make sense of it.

And as the year comes to a close I am astonished to review the last 12 months: Ira accused of murder, Jacques Bergier's death, Jean Sendy's death, the crash of Bentov's plane, the passing of Chris Evans.

Most importantly, I now realize how stupid I was when I hoped that the Intelligence boys could contribute to a study of the phenomenon. They have a different agenda. They make up the most absurd stories and get away with it.

There is peace in Palo Alto, and reality, in contrast to such games. We pick our own oranges and lemons. A giant tree is showering us with gold leaves. We've always lived among trees: Auprès de mon arbre, je vivais heureux... as Brassens used to sing.


Let's look at that second to last one again: "Most importantly, I now realize how stupid I was when I hoped that the Intelligence boys could contribute to a study of the phenomenon. They have a different agenda. They make up the most absurd stories and get away with it."

Brings to mind how no one had to face any real music for MJ-12 or Serpo.


Thank You, Jacques! May you always be blessed with golden leaves and live amongst the tall trees. I knew you were one of the good guys.


Forbidden Science II
edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by The GUT
…Witchcraft groups are using the latest techniques in brainwashing and hypnosis, often in connection with nitrous oxide, leading to amnesia and irreversible post-hypnotic suggestions. The gas itself is undetectable; the only sign is a slight prickling of the extremities. So there may well be an occult organization that uses the UFO phenomenon for its own ends, and it could reach into higher levels of the military or Intelligence community. My concern is that a conversion to the belief in Aliens


Huh. I think I missed out.

You can achieve this effect without the nitric oxide feed. Deep meditative breathing, passing extra oxygen past your nitric oxide receptor in your nasal passages.

www.springerlink.com...

Auditory hallucinations and schizophrenia and nitric oxide.

Why do people have entire systems in their brain for this stuff? Seems a bit odd that every human on the planet has these brain systems. What use could they be?



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 
What does it mean that the voices stop when I have a cigarette?


One time, at the band Dentist, while he was out of the room, I tore off some of the med tape and covered the "gills" on the face mask. I had an NDE. Doc was NOT happy. I had a hard time taking him seriously though.


I'm retired from that now, too.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 

I actually read up on this aspect in bed last night:


…Witchcraft groups are using the latest techniques in brainwashing and hypnosis, often in connection with nitrous oxide, leading to amnesia and irreversible post-hypnotic suggestions.

It seems even without the enhancement, that hypnotism can make, for example, those who are "pseudo-abductees" virtual abductees by making the "experience" so real that the hypnotized person forever feels they had a real experience.

That's one indicator of how myth can be used to alter "reality" and become "true." I wonder how possible it is to achieve much the same result with narrative tampering?

It sheds more light on Gordon Creighton's statement from FS II I think:


….Gordon Creighton thinks that witnesses are out of their bodies at the time of the event, hence the similarity with occult traditions. I told him that Passport to Magonia was being misunderstood by Americans, who seem unable to grasp the mythic power of the phenomenon, beyond its physical reality. ““People misunderstand the word myth””, he said. ““They think of a myth as something that isn't true. They can't understand that, on to contrary, a myth is that which is truer than truth.”…



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Vestigial control system, mutating into another function is my thinking.

My paraphrenias- and that wouldn't be my first choice of words as it assumes that all belief systems are pathological delusions- are optional: I choose what to invest my belief in, and always hold some disbelief in reserve. In fact, I often try new ones on for size, and discard them if they don't have enough "nutrient value". Belief, when selectively engaged, reinforces one's principles and character. One comes to a point where the faculty can be gamed to your advantage rather than having it gamed against you.

edit on 15-9-2012 by Eidolon23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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I will post it here too.

If animals have the same system then it is original.

To control the herd then, you only need to screw with the members of the herd who are the ones who tune the whole group or part of it. You only need to control them.

TheGut - I was tempted to do that, but refrained. If I had thought I'd have more time, I would have. O:-)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Dr. Jacques Vallee never gives one long and scathing dialogue on the intelligence operations that played havoc in the ufological arena. Remember that his hands were somewhat tied and he was forever, in light of his own oaths, reduced to and, "condemned to understatements." Still and all, he flips the script and plants his own "easter eggs" along the way.

I had always thought of Anton LaVey as a counter-culture mischevious-elf of sorts. Dr. Vallee--although he eventually found LaVey too dark--tells us Anton was a very brilliant man in his own right. The following dialogues invoke the thought that it Takes a Trickster to Know a Trickster.

Jacques Vallee, Anton LaVey, and Aime Michel


Anton LaVey is interesting when he discusses the nature of secrecy. He points out that people are most thrilled by the impression of ““discovery.”” Therefore if you want the masses to accept your claims, you should never try to reveal anything but you should arrange for them to ““discover”” it. The best process to achieve this is what he calls the Easter Egg Formula:

(i) The magician gets up before everybody else, scattering brightly colored eggs for others to find.

(ii) He hides them in such a way that they can be discovered with relatively little work.

(iii) The secret of the existence of the eggs is leaked out.

(iv) The crowd rushes out and finds them, delighted with this revelation.

(v) Congratulations follow. (vi) Real secrets are safe and the magician's prestige is enhanced. Is this how the belief in UFOs works? Is the undercurrent built on the Easter Egg Formula?

The saucers are indeed like Easter eggs. Someone got up early and scattered them around for us to discover. Then he leaked out the notion that they were extraterrestrial. I'm not interested in discussing the eggs, nor do I care about the scientists who ““explain”” them away. Let's find out who makes them, and why. Actually I think I know ““why.”” The target is human mythology, the most powerful force on Earth. And there is no question that the phenomenon also functions on the material, physical level.


Crafting the Neuropsycho-Socio-Ufological Easter Egg


In his book Cosmic Trigger, Robert Anton Wilson makes the interesting observation that the lies and deceptions commonly engineered by Governments promote a paranoid atmosphere which permeates the public mistrust of science. Any form of collective thought is subject to influence and suggestion, and blind on fundamentals.


Robert Anton Wilson


In ancient Egypt people were controlled by a religious order supported by prodigies. Only the top priests knew how they were manipulated. One could speculate that society still runs that way. Is someone trying to provide humanity with a renewed Pantheon? The new Gods could only come from the sky. Is that why so much attention is directed at the notion that UFOs must be spacecraft while the more fruitful theories are discouraged or censored?


The All-Seeing Easter Egg



I've confronted Anton with the...report on mutilations, which specifically mentions his group. He tried to tell me it was a fabrication by the hippies at the Berkeley Barb. I laughed at this: Flickinger is a Federal Agent with the Treasury Department, not a bearded leftist. So Anton, his back
to the wall, pulled out his wallet and showed me his badge of the San Francisco Police Department:

““I'd have known about it, if the SFPD had uncovered serious evidence. I work closely with their Intelligence unit. They call on me when they have a crime that involves witchcraft or cults, like the murder in Daly City a year ago...””

Anton LaVey Counter-Culture MIB

The idea that Anton had such connections makes sense. He thinks that the government will eventually ““land”” a fake saucer somewhere, behind barbed wire, to generate speculation and demands ““for the release of the data people think the government must be covering up.”” Writer Bernard Newman had proposed such a deception scenario as early as 1950 in his novel, The Flying Saucer .

““Come on, Jacques, it's an old magician's trick,”” he added, intensely serious now. ““They've got to take attention away from real problems. The government’’s right hand does something spectacular to capture people's eyes while their left hand goes on with the real work.”


I don't know about a faked landing…but certainly, at least, a faked "implant."



LaVey ~ Man In Black(Pinstripes)

Forbidden Science II
edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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On the way to the Capital, and from there to New Orleans...I plan to come home through El Paso where I'll meet with Dr. Green, still in medical school. I expect we will argue again about the reality of UFOs and mutilations, both of which he keeps denying…I am unimpressed by people with secret clearances. UFOs and psychic phenomena are best studied in the field, not in the secrecy of Washington circles…

…I think of the UFO phenomenon as a kaleidoscope with three levels: a purely physical, technological level; a sociological level; and finally a personal, subliminal level playing on the subtleties of the human psyche. The first aspect could spell out an extraterrestrial origin;

the second one, if taken by itself, would point to human mythology and anthropology: that is the explanation favored by Kit and sophisticated skeptics, as opposed to Menzel and Klass, who flatly deny everything.

The third aspect is ominous: it provides a hint of a darker, terrestrial origin, earthly manipulation.

The formatting above is mine, of course, to point out item two. One of Dr. Green's ever-changing explanations for MJ-12 & Serpo indicated he believed some of it was true. And things change a lot in 30+ years I admit. Maybe he became a believer in E.T.

Then again we have Guy Russo's article from much later where Kit still seems to deem the ufological community as "psychiatrically ill."

What does seem consistent is Dr. Green's alleged interest in "sociological groupthink," and faked UFO data that smell an awful lot like "viral memes":


“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.” Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.



Jacques continues with his own easter eggs:


Something bothers me about such conversations with Kit: We speak past each other. I try to make him see the reality of the phenomenon because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers, but he continues to deny it, in academic terms that don’’t take the facts into account.

This made me think of the Intelligence boys I have met. Either they don't know about such incidents, in which case they are poor analysts, or they do know and they've never shared the information, in which case they're playing games. Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified ““anthro-pological”” factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data.

Another factor freezing open debate is the meddling of the Intelligence services into a domain of research that should be allowed, above all others, to blossom freely.


After experiencing "weird games" and events like this...


It is difficult for a scientist who is used to the culture of open criticism and honest exchange of data to feel respect for the methods of shadowy agents who invade your personal life, listen to your phone calls, open your mail, interrogate your kids in your absence and feed you false information, all in the name of some supposed higher duty to the security of the nation they claim to serve.

In my limited contacts with the agencies involved, I have met some of the brightest people I will ever know in this life, and some of the most despicable and sometimes crazy characters.


... I bet one does start assessing those around them:


“Do you work for the CIA?”” I asked him directly. He swore to me that he did not, although he had been indeed ““approached,”” as I had surmised. Brendan[O'Reagan] and I share the same reaction to the Intelligence community: Some fascination, mixed with disgust. ““These guys are unreliable, their contacts can't be trusted,”” I said. ““Not only that, but they keep playing games,”” he replied. ““You’’re right to stay away.”


Is there a theme going? Intelligence Spooks + UFOs = Games. And synchronicity:


Antonio and Vicente-Juan drove me back to Barcelona, and two hours later I was in Paris, where the weather was icy. At Châtelet station someone had used a black marker to scribble on a wall: ““The Lord is an extraterrestrial. He has come back in a flying saucer. Order of Melchizedek. 20 Rue Jules Vallès.”




Forbidden Science II
edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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I dunno,

I wish this thread could be reposted somehow. We've all worked so hard here and I think that we have gone places that no thread on ATS has gone before, but could never attain without prior ATS threads. See? It's all loopy now, and I don't think I made my saving throw.

Anyway, I hope people are telling their friends.

I can't get this song out of my head now for the last couple of days. I think that others on the thread will know what I mean when they hear the first lines and think of The GUT's Russo post.

And also, this thread has given me a heavy case of the Greens and the best remedy for that is some Blues, so if the thread will bear it...





X.
edit on 15-9-2012 by Xoanon because: .



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Xoanon
I dunno,

I wish this thread could be reposted somehow. We've all worked so hard here and I think that we have gone places that no thread on ATS has gone before, but could never attain without prior ATS threads. See? It's all loopy now, and I don't think I made my saving throw.

Anyway, I hope people are telling their friends.

You're my hero, X. Eidy, too. Word. My fault I went off half-cocked. Then again, if it hadn't been a "sleeper" we may have never gotten as far as we have.

I am DIGGING the song...had to open a new window to reply so as not to kill the buzz.


edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)





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