Armed bystander stops stabbing outside school

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posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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A little info first. I am a life long martial arts student(32 plus years) and former MMA fighter. I am also a former Force Recon Marine and have seen stuff that still makes my skin crawl when I have to think about it.
Number one- Non lethal devices only work properly 20% of the time. Tazers have to many variables to be 100% effective. Pepper spray is a joke. It doesnt faze some people and most of the time you end up with a face full of it yourself when you disperse it.
Martial arts defenses against bladed weapons are about as effective as jumping off the roof with a cape and expecting to fly. The training they give you is based on certain scenarios and a pattern of set movements. Which doesnt happen in the real world. So, they are minimally effective at best. You will get cut and or stabbed. Your best hope and plan is to choose where. A crazed person with a kitchen knife can close a 20 foot distance and seriously injure and possibly kill you in 3-5 seconds. It happens that fast in reality.
I have a CCW and carry every day. Its a fact of life that most people dont understand. The average response time for the police in the USA for a high priority call is 6.4 minutes. Now, that doesnt seem like much but sit in a chair for 3 minutes and think about what can happen in that time. Most lethal attcks take an average of 12 seconds. Thats right, twelve SECONDs. The average response time of the armed citizen? 2 seconds. Do the math.
And the gun did nothing in this case. The fear of the bullet did.Guns are useless without bullets.




posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by JayFlores
A little info first. I am a life long martial arts student(32 plus years) and former MMA fighter. I am also a former Force Recon Marine and have seen stuff that still makes my skin crawl when I have to think about it.
Number one- Non lethal devices only work properly 20% of the time. Tazers have to many variables to be 100% effective. Pepper spray is a joke. It doesnt faze some people and most of the time you end up with a face full of it yourself when you disperse it.
Martial arts defenses against bladed weapons are about as effective as jumping off the roof with a cape and expecting to fly. The training they give you is based on certain scenarios and a pattern of set movements. Which doesnt happen in the real world. So, they are minimally effective at best. You will get cut and or stabbed. Your best hope and plan is to choose where. A crazed person with a kitchen knife can close a 20 foot distance and seriously injure and possibly kill you in 3-5 seconds. It happens that fast in reality.
I have a CCW and carry every day. Its a fact of life that most people dont understand. The average response time for the police in the USA for a high priority call is 6.4 minutes. Now, that doesnt seem like much but sit in a chair for 3 minutes and think about what can happen in that time. Most lethal attcks take an average of 12 seconds. Thats right, twelve SECONDs. The average response time of the armed citizen? 2 seconds. Do the math.
And the gun did nothing in this case. The fear of the bullet did.Guns are useless without bullets.


Precisely, but you really are wasting your time explaining any of this because:

a. individuals capable of critical thought already know and understand this, in fact it is so obvious that the fact that it needs to be stated is at best surprising to them
b. the others ... either:
- are dumb as hell and not worth the effort
- have an agenda to push

I hope all those in favour of repealing the second amendment end up in a similar situation, and I hope I am the other side of the street (with a gun which I will make a point of not using) to dial 911 for them. Unfortunately, the only cure for someone stupid enough to pretend, affirm and argue that fire doesn't burn ... is to get burnt.

If they survive, which isn't likely but even idiots get second chances in life, they are welcome back to this board to share their empathic feelings for the poor, unfortunate soul who stabbed them.

We'll wait here for you.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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Is it me or are all the post against the gun being used are missing the one important point of this.

The man pulled the gun, ordered him to stop and did not fire.

No shot fired, no loss of life, woman saved...

Wheres the anti-gun point here, no gun was fired, it was brandished safely as an effective deterrent?



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by JayFlores

The average response time for the police in the USA for a high priority call is 6.4 minutes. Now, that doesnt seem like much but sit in a chair for 3 minutes and think about what can happen in that time.


Seems so few people actually understand this. Or they think that "I've called the cops!" will prevent the assault.

Six minutes is plenty enough time to beat your family, rape your wife, empty the house and make a pot of coffee.

In some municipalities the response time averages 20 minutes or more.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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I give credit to the guy carrying the gun. It sounds like he used sound judgement. I would have no problem with people carrying but unfortunately all we see if the videos of the arrogant #s that carry to draw attention.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by benrl
Is it me or are all the post against the gun being used are missing the one important point of this.

The man pulled the gun, ordered him to stop and did not fire.

No shot fired, no loss of life, woman saved...

Wheres the anti-gun point here, no gun was fired, it was brandished safely as an effective deterrent?


Exactly. I'm against the gun law but I can appreciate those that do abide by the law and do not abuse their power.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Six6Six
reply to post by Screwed
 


Well this post isnt completely biased.....the OP has a damn gun tattooed on his arm.

Wow one person (a coward mind you) stopped a potential stabbing because he had a gun......but without guns most are slack-jawed, whiny nobodies who wouldnt say boo to a goose.

I was all for you "people" having guns but then I realized something.....they are like trophies for you. You were originally given the right to have guns for the use against a tyrannical government....but do you use them for that purpose????NO you are all to cowardly and pathetic.

But you do know how to massacre innocent civilians in the streets.


Why couldn't this guy stop the potential stabbing WITHOUT a gun? then when having stopped this stabbing showed himself to be a real man and said he actually has a gun but used his damn head instead.

The average gun carrying American (beside armed forces personnel active or retired) should not be allowed a gun because they and a cheeseburger have the same intellectual reasoning skill sets.


Someone is a coward for stoppin an innocent woman from being stabbed to death? That makes no sense. It isn't the movies, an unarmed person is unlikely to disarm a knife possesing person without severe injury. By the time you "attempt to reason " with him, the woman is dead.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by Screwed
 

But anyway I am concerned for the well being of the criminal yes. You never know what is going on with someone or what drove them to commit whatever crime.
 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



For you from Marko Kloos Give Them Nothing


A long time ago, I had a discussion with my former mother-in-law about my desire to carry a gun for protection. She was very much opposed to the concept, to put it mildly. When I asked her what her plans were if she ever got robbed at gun- or knifepoint, she replied that she’d try and talk it out with her attacker, or just give them what they want.

“Everybody wants to be respected,” she said. “We’re all just human beings.”

I told her that she was nurturing a very dangerous misconception, one that could very well get her hurt or killed someday.

There are people in this world to whom you’re not a human being. They don’t want to be respected by you. They don’t care about you–they’re not even really aware of you. They only care about the food you represent, the money that’s in your pocket. You’re not a person to them, but an obstacle. You’re just in the way of the reward, like a wrapper around a candy bar, and these people are willing to discard you just like that wrapper in order to get what they want.

If you don’t believe that, if you are one of the people who think that “everyone wants to be valued and respected”, you are deluding yourself, to put it mildly. There are literally hundreds of surveillance camera videos out on the Internet that show criminals injuring or killing people for the transgression of not handing over the money or opening the safe fast enough. For those of you who think that “if you give them what they want, they’ll go away”, there are almost as many videos out there of people getting hurt or killed after handing over the goods, simply because they’re now witnesses to a crime that allows for a lengthy jail term. Leaving you alive greatly increases the chance of getting caught, you see, and the extra ten years for shooting you don’t enter the thug’s mind. Besides, few people ever commit a crime expecting to get caught. . .


I don't give a good darn why the person decided they wanted to kill me or my family. I just care that they don't. If that means I have to put a bullet or two center mass, that is how it goes. When my life is on the line, the attacker's well being is secondary to my survival. IF I can walk away I do. IF I can completely avoid a situation before it becomes a situation I do. You pull a knife and try to stab me you will probably carry a couple of 147gr lead and copper souvenirs to the hospital.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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This type of problem would have never happened if the government had more control over the purchase and usage of knives.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Screwed
 


My answer to your question would be "B" - a real gun.

I was taught at a very young age to stick up for people that couldn't defend themselves or people that were being taken advantage of. Everyone should start doing this a little more often. Not look the other way or look at the ground and walk faster.

I was also taught not to draw a weapon unless you intended to use it. If you draw your weapon and they run away, so be it. Job done!



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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In my training during such an attack involving a weapon, there is no compromise. You open fire, period (keeping your surroundings in mind). Now, the problem is...these days if you were to do so you either end up in jail or lose everything in a lawsuit. What a sad country we live in.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Im crazy for thinking not everyone should be shot? That guns should only be a last resort?
~snip~


She was being repeatedly stabbed.

If that's not a "last resort" scenario, then I guess I don't know what one is.

Also, no one was shot, as is the case with the vast majority of the instances where handguns are deployed as defensive measures.

More often than not, once a gun enters into the mix, the bad guy has a sudden change of heart. Nothing like the possibility of imminent death to bring greater clarity to ones thoughts and actions.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
I wouldn't have asked him to drop the knife. In that situation you are there to defend, not, apprehend. How do you render aid to the woman if you have to keep her attacker under control?


If he would have shot and killed him they would probably got him for murder the way things are.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Meekbot2000
This type of problem would have never happened if the government had more control over the purchase and usage of knives.


That must be it! We have not given the government enough 'control' over knives. That has to be, hands down, the most stupid thing I have ever heard on these forums, and the people who starred you belong in straight-jackets.

We would never have to read such total and utter stupidity if the government had more control over our keyboards: that could be a solution come to think of it, at least for demonstrable idiots like yourself with less than 80 IQ.

Maybe we should all eat with plastic forks and knives in mattress-padded rooms, then nothing would ever be a problem, and government freaks like yourself could live without Ritalin. There are people out there that could kill you with a pencil, what is your proposal Einstein, that we fill out a form for the FBI at the stationery shop?
edit on 31-8-2012 by D377MC because: spelling and form



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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I applaud this man, finally someone with CCW and they don't use it as a license to kill. He should be held up as an example of what to do in a CCW class.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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I seen lots of people arguing about handguns versus Tazers... In this situation the armed person made the right decision and saved a life. I believe most of us do have a right to be armed. but there are many other possible situations where an untrained or uninformed person can make a fatal mistake.

Let's say you have a situation where you suddenly see two men in the street. One man has a bat and is covered in blood. Another man who is a little smaller is swinging a machette at him. you have a gun. What do you do? Obviously you have no idea who the "bad" guy is?

This is an extreme example but confrontations begin in all manner of forms and unless you know what the real situation is you could easily shoot an innocent person.

How about another example. one man is unarmed and covered in blood. another man is chasing after him with a machette. you tell the guy with the machette to stop but he charges at the other guy and you shoot him. Then later you find out the "unarmed" man had just brutally murdered the other guys wife and kids...

There are so many what ifs to every situation. Carrying a loaded gun brings along with it great responsiblity. I am not sure everyone can handle that responsibility.

I do believe that everyone without a significant criminal history should be allowed to own a gun and have it in their home and or to take shooting, hunting, fishing, camping etc... But everyone carrying loaded firearms when they are running to the dry cleaner, grocery store, etc.? I am not so sure it is a good idea.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by D377MC

Originally posted by Meekbot2000
This type of problem would have never happened if the government had more control over the purchase and usage of knives.


That must be it! We have not given the government enough 'control' over knives. That has to be, hands down, the most stupid thing I have ever heard on these forums, and the people who starred you belong in straight-jackets.

edit on 31-8-2012 by D377MC because: spelling and form


I am 99% certain the regulation of knives statement was a joke. All the anti-gun people crawl from the woodwork when presented with a story in which the gun deescalated a deadly situation, but nobody comes forth and demands that we go through a background check to buy a set of steak knives.

This scenario would warrant deadly force according to the Law of Armed Conflict. If it's good enough for a multitude of countries around the world, it should be good enough on the street. A threat can be countered with a proportional amount of return force. A non-deadly threat can be countered with non-deadly force (pepper spray, butt of a rifle to the chest, tazer, etc.). A deadly threat can be countered with deadly force. A knife is a deadly weapon, and a tazer or pepper spray is not a proportional amount of force.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 

I could take you with a knife, tasers aren't a quick answer.I wonder when he actually chose to draw.When I see the knife I shoot the bad man.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Six6Six
 


Keep trollin', trollin', trollin'


Stop a knife wielding maniac without a gun??? Should I use my own fists or should I get a broadsword?


Liberal Logic for the lose!



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 


Another Liberal Loser! He is actively stabbing a woman to death and you want me to TALK to him???

Gee, Mr. Stabby why are you so upset today. Perhaps you can put the knife down and talk about it???






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