The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

That's it then? We are all going to go mad together on this thread, aren't we?

2nd

Originally posted by Xoanon
That's it then? We are all going to go mad together on this thread, aren't we?

2nd

Well it depends on what you mean by "that's it." I mean, there's more discussion that can be had. There are more bits and pieces of info. Some info can't be brought here because of T&C and I understand why, but that ties my hands a little. There's further interesting extrapolations I'm guessing. I know some here feel the thread was anticlimactic...but mebbe the bomb just hasn't gone off in the belly yet, for some. If, as Eidy hypothesized, there is an interdimensional angle to this, then the further implications are mind-blowing.

Also, I think we've seen tests introduced into our "petri dish" of a culture that were outside of the UFO topic. If one were to figure out some of those, then one could do what Dr. Vallee suggests about the ufo "control system" and rather than looking at the movie screen and soaking in constructed fantasy, peek inside the projector booth and see the machinations.

As Dr. Valle stated about manipulating the control system, "I hesitate, you understand, to be more specific."

reply to post by The GUT


Anticlimactic?

It has been a lot of things but not that.

I am surprised to find that there seem to be those on the thread that think you are somehow responsible for 'bringing it on home' and saying 'what it all means'.

What bull#. Seriously. I personally identify those folks as ones that have not read this thread all the way through.

I don't think that anyone came here for answers, and I am saddened that they find themselves in a position where they would even accept anything like an 'answer' concerning all of this. I would be completely suspicious of anyone proffering an 'answer'.

What your thread has set us up to do here, is ask better questions.

I'm sorry, TG, I really want to create a brief of what we have learned so far along with speculations based on same but am having a crushing day.

BRB.

X.

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www.networkworld.com...

DARPA's In Ur Brainz, Hacking Ur Storiez

Originally posted by Xoanon
I'm sorry, TG, I really want to create a brief of what we have learned so far along with speculations based on same but am having a crushing day.

Wish I could be there in person to help un-crush it, but my spirit, X, it's with you. Looking forward to your thoughts when you have more time.

1.

Well, I’m very sorry we’re having this little spat. I certainly did not expect it. I thought I explained the issues well enough that they wouldn’t be taken personally. I called no names and kept to the issues. Ask yourself if you are doing the same thing. Calling me disingenuous is not something I can take seriously. Although the Emperor can execute the boy who pointed out he has no clothes, the Emperor still remains without clothes. Pretend they don’t exist if you want, but there are serious issues here. Basically you are building a House of Cards on a very shaky foundation.

First of all, the Aviary does not exist. It was a term of convenience invented by a discredited researcher, Moore, who let his invention get away from him. Moore thought of himself as a pretty smart cookie and indulged a boyhood fantasy by thinking he could be a real spy and therefore spy on the spies. Instead he got played (or pwned as the youngsters say) and in so doing he helped destroy a man, Bennewitz. And not only that, he got played with the MJ-12 documents, too. I think it is fair to say he was neutralized. Is this a big conspiracy? I don’t think so. He just got slapped around by a two-bit player, Doty, an enlisted man, which isn’t exactly high up the heirarchy, in a fairly unimportant organization, AFOSI.

You don’t give Earth-shattering secrets to sergeants. They are the tip of the spear, not command and control. Doty’s operations were small potatoes. Mess with one guy’s head. Throw a wrench in the sprockets of LMH’s “research” bicycle, already teetering on its edges. If Doty’s superiors knew what he was about, I doubt they would have approved. Moore came across a loose cannon, and they’re still laughing about it. But moreover, Moore came to believe his own analogy, that there actually was an Aviary, an entity staffed by people sharing a common goal. Moore set his own self up for failure. Other people obliged him.

And here you have used the same collective noun in an attempt to “bring it all together.” Unfortunately, it is something that was never together in the first place. There is no Mr. Big coordinating all these bit players, Boris Badanovs and Natashas, to a central purpose. Indeed, when you look at what all these folks are doing, they are working at cross-purposes with each other. If you accept the idea that there is a big, bad conspiracy going on meant to control the minds of the masses, then it must be the most screwed up attempt at world domination in history. It’s laughable.

And now we come to the issue of “ties”. As I have repeatedly pled, you have to define your terms. I don’t see that happening. These “ties” make or break your case and the fact is, they are mostly not there. The word “tie” is an inference of a connection, a coordination of efforts and a unity of purpose. Yet the word is often used to portray the flimsiest of connections. I’ve said this before. If you have two 32nd degree Masons in the same Lodge for 30 years, I would count that as a bona fide “tie.” But if you were asked to give a single “briefing,” i.e.: A speech, to a roomful of spooks, that’s hardly a “tie” that implies any kind of serious connection.

The problem is that the word “tie” can be used to turn speculation into “fact” and is typically used in conspiracy theory to expand and confirm said conspiracy by leaps of faith. Dolan does this repeatedly. For example, he first tells us that Gene Pope once worked for the CIA. Wow! That’s something! He actually worked there and drew a paycheck there. Dolan gets his information from Terry Hansen’s “Missing Times.” What he neglects to point out is that Pope was 24 years old at the time, worked there less than a year, and hated the CIA bureaucracy. He also spoke fluent Italian and worked to disrupt the Communist Party in Italy.

Hansen weaves this tale and concludes that “maybe this is not a meaningless coincidence.” By the time Dolan gets done with it, we know, for certain, that Pope got his money to buy the National Enquirer from a CIA slush fund whereupon he printed disinformation about UFOs. There is not one shred of evidence that this is true and PLENTY of evidence that Pope got his money from the Mafia, but because of that word “ties” the conclusion is that the big bad CIA is at it again. See my work on Dolan, page 7, for a full accounting of this issue. www.scribd.com...

This is an example of a pretty good tie, actually. Pope DID work for the CIA, but the conclusion is still bogus. It’s an example of misusing the word “tie” to make something larger than it really is. Just the word “tie” alone evokes the idea of a nefarious connection.

2.

Greer is a case in point. Greer “has ties” to the intelligence community. What ties, exactly? Well, he has frequently said he has met with rooms full of spooks, been invited to meetings both small and large, briefed the Director of the CIA, etc. He has said he will meet with anyone or any group any time to discuss the issues. His reports of said meetings range from incredulity to death threats against him. He portrays himself as antagonistic to their efforts, or, as is the case with Woolsey, helpful, because the CIA Director was out of the loop.

Woolsey, for his part, hotly denies the issue and says he was just being polite to Greer and his wife at a dinner party. In spite of a letter from Woolsey’s attorneys, Greer turns this right on its head and says this was the “cover story” and continues to maintain his account of the meeting to this day. The odd thing is that according to Greer Woolsey didn’t know anything about the Shadow Government and said, “How do I get control over something I don’t have access to?”

There is no question that Greer and Woolsey met. Both men agree to this. It’s just that they differ markedly on what happened. Ironically, Woolsey’s denial is seen in conspiracy circles as proof that what Greer said was true. It’s a crazy world where saying something did not happen constitutes “proof” that it did. That’s a good example of conspiracy logic at work.

But this all translates to “Greer has ties” and THAT translates to, “Greer is part of the conspiracy.” THAT’S what “has ties” means. When it is claimed that someone “has ties” you are expected to infer that this person is part of the conspiracy. When someone says “Greer has ties” your inferred conclusion is, “My God! He’s part of it, too!”

These last two examples are ones where there really were “ties” between the individuals involved and the “intelligence community,” but as we have seen, these really solid “ties” amount to naught when they are examined. These “ties” amount to abject unsupported speculation trotted out as some sort of “truth and proof” of a conspiracy. That’s why if you are going to claim “ties” you absolutely must define exactly what those ties are and how they relate to the conspiracy. It might not matter so much on a place like ATS, where “deny ignorance” too often means “deny your own ignorance,” but if you intend to have an impact at all, to change minds, to convince people of the veracity of your claims, you cannot expect to throw your theses on the wall like Luther and see what sticks.

And just what is our conclusion? Well, it’s pretty nebulous so far. It appears to be that there is some sort of coordinated effort at some sort of “mind control” intended to shape and/or control public opinion in such a way as to allow a group or groups of Bad Guys™ to do whatever it is they want to do.

According to Greer, the Shadow Government wants to wage war on the Space Guys for some unknown reason and they need the populace to support trillions of dollars to weaponize space in support of this effort. To accomplish this they have an ongoing campaign of presenting aliens as evil. They do this by fake abductions, cattle mutilations attributed to aliens, and really bad movies like Independence Day to influence public opinion. Because they have done this, when the real aliens arrive, we will readily consent to blowing them back to Mars.

I can’t think of a more ludicrous line of reasoning. It makes no sense whatsoever. The public has no role here. They needn’t be consulted. If the Shadow Government wants a trillion dollars, they’ll just steal it. According to Rumsfeld, they already have. Public manipulation is not necessary to accomplish this goal. It also completely contradicts the idea that Greer is part of the conspiracy because of his “ties.” He’s blowing the lid off of it, completely exposing such a scenario.

OK, well, what if that scenario is simply not true. What of the Shadow Government is attempting to manipulate public opinion to prepare people for accepting the aliens when they announce themselves? This is the pre-Disclosure argument used by many. That begs the question. What about all those abductions and bad Independence Day movies? Besides, that makes the Bad Guys™ quasi-Good Guys. They’re just trying to help and prevent wholesale panic.

There’s always the issue of Power, Greed, and Money! This is the answer to all conspiracies. Indeed, it’s a conclusion in and of itself. It is supposed to “explain” everything, except that it doesn’t. It’s like Chemtrails. They are spraying us with chemicals! What chemicals? Don’t know. Has this stuff landed on leaves and stuff and been analyzed? Uh, no. What’s the purpose? Don’t know. But it’s a conspiracy. Okey dokey. I guess that about wraps it up and we can all go home.

3

So what do we have here, really? About all I can see so far is that we have a very few bona fide PhD type scientists who have worked in the intelligence community who have an interest in mind control techniques and also expressed an interest in UFOs. Alexander is an example. He even wrote a book. We also have a few people who have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar spreading disinformation like Serpo into the UFO community. (Don’t you just love all these “communities”?) These guys either have “ties” (low-level ties. They aren’t admirals and generals) to the intelligence community, like Doty, or they are simply nutcases, like Meier, who only have alleged “ties” to the CIA no one can prove, or sometimes they’re both, like John Lear, who is a nutcase AND has “ties” to the intelligence community by virtue of being a hired pilot flying for a CIA front business in Southeast Asia. He was a contract employee, but you always hear: “Lear is CIA!”

Most of these guys do not have “ties” to each other. Most of them, I would maintain, are just a nuisance, like Doty. It’s not that he’s harmless. After all, he DID help push Bennewitz over the edge, but in the greater scheme of things these guys are low-level bottom feeders without any significant impact. Many of them have been completely exposed as charlatans by all but the most credulous believers. Even ATS has typed them as scam artists. Then there are the completely ineffectual ones with delusions of grandeur who think mucking up a thread with silly posts is "doing" something useful. They aren't even bit players, just felons with nothing to do.

Does that mean there’s nothing going on? Of course not. I think we can make a credible case for advanced secret aircraft, triangles, for example, which some of us have seen. We can make a case for experiments on humans done by the military or the “intelligence community” using drugs and perhaps more mechanical means. (I’m thinking some sort of frequency generation here.) We can make a case for experiments in mind control to remote viewing. We can make a case for government interest in UFOs, even, on occasion, an intense and secret interest.

I even believe that we can build a case beyond the parameters of accepted science when we speculate on the IDH, as the GUT has done in a previous thread, or personal experiences which suggest Reality is more complex than we suppose. Where I suggest we get into trouble is when we invent patterns that aren’t there, then follow them as if they were real.

I’m not claiming that adding a few footnotes will make things all better. If you follow Dolan’s thousand footnotes you will find many lead to dead-ends or simply show he repeated what someone else said, which leads to a dead end itself.

This whole thing is based on a foundation that is not there, a chimera made to look real because too many don’t understand its origins. On top of this is built a vast House of Cards held together with ties sometimes so nebulous that they do not bear any kind of scrutiny, and, even if they are there, turn out to not mean much really useful. Once in awhile there is a solid connection, like the 32nd Degree Masons working together for 30 years. That’s a tie I can accept, but most of them are the shoelace variety. You just wind up tripping over yourselves trying to keep it working.

In the end you can’t come to any solid conclusions here. You haven’t found the door to a vast storeroom of gold and diamonds. You haven’t found a vast conspiracy now laid out before you. You’ve just come back to the beginning, to the Aviary, Guys with Ties, and not much else. Sorry. It’s still a noble effort.

reply to post by schuyler

First of all, the Aviary does not exist. It was a term of convenience invented by a discredited researcher, Moore, who let his invention get away from him.

This sounds reasonable. But if one of us found a 'secret group' or even suspected a 'secret group', we would want to give it some kind of name right? because we would want to be able to refer to 'them' some how.,...

Moore thought of himself as a pretty smart cookie and indulged a boyhood fantasy by thinking he could be a real spy and therefore spy on the spies. Instead he got played (or pwned as the youngsters say) and in so doing he helped destroy a man, Bennewitz. And not only that, he got played with the MJ-12 documents, too. I think it is fair to say he was neutralized.

...which would be convenient right now because even you are referring to a 'them'. Who? Who 'played' Moore? Who 'pwned' Moore? Neutralized by whom, and why would 'they' want to neutralize him?

There is no Mr. Big coordinating all these bit players, Boris Badanovs and Natashas, to a central purpose. Indeed, when you look at what all these folks are doing, they are working at cross-purposes with each other.

Nuh uh, schuyler. Check out Cybernetics it does not just use a multidisciplinary approach but what is considered a transdisciplinary approach. That is what these guys are doing, ganging up on problems. And what has been missing is the computing power. Not any more.

I for one have never been expecting a key figure that is running the show and calling the shots. These guys don't function like that. Neither did folks like John Nash who was a past president of the American Cybernetics society, or Jacques Vallée for that matter.

And just what is our conclusion? Well, it’s pretty nebulous so far. It appears to be that there is some sort of coordinated effort at some sort of “mind control” intended to shape and/or control public opinion in such a way as to allow a group or groups of Bad Guys™ to do whatever it is they want to do.

Yeah, but calling them 'bad guys' kinda drives things off into the weeds. You realize that what these guys are trying to do is get to the core of what it actually takes to 'write' ('dictate' please consider how all these words are related at the moment) how entire societies function. Like the old computer punch cards, they are looking for ways to punch our collective cards so that we all operate on the same program.

They are trying to get a grip on writing narrative 'spells' to be cast on populations. It always comes down to witchcraft. Think of the witchcraft and magic that you learned about while studying Anthropology (the queen of sciences, IMO). Same #, schuyler.

That is hardly a small thing.



I love ocicats so you have to be nice to me.

X.

I see Dr. Green, Springer, and Franklin liked your last post. Jus' kiddin'!

Fair enough, to a degree, sky. It's your opinion. It's not like you don't have any points, but you use reasoning in the same way I did on many of your assertions. I'm sure you can see that with your takes on Doty and Greer. I say it's a fair enough process, but I'm not eschewing it one minute and using it the next. By focusing on Doty I do think you still miss where the rabbit comes from.

Speaking of Greer, on your last thread (which I applauded) you used the same technique as here: Facts, raesoning, and extrapolations. On your next thread your words may haunt you as your are building it. You might have to tone down some of the reasoning and extrapolation so as to avoid the pitfalls you see here. Think about it.

Anyhoo...Greer is an EASY--but valid--target in the UFO deception game. I went bigger and the degree of difficulty goes up. Go big or go Home, as my granny used to say right before she rode a log down the plume. Tough bird that one.

What is it about me saying the "Aviary" was just a touchstone and NOT the focus have I failed to explain in the three or four times that I've done so? Yes, it's a vague term fostered by Moore. It's not the point. The point is the intentions behind two or three players involved in MJ-12 and Serpo.

You are, also, I notice, still using examples rather than discussing and/or refuting the direct information regarding the principles in this thread for the most part. Hard to debate with the abstract rather than the concrete. I encourage it and will feel very comfortable and confident doing so. Please be more specific with exact points and pages from the thread. I think that would be awesome!

I still stand by my conclusions and I know we share some of the same views we've both come to over the years. Mainly our suspicion that we deal with something along the IDH lines as you've pointed out.

Ultimately, on this thread, we do deal with some rather unforgivable hoaxes and quoted sources that don't leave much doubt that they don't see this community in a very positive light and yet, they join right in. Why? You did catch the dichotomy inherent in that, right?

Not for a buck I assert. What does that leave? The TIGER study is suggestive. The quoted material from Russo is suggestive. The Core Story along with Vallee's comments suggestive. Valle's and Green's friendship along with an interest in memes, modern myth, and internet philosophy--again, suggestive.Those things aren't only suggestive, they "agree."

Thusly, I don't see the thesis as wild-eyed and without basis. I won't even get into the swine flu thing. Did anyone catch it?

I do love ya, man. And I'm grateful to have had your participation here.

Originally posted by schuyler

Hey, all this sock activity might have my sniffer baffled, but I gotta ask...

I called no names and kept to the issues. ("Paleface" begs to differ.

-ed.) Calling me disingenuous is not something I can take seriously.

Are you referencing this?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And I felt slightly exasperated because there are plenty of potential motives littering the thread, so your reiterating your demands seemed disingenuous.

If so, did you:

A. Mistakenly think I was addressing you rather than NAA, or...

B. Are you having trouble keeping track of your personas?

Originally posted by Xoanon
Yeah, but calling them 'bad guys' kinda drives things off into the weeds. You realize that what these guys are trying to do is get to the core of what it actually takes to 'write' ('dictate' please consider how all these words are related at the moment) how entire societies function. Like the old computer punch cards, they are looking for ways to punch our collective cards so that we all operate on the same program.

They are trying to get a grip on writing narrative 'spells' to be cast on populations. It always comes down to witchcraft. Think of the witchcraft and magic that you learned about while studying Anthropology (the queen of sciences, IMO). Same #, schuyler.

That is hardly a small thing.

No, I don't think schuyler can see that, Xonoan. Part of it is my fault for not being experienced enough with threads and not having all my research ready to go.

If I had documented Dr. Vallee's early relationship with Dr. Green and SRI, etc. In addition to his thoughts on the relationship between "myth" and reality and information systems, and further brought in quotes from Dr. Vallee's works, some of this would've been a lot clearer I do believe.

I'll never, imo, do a more important thread and I bungled the one shot I had. Onus on me for the most part.

For anyone who is still interested, I suggest a review of Jacques Vallee's work especially Dimensions, Messengers of Deception, and Forbidden Science II. I have FS II in PDF and Kit Green and Puthoff figure fairly prominently, and tellingly, in places. So anyone wants that let me know. I'd be glad to send my hard copies of the other two by media mail as well.

Great reads, outstanding thinker, and he's a LOT more open about these subjects and associations than one can find anywhere else.

Please read all, schuyler.

Cybernetics is a transdisciplinary[1] approach for exploring regulatory systems, their structures, constraints, and possibilities. Cybernetics is relevant to the study of mechanical, physical, biological, cognitive, and social systems.

Cybernetics is only applicable when the system being analysed is involved in a closed signal loop; that is, where action by the system causes some change in its environment and that change is fed to the system via information (feedback) that enables the system to change its behavior. This "circular causal" relationship is necessary and sufficient for a cybernetic perspective.[citation needed] System Dynamics, a related field, originated with applications of electrical engineering control theory to other kinds of simulation models (especially business systems) by Jay Forrester at MIT in the 1950s.

Concepts studied by cyberneticists (or, as some prefer, cyberneticians) include, but are not limited to: learning, cognition, adaption, social control, emergence, communication, efficiency, efficacy, and connectivity. These concepts are studied by other subjects such as engineering and biology, but in cybernetics these are removed from the context of the individual organism or device.
en.wikipedia.org...

Dr. Jacques Vallee, Internet Pioneer, Friend & Consultant of Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green:

But perhaps we're facing something which is basically a social technology. Perhaps the most important effects from the UFO technology are the social ones and not the physical ones. In other words the physical reality may serve only as a kind of triggering device to provide images for the witness to report. These perceptions are manipulated to create certain kinds of social effects. 

If that's true, then the abduction cases are quite revealing. I am not concerned with how many switches there were on the control panel or whether the percipient felt hot or cold when he was inside the flying saucer. Those questions may be totally irrelevant because maybe that person never actually went inside the object.



But the report is extremely important for its symbolic content. It can help us understand what kinds of images are coming through. One might illustrate the difference in this way: 

An engineer observing a computer would want to look at the back and open up the boxes. He would want to take a probe and examine the different parts of the computer. But there is another way of looking at it; the way of the programmer, who wants to sit in front of the computer and analyze what it does, not how it does it. That's my approach. I want to ask it questions and see what answers I get. I want to interact with it as an information entity.

In the case of the abductions I think we're dealing with the information aspect. I came to that conclusion because abduction cases, in close encounter cases in general, what the witness is saying is absurd.

www.ufoevidence.org...

DIA TIGER Study - Chair: Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green & Alien Abductions:

True and False Memories as an Illustrative Case of the Difficulty of Developing Accurate and Practical Neurophysiological Indexes of Psychological States

An important issue for cognitive neuroscientists concerns efforts to determine whether a person is reporting a true experience or one that is false but believed. In the last decade, there have been innumerable research efforts designed to distinguish true from false memories. Earlier work examining behavioral differences between true and false memories revealed that group differences were sometimes found ...

…A notable exception can be found in the work of Okado and Stark (2005), who examined true and false memories in the context of a misinformation experiment and thus studied richer false memories. Misinformation studies show how readily memory can become skewed when people are fed misinformation…

Richard McNally and his collaborators (McNally, 2003) studied people who had very rich, although likely false, memories of alien abduction have been studied. One study explored whether people who believe they have been abducted exhibit heightened physiological reactivity (heart rate and skin conductance) that occurs commonly in patients who have posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) when they think about their traumas.

The “abductees” studied had experienced apparent sleep paralysis and hypnopompic hallucinations, which are vivid dreamlike hallucinations that occur as one is waking up, such as seeing figures hovering near their beds. Most had recovered memories with such techniques as guided imagery and hypnosis. Some of the recovered memories involved sexual intercourse with aliens or having sperm extracted for breeding purposes. Their physiological reactions were similar to those seen in PTSD patients who listen to audiotaped scripts of their traumas. Thus, expressed emotion is no guarantee that a memory is true.

www.nap.edu...

And a quick review on Viral Memes & Scientific Interest Thereof:

“Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.”…

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.” Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”

Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.”

Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online,

“The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”

www.realityuncovered.net...

Whatever Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green has been up to, in my opinion, it's certainly in the capacity of perceived "national security" and as such would be top secret.

He enjoys a continued respect and place within the intelligence apparatus that would NOT be extended to someone who was either involved in, or hoodwinked by, scams such as MJ-12 and Serpo unless they were somehow"okayed".

If that's true, does that make Kit Green a hero? In one sense, indubitably I'm sure. Then again, we know--from MK-Ultra/Iran-Contra/Watergate/Pentagon Papers etc that what some in the apparatus deem to be okay, the citizen sometimes feels to be questionable.

Some here have agreed that what Dr. Green was up to involved national security, but only in the sense of looking for security leaks and pathways. That was a part of it, I'm pretty sure.

But that theory alone doesn't explain all the variables involved. I've addressed that here, but I will continue to post my feelings and evidentiary items in coming posts that may elucidate that aspect further.

Springer knows Dr. Green well he tells us and vouches for his character. So that says something for Dr. Green. Springer also tells us, in the following thread/announcement that Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is a friend--and advisor--to our community here at ATS:

HUGE NEWS and AboveTopSecret.com Moves To the Next Level!

Swine Flu Interview

The initial questions raised might find some of the Aviary elements falling into all the categories. But if you, like me, find it highly unlikely that either Dr. Green or Col. John Alexander would go rogue and dump on their allegiances and continued fees as "consultants," then I think we can safely remove two from the list in regards to their main motivations:

1.) They are UFO believers who in their high-clearance careers have heard rumors and have subsequently tried to determine for themselves what the government is hiding in regards to UFOs.

2.) They know the truth and are attempting, out of goodwill, or as part of official disclosure, to get the info out to the public.

3.) They are involved in ufological deception for their own murky purposes apart from any intelligence agency directives.

4.) They are tied to the hip with intelligence factions and their prime directive(s) include ufological deception.

Dr Green from Mirage Mene, with a mention of internet memes of all things.

"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."

www.amazon.com...

..One of the inferences that you can draw from the situation is that before 1979 Bruce was quite cautious, seemingly afraid that he might lose his government classified research job, and after 1979, when he began meeting with the CIA, he seemed to abandon all these cautions and got involved with a lot of things that *seemingly* (were) going up against the government."
-Todd Zechel, one of the founders of CAUS…

"One of the inferences that you can draw from the situation is that before 1979 Bruce was quite cautious, seemingly afraid that he might lose his government classified research job, and after 1979, when he began meeting with the CIA, he seemed to abandon all these cautions and got involved with a lot of things that seemingly (were) going up against the government.
"Being one of the lead sponsors of the MJ-12 investigation -- if MJ-12 was legitimate, which I don't believe it was -- then Maccabee was certainly taking a number of risks with his security clearance."

It is Zechel's opinion that since nothing happened to Maccabee, his military employer wasn't displeased with what he was doing.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Yes, that would seem to be a risk for one's security clearance, eh? We continue.

Maccabee's contact at the CIA who had purportedly told him about the 15,000 documents was Dr. Christopher C. "Kit" Green. Green is now reportedly chief of Biomedical Sciences Dept. at General Motors; his replacement at the CIA is supposedly Pandolfi. 

Zechel said he once asked Maccabee directly if he was working for the CIA. According to Zechel, Maccabee stated, "You might say that."

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Would seem to put Dr. Green's reputation and work for the intelligentcence services at risk, too, and yet...

reply to post by schuyler
schuyler, Please review this page from Xonoan on down.

I know you ain't dense, and I wouldn't take you for anyone's stooge, but your calculator seems to be missing a key somewhere.