5 Australian soldiers killed - worst day since Vietnam

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Thats what I was thinking. But damn Aussies, you are going to have to grow a thicker skin.

5 casualties could be the result of friendly fire, or a well placed ied.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

Thats what I was thinking. But damn Aussies, you are going to have to grow a thicker skin.

5 casualties could be the result of friendly fire, or a well placed ied.

Like the man said, there are only 1,000 support troops from Australia in Afghanistan and they aren't the ones dropping bombs on civilians.... I seriously doubt that you have served in combat because if you had you would identify with what Ex Commando's feelings...The only time I have ever thrown the first punch was when someone that never was in combat thought they knew more about what was going on where I had been than I had first hand knowledge of.

reply to post by hypervigilant


Understood, but Afghanistan is not a friendly place. One of the worst places in the world right now aside from the middle east and the US mexican border. And once again no offense, and my condolences for the fallen. But we might need to get use to this reality, I think the casualties over there are only beginning to mount. That place is going to be a blood bath by this time next year.

Originally posted by ExCommando
One of my countries deadliest days since the Vietnam War - and whilst I appreciate that the US suffers losses like this on almost a daily basis, it's a huge shock for Australians to wake up to news like this.

No; its not at all a huge shock, its an expected result. Be honest about it and acknowledge that the Afghan resistance is going to fight back any way it can just like the French resistance did in WW2.

If Australian soldiers invade another country they can expect to get shot. How naieve are you????

While I feel sick when I contemplate what the family and friends of the fallen are going through, I can't help but think that most Aussies wouldn't give a rats ar$e if 5 Afghanis died from a drone strike or at the hands of some other bit of unfairly advantageous tech. And that sucks.
Also, pride forces me to say that the reason we've only lost the few soldiers that we have is because we're so damn good.

Where did the OP go, its been days and no reply?

Silent....

Mickierocksman

Originally posted by homerJ
While I feel sick when I contemplate what the family and friends of the fallen are going through, I can't help but think that most Aussies wouldn't give a rats ar$e if 5 Afghanis died from a drone strike or at the hands of some other bit of unfairly advantageous tech. And that sucks.
Also, pride forces me to say that the reason we've only lost the few soldiers that we have is because we're so damn good.

Your right and straight after this story came out, so did an incident of Aussie soldiers killing a 70 year old tribesman and his 30 year old son who had nothing to do with the taliban or any terrorist activity...

www.skynews.com.au...

Now I'm not saying that our soldiers deserved to die and I certainly feel for the families etc, but when you see a story like the one in the link, it shows you possibly why we are being attacked whether we are Aussie, US or any other organisation on the ground in Afghanistan.

For all we know, that "Rogue Soldier" as they call him could of had a legtimate motive for attacking. Maybe he had a family member who was killed, a friend, who knows..

reply to post by Mickierocksman


Job well done?

www.theaustralian.com.au... (Opps, sorry repost from above, sorry Dark & Stormy)

Are you getting the picture of why they hate the invaders and why they want it to stop?

Do you blame tham?

Who will cry for these innocent civilians?

Mickierocksman

reply to post by Mickierocksman


I don't think he expected the response he got from his OP.

Hopefully it was a damn wake up call for him.

Ex military or not, surely the world is not that blind that they can't see the reality of the situation.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by hypervigilant

 

Understood, but Afghanistan is not a friendly place. One of the worst places in the world right now aside from the middle east and the US mexican border. And once again no offense, and my condolences for the fallen. But we might need to get use to this reality, I think the casualties over there are only beginning to mount. That place is going to be a blood bath by this time next year.

I agree with you. It seems things are steadily picking up again in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The entire region is just about at war when you include Syria and also a possibility of Israel striking Iran. This could be the final showdown... All the players are involved one way or the other.

reply to post by DarknStormy


You know in US elections are coming up in November. It also happens to be the same month many troops that are home are being deployed to Afghanistan. I've know this for a little while, most people don't.

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
Where did the OP go, its been days and no reply?

Silent....

Mickierocksman

He probably has a real life and doesn't have the time to suffer fools. Just a wild guess on my part.

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
Who will cry for these innocent civilians?

Didn't see too many ATS posters crying for justice and the lives of these innocent civilians.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Yeah, we probably do. But, we arent used to it, i mean its the largest casualty list since vietnam.. VIET-FKN-NAM!

It means more to use because we really are a close nit country, we're isolated and only have each other down here in this dismal southern hempisphere.

5 aussies in one hit is practically a quater of Adelaides population, i kid you not our stock markets will take a dive.

Sad day all around, but.. why the hell are we there? its beyond criminal.

Seriously, what is with the hate?!

I believe that respect ought to be displayed in this thread, not hate or resentment. Settle down. There is no need to produce hate provoking comments regarding Australian troops, and doubly so, considering there are ex-members posting here...how about a bit of courtesy hey?

Rarely, if ever do innocent civilians succumb to the actions of Australian troops. Put it this way. While Australia focuses on Winning Hearts And Minds, other countries are out there every day, killing and disrespecting civilians, and not caring at all. For example:

Does Australia use air power to demolish innocent villages? No, Australia does not.

Does Australia use drones to shoot at potential enemies? No Australia does not.

Does Australia kill enemies then take a leak on their bodies? No, Australia does not.

Does Australia burn Korans (the most important book in the Middle East), causing Nation wide riots? No, Australia does not.

The simple fact is, Australia, in no way goes out of it's way to disrespect the innocents of any nation they are aiding, and i believe there is a misconception regarding this from the members posting here.

Regarding the two males who were shot dead by Australian AND Afghan troops the other day, they were confirmed to have local ties to the insurgents in the area. Just because the President of Afghanistan (who, by the way is corrupt and stands shoulder to shoulder with insurgents) states that they were innocent does not make it so. Even ISAF and NATO were suspicious about the Presidents motives behind his statements.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

As for the insider attacks. I refuse to believe that is is revenge for whatever "horrendous crime" Australia has committed. I believe that these soldiers may be affiliated with the Taliban, and are carrying out orders to attack Allied soldiers. Think about it. What better way to defeat the enemy than attacking them from the inside? Make the enemy feel vulnerable. Make the enemy suspicious of those he is training. Destroy the enemy's morale by destroying them from the inside. This will achieve the desired result. Not only does it affect the soldiers' morale, but that of the country in which they are serving.

Again, i reiterate, Australia does not go out of its way to kill innocents. They never have, and never will. Show some respect.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Sorry for displaying my ignorance but I have an honest question.

5 soldiers dead and thats the worst day since Vietnam? What have you aussies been doing for the last 50 years? Patty Cake?

I mean no offense, but wtf?

Australia has been involved in every major conflict started by the US since WW2. So no, we weren't playing Patty Cake.

Firstly, Australia does not have the same amount of troops stationed overseas as the US does. We have a Defence Force, not a Military.

Secondly, Australians act in utmost professionalism. Australia does not send untrained soldiers into battle zones to be slaughtered (much like the USA).

Originally posted by daaskapital
Seriously, what is with the hate?!

I believe that respect ought to be displayed in this thread, not hate or resentment. Settle down. There is no need to produce hate provoking comments regarding Australian troops, and doubly so, considering there are ex-members posting here...how about a bit of courtesy hey?

Rarely, if ever do innocent civilians succumb to the actions of Australian troops. Put it this way. While Australia focuses on Winning Hearts And Minds, other countries are out there every day, killing and disrespecting civilians, and not caring at all. For example:

Does Australia use air power to demolish innocent villages? No, Australia does not.

Does Australia use drones to shoot at potential enemies? No Australia does not.

Does Australia kill enemies then take a leak on their bodies? No, Australia does not.

Does Australia burn Korans (the most important book in the Middle East), causing Nation wide riots? No, Australia does not.

The simple fact is, Australia, in no way goes out of it's way to disrespect the innocents of any nation they are aiding, and i believe there is a misconception regarding this from the members posting here.

Regarding the two males who were shot dead by Australian AND Afghan troops the other day, they were confirmed to have local ties to the insurgents in the area. Just because the President of Afghanistan (who, by the way is corrupt and stands shoulder to shoulder with insurgents) states that they were innocent does not make it so. Even ISAF and NATO were suspicious about the Presidents motives behind his statements.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

As for the insider attacks. I refuse to believe that is is revenge for whatever "horrendous crime" Australia has committed. I believe that these soldiers may be affiliated with the Taliban, and are carrying out orders to attack Allied soldiers. Think about it. What better way to defeat the enemy than attacking them from the inside? Make the enemy feel vulnerable. Make the enemy suspicious of those he is training. Destroy the enemy's morale by destroying them from the inside. This will achieve the desired result. Not only does it affect the soldiers' morale, but that of the country in which they are serving.

Again, i reiterate, Australia does not go out of its way to kill innocents. They never have, and never will. Show some respect.

edit on 3-9-2012 by daaskapital because: eta

Daas, you are forgetting that whilst Australia may not physically drop the bombs, the satellite intelligence is all handled from Pine Gap. Now, technically Pine Gap is American, however, it is on Australian soil.

Back on topic. I don't believe that these Australian soldiers were killed for retribution.

It is important to understand the conditions on the ground. Afghanistan is a war-torn country, survival still plays an important role. I would assume that there are not many jobs to be had, the "new military" probably seems an attractive option.

The Australians are trying to impose some form of 'western' discipline on a uneducated, religious, undisciplined and civilian male population. There are bound to be cultural issues, in addition to language barriers. I am fairly sure that they would prefer that the coalition of the willing, were less.


The problem is that trust dissipates on both sides.

The west has truly made a cluster farck.



It is a difficult job

Originally posted by deessell
Daas, you are forgetting that whilst Australia may not physically drop the bombs, the satellite intelligence is all handled from Pine Gap. Now, technically Pine Gap is American, however, it is on Australian soil.

Regardless of whether or not Pine Gap is located on Australian soil, it is an American base with the majority of workers being American. Hell, the base was constructed purely by American companies. The workers also get supplies dropped off at Alice Springs...

]Back on topic. I don't believe that these Australian soldiers were killed for retribution.

It is important to understand the conditions on the ground. Afghanistan is a war-torn country, survival still plays an important role. I would assume that there are not many jobs to be had, the "new military" probably seems an attractive option.

I would agree with that. Considering the influx of recruits, i believe that it would be safe to assume that some of the potential soldiers may have had ties (either previously or currently) with the insurgent forces. Obviously not all of the shooters would have ties, but it only takes one insider to do it, and the rest of the sheep will follow...

The Australians are trying to impose some form of 'western' discipline on a uneducated, religious, undisciplined and civilian male population. There are bound to be cultural issues, in addition to language barriers. I am fairly sure that they would prefer that the coalition of the willing, were less.

While the Australians may be training the Afghan Army in a "Western" way, all soldiers are taught about the attitudes, values, beliefs, culture and tradition of the Afghan population. Furthermore, i would believe that basic language would be taught to soldiers, with experts of the language there to assist.

The problem is that trust dissipates on both sides.

The west has truly made a cluster farck.



It is a difficult job

Yes, the trust does dissipate on both sides. But again, i raise the point. Is this not what the Taliban wants? The Taliban would enjoy creating a rift between the Coalition and Afghan forces. After all, it would be less work for them in the long run...

And i agree, it would be highly difficult!!

reply to post by daaskapital


I think it is too simplistic to blame the Taliban. It would be highly likely that there are other factions vying for power. There is a power vacuum that needs to be filled. By whom, is the question.

It is difficult to know, without being on the ground. The dominant western media just uses the term 'Taliban', but we have no real way of knowing.

It is these power struggles that fueled these killings.