If It's Our Constitutional Right to Overthrow Corrupt Government, Why Don't We Do It?

I agree fully with those citing Fear. The government over the most recent 3 terms has worked hard at keeping people in fear, starting with 9/11 and going forward. Periodically we have been warned of vague terrorist threats that were successfully averted, we have been told that we must relinquish some of our rights to protect us from terrorist attacks.....and the general population at first was so afraid that it was amazing to see how many people swore they were more than happy to give up rights and liberties to prevent another terrorist attack.

More and more we see reports of our police officers abusing their power and inflicting unnecessary harm on average citizens, harm that the average citizen used to equate only as occurring to violent criminals.

People just want to be able to survive, incomes have stagnated while prices for goods and services have continued to rise, the "American Dream" is in the dust and people fear that just looking at someone the wrong way is libel to put what little they have in jeopardy.

reply to post by glitchinthematrix

If It's Our Constitutional Right to Overthrow Corrupt Government, Why Don't We Do It?

I've been saying it for years, educating and challenging ATSers for close to a decade.

The answer is the same now, as the day it was written.

all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed...
Charters of Freedom

I think about it all the time. My friends and I discuss it often. We've decided that a revolution is the only way we can save ourselves at this point. The election process is hopelessly corrupt and impossible to fix. The closest thing we can do to fixing that is mandating all voting in America be done via paper ballot from now on. Counted by people and not machines. Counted with multiple witnesses to every ballot.

The entire Congress, Supreme Court, and White House Administration must be replaced. The Fed must die. The law of the land must be the Constitution. But HOW?! As has been repeated plenty in this thread the majority of Americans are completely brainless and apathetic. So the odds of the first group of revolutionaries being able to get things going without getting either totally annihilated or disappeared or both is almost 0. There would be headlines for a week about a group of "domestic terrorists" that were apprehended. They'd cluck about it on the news for awhile and then everyone would go back to watching American Idol.

So unless we convince everyone who participated in the Occupy movement that now's the time to be Thomas Jefferson we need the military. The vast majority of the military are regular Americans. How can they stand for this oppression? Take command of things for a few months while everyone simultaneously holds elections to fill all the offices. 2 term limits for all offices. Anyone who has held office in the last 100 years is not eligible.

We need the military to step-up, honor their oaths, and stand beside us and march these people out of D.C. No one needs to die. But if they won't go? Well *shrug* Give me Liberty, or give me Death. But how do we convince the military to help us? Ugh, it's totally mind bending. The logistics of it all.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
reply to post by Elton

 

Tell that to our senators and president who order people to their deaths like pawns in some rich man's chessgame. They are the most unAmerican in that they threaten the security of all our citizens by making us a target.

Pawns like Andrew Breitbart....Julian Asange?

People in power for the people.....turned into pawns....John F. Kennedy and Abraham Lincoln?

There are many reasons that people don't want to overthrow the government. The first thing to ask is if it can be repaired. Replacing a government can end up worse than what you have. A bunch of people take over and mess everything up most times. Starting out with a sixteen trillion deficit doesn't help. Putting our nukes in the hands of irritated people doesn't sound good either. Anyone overthrowing our government couldn't be trusted to have our nuclear arsenal. I wouldn't suggest putting them in charge of the military either. I would suggest getting people in congress changed to more sensible and less boastful people. People who can't be bribed. Get rid of our current system of financing campaigns allowing little money to be spent on campaigning. We can get info on these people on the net. References and goals they would like to see done. Make them apply for the job, not be put into the position by people who will benefit by their being in the job. So much to do within the next three years. Put people in those jobs who are real people. Some of our politicians are good but they are forced to sell their souls to get anything for their districts. That is evil.

you already know why.... as long as you have your prescription drugs that make you have better sex, as long as you can text your brother in iraq via your smart phone, as long as you can order you thick crust pepperoni pizza from round table, as long as you can watch your monday night football in your comfy sofa then you aint gonna do nothing! PERIOD!

If this is true of the phases a civilization goes through,the it looks like we're about to go back into bondage,though it seems we have been in bondage quite some time and just didn't realize it.

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

I was kinda hoping the Oath Keepers would stay true to their word. Or maybe,like someone said earlier,they know they are outgunned?

Do you want to die? I don't want to. 'Nuff said.

So the question is "If It's Our Constitutional Right to Overthrow Corrupt Government, Why Don't We Do It?"

There is more than one reason for this. As has been pointed out here, the founders warned that

Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

So first we ask, do we have a cause(s) to cast off our current government? And is ours a corrupt government?

This is the first problem. While virtually all people would admit that their is corruption in government, there is not a majority or unifying consensus on having enough cause for action. I personally would point out numerous cases where the fundamental rights, who the founders attempted to secure in writing the Bill of Rights, have been trampled on and all but eliminated. They only exist symbolically and not practically. The fact that the government has grown so large. However, the biggest indicator for cause for action can be credited once again to the writer of the Declaration of Independence when he said

When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

I don't know a single person who is not afraid of the government in one way or another. We live under a tyranny, just not a tyranny of a single individual.

However, many would disagree with my assessment. Some think that our freedoms of speech, assembly, petition, arms, security etc are only reasonably restricted. Many think that the system is still open enough to change it; that the two party system, the media, and corporate person-hood funding politics is not so big that ideas, values and liberty can be stopped.

I don't think that there will ever be a circumstance that unites the people, no matter how corrupt. Just look back to Nazi Germany. Despite the corruption and dictatorship, the people never stood up to it. The only attempt to stop the system from within failed. I think the only feasible chance to change things in the US would likewise have to occur from a small but powerful group of benevolent and altruistic leaders inside the government. As I don't see people, or enough people, of such characteristics being in or getting into the upper echelon of politics, it will never happen.

Unity aside, the masses are pacified by their creature comforts. They still have access to cheap McDonald's burgers. They can use their cell phones and iPads. They can access their porn and cartoons from multiple platforms 24/7. They can satisfy their voyeuristic and exhibitionist intentions through social media and reality tv. They can even be feed their divisive political view-of-choice without having to think or research laws, ideas or actions, so they can feel involved and intelligent. They are so willing to give up some if not all of their freedoms: to speak out against the government, to be able to assemble without being herded into 'free speech zones,' to own arms without restriction, to be secure in their homes and person, to not have to incriminate themselves, to not be irradiated or molested when trying to travel by modern means. No, despite the usurpations of freedom, the people consider their evils sufferable.

However, in the end, it all comes down to the insurance policy we have in the Constitution. The founders put in that one little clause so that we always had a way out. The 2nd Amendment.

This too has been made impotent. Even if everyone agreed upon justification and the people lost their comforts and were fed up, we simply don't have the means to engage in revolution. The government has a standing army vast and powerful. They have purposefully made it so the civilians cannot have access to the arms necessary to engage in open revolt. The founders warned against a standing army. They also didn't make singular qualifications in the 2nd Amendment when saying 'right to keep and bear arms.' The government and media have used fear to get the people to support the ever increasing limitation on arms. We are simply out-gunned.

So as you can see, despite ample justification, we lack unity and the means to overthrown our corrupt government, and the people as a whole are kept dumb and pacified just enough.

Originally posted by Wolf321
So the question is "If It's Our Constitutional Right to Overthrow Corrupt Government, Why Don't We Do It?"

... despite ample justification, we lack unity and the means to overthrown our corrupt government, and the people as a whole are kept dumb and pacified just enough.

This appears to be the case,and not to mention,belief in God has dwindled to the point I doubt anyone would even think to pray for some divine intervention,which we sure could use about now!

Well it is written that way - anyway - but what you are not considering is - we are not free - we never were.
we have stories - that claim things - sort of like freedom of the press ... that became truth - if you tell a lie long enough it becomes truth. but when it get to court - you cant use hearsay - just the facts - and the facts are
we never won our independence - its that simple - we celebrate july 4th right - thats the day we declared our independence - not the day we won it - that would be in 1778. but the british were still here until 1792 and they came back in 1812.... and burned washington dc... so despite what you have been told ... it appears we are a british colony.

French involvement proved decisive[10] yet expensive, ruining France's economy and driving the country into massive debt.[11] A French naval victory just outside Chesapeake Bay led to a siege by combined French and Continental armies that forced a second British army to surrender at Yorktown, Virginia in 1781. Fighting continued throughout 1782, while peace negotiations began.
In 1783, the Treaty of Paris ended the war and recognized the sovereignty of the United States over the territory bounded roughly by what is now Canada to the north, Florida to the south, and the Mississippi River to the west.[12][13] A wider international peace was agreed, in which several territories were exchanged.

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard
reply to post by glitchinthematrix

 

because when they try to organize they get wisked away in a black suv with tinted windows. BTW, postings like this get people locked up these days. Watch your back

Im 26 now and believe the "hippies" had it right. Occupy is nothing. We need those 10000 peaceful protests in front of the white house.

Until it happens protests will fizzle and people will keep looking at protests as outdated practices that never get anything done.

Which will signal the end of true freedom. How anyone can't see similarities in the US government agencies using tactics straight out of countries under a dictatorship rule is astonishing to me.

Originally posted by Malynn
But HOW?!

The how is irrelevant as long as we lack unity and the means, and the people remain sedated. The tactics of overthrowing the government while minimizing civilian casualties and collateral damage is actually easier than one may think.

The vast majority of the military are regular Americans. How can they stand for this oppression? Take command of things for a few months while everyone simultaneously holds elections to fill all the offices. ...
But how do we convince the military to help us?

As a veteran I can give some analysis on this. First, the three main reasons people join the military are as follows: to learn military skills (tactics and access to military weapons and operations) AND/OR job security AND/OR to gain a position of power/authority. There are other reasons, and many have multiple reasons that often include defending America etc, but those are the three main reasons I noted while in the service.

Those who have job security or a need or authority as their main motivator will not buck the system much if at all. They will play by the rules, and in the case of the power trip, try to legally manipulate they system to their advantage.

When you join the service you lose even more of the already eroded rights you had has a civilian such as freedom of speech, right to bear arms, assembly etc. They are aware of the oppression of the people, but they are tacticians, not politicians. Even if they took over everything militarily, they wouldn't be sure who they would be turning over the country to. We cannot trust our elections now, what would make any election more valid?

I do honestly believe that if the military was ordered to start ground operations against the people, there would be significant dissension in the ranks. I think that the government knows this, and as such are trying to empower local law enforcement and other federal agencies that are less honor-centered, to engage in martial operations. When the time comes, the government will want the military off on the sidelines.

Ultimately, I don't think that anything we or the military could do to restore the US to a state of liberty. What I see happening, is the weight of the system or some outside force will have to bring the system down, and the US will need to reboot and be rebuilt from the lowest levels up, ultimately regional government banding together again under a common recognition of freedom and the rights of man, and to secure themselves from the rest of the world.

reply to post by glitchinthematrix


Personally I think there are a number of reasons and I will list them below.

1) Between the chemtrails, fluoride (and heaven knows what else) is in our drinking water and maybe food to make us more compliant, controllable and dumbed down.
2) The pollution of our air, water and soil - mainly now I'm concerned with the radiation but the CoExit and Agent Orange also concern me.
3) Our educational system dumbing down our youth and feeding them lies
4) Our moral decay, manners, being polite and just well decent have been thrown aside in place of moral decadence, self-centerness, lack of a unified family. Most kids now live in one parent house holds with working parents so they are being indoctrinated by hollywood, with violence and sexual perversions not meant for children.
5) Our society as a whole becoming more stressful as the rich elite 1% pit the 99% against each other like hungry, scared dogs, fighting over tiny scraps of meat.
6) Our entire globe now run and operated by corporations and enforced by the military with the police becoming more militaristic day by day.
7) Those that commit really horrendous crimes that involve huge numbers of people being butchered are allowed to retire in comfort and luxury while someone that steals for a loaf of bread or their daily fix gets thrown into a prison system that basically is slave labor for the corporations.
8) The corruption of those in "power", ie: our leaders.
9) Wars, endless wars, the funding of our military over social programs.
10) We live in evil times where justice is deaf, dumb and blind, right is wrong and wrong is right.
11) Our votes don't really count - it's a sham to give the people an illusion of choice. There is no choice, the boys at the Bohemian Grove have done decided your fate, my fate and that of our planet.
12) The majority of people have turned their back on God's word and commandments.
13) Many (not all) people have in arrogance, exalted themself as God. They do as they please like naughty children who ignore their Father and His wishes.

Why don't we revolt?

Again it's apathy - and most people are being distracted, dumbed down and divided.

A slave that doesn't or won't realize they are enslaved will never rebel.
A prisoner that does not realize they are imprisoned will never try to escape.

You would need hundreds of millions of the people who do the real work all over the globe to "go on strike" but you won't find enough people willing to challenge TPTB.

No guts
Living in denial in order to maintain their sanity
Some even think that by either complying or working for the corrupt Government will be "taken care of" or escape the deadly chaos that is coming. They think the fourth horseman of the Apocalypse will by pass them or that he is a fairy tale.

Read the Georgia Guide Stones - It is intended that 98% of us "useless eaters will kill each other off or be killed. The 1% left of the pions will serve and the other 1% will rule.

Personally, when I walk down the street, go to shopping malls, watch TV (and TV is a major mind control device) - the majority of people have glazed over eyes.

What is even more scary is those whose eyes look inhuman.

Most simply don't or won't see the trains coming - they think conspiracies to put into place a New World Order where the average person has no freedoms, no privacy, no real say so is ludicrous.

Most simply have chosen the blue pill because the red pill is a bitter pill to swallow.

red-pill.org...

The one at the very top of the pyramid's days are numbered though and those who did not fight back, revolt or speak out and try to change things will likewise be held accountable.

The warning signs are all there.

Each day that goes by the signs become clearer, more carnage, more insanity.

Time to suit up, choose sides and as Mother Abigail in "The Stand' says "It is time to take a stand".

Pretending everything is okay is no excuse, it's clear as each week unfolds that most of us have turned our back on God and are going to hell in a hand basket.

We've grown arrogant, decadent and apathetic on a insanely run planet.

But the chief instigator's time is coming up short.

Interesting article here; www.conquer2012.com...

The only reason I think it has not happened is because people are not entirely fed up with the government and how things are done, yet. I think the closest we ever came was at the end of Bush's second term. I mean with the war, the housing crisis, Michael Moore's documentaries, gas prices, bail outs, etc. There was just a lot wrong that you did not have to look beneath the surface to find. What happened then? Obama showed up! His platform did give a lot of people hope that things would change. I don't know how true this is around America, but where I live, people were pacified after he was elected. And for the most part, still are unless they are conservative. There hasn't been anyone in the public eye to expose the corruption that is still happening like Moore did during the Bush years. Most of the problems we are dealing with today, have been around for awhile so people have become accustom to them. Things are not great but they aren't exactly turbulent either. I'm not convinced the average person realizes how f*cked everything is. That's just my opinion though.

Kind of like when we have diarhea ? We avoid flatulence. Oily discharge may occur.

The last time we rebelled, we had a million or more casualties, homes were burned, families torn apart, thousands of men maimed and scarred for life... many more died from disease and sickness, and after 150 years... we are still divided over it.

Most responsible Americans realize the grave consequences of rebellion, armed defiance, and civil war. A modern revolution would unleash hell on earth here in America.

That is why so many hesitate.

However, should some "national emergency" arise that delays or cancels the upcoming election, or foreign peace keepers are allowed to help provide "security" in a collapsed and troubled America, or our national sovereignty is allowed to pass.... I can assure you that more than civil disobedience will show it's ugly head.

Reply to post by AlreadyGone

Im not convinced we would have to actually physically fight to change anything in America. The most efficient way to change things in todays world would be to not go to work and not buy anything. The corporations would not have it, at all. The only reason they do what they do is because they can and still make a profit. If everyone just stayed home for even one day the impact of that worldwide would be enough for the government to pay attention.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by AlreadyGone


I agree. I think that the lesson of our founders and forefathers has been lost on the people today. Liberty and living free is that important. Its worth risking all and dying for.

reply to post by acmpnsfal


I agree 100 %... however, the American Revolution had support from less than 30% of the colonists.

I recentlyfinished a book on North Carolina in the Civil War and was startled to find that NC almost had it's own "civil war" because it was so divided. Infact, NC was almost excluded from the Confederacy because many felt it lacked the overwhelming commitment of it's citizens... which it did.

Likewise, getting everyone to "strike" or boycott government and business is almost impossible... most people have things they have to get done... farming, kids, responsibilities... most people don't have time to "occupy" or not occupy.