US Preparing for a Post-Israel Middle East?

Originally posted by psyko4570
To the OP, a few questions.

Was the USA founded legally?

Was it 'legal' to slaughter millions of Native Americans in order to create this wonderful melting pot? (which I love dearly by the way)

Why is it OK for the USA to exist and continue to exist when it was built using blood of children and women to make the mortar used in 'her' foundation? (im not ok with it and it bothers me daily, but it is what it is) But not Israel. Kind of a double standard is it not?

An interesting take on what happened in the USA, but not exactly accurate. It is the same kind of Rhetoric that stirs the anti-zionists into a frenzy. It is so easy to sit in our house on the hill and chasten those beneath us and those before us- but be mindfull that history will not remember us fondly, either. God bless the USA and Israel

reply to post by TheOneElectric


OMG this is a new low for ATS,

So what are you going to do with all the people of Israel?

reply to post by ideasarebulletproof


There is plenty that can be done, last I heard many of these tribes still exist but they are not talked about or acknowledged. It is inconvenient to have them around and they are kicked under the rug and treated as sub humans. they are really treated by animals.


All nations break laws left and right currently... I bet the native americans had laws of having their lands taken by foreigners but the foreigners didn't acknowledge them or care..

The usa currently takes resources by force which usually requires the taking of land as well. I mean we really have no room to talk since we have done and continue to do the same dang thing. If we really want to make a change int he world how about our country knocks it off first and makes TRUE amends with the native americans.


why will that not happen?? because it is very inconvenient and hard to swallow. As i have repeatedly said... it is very convenient to say OH THAT HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO...... when those people still exist and are holed up in corners of the country only to hear people like you say OH THAT HAPPENDED A LONG TIME AGO IT DOES NOT MATTER.

If you really want to make a change let israel take care of its own affairs and work on getting the USA from continuing to do the same dang thing israel is doing taking land by force.

The reason why israel does not back down is for the same reasons the usa does not back down.

The same attitude you have towards the native americans is the same attitude israel has towards those arabs.
which is "yeah it sucks but oh welll"

As far as the comments for Israel being the only problem in the middle east,
Syrian army uses children as 'human shields':

Syrian army uses children as 'human shields': UN
Syrian army uses children as 'human shields': UN
United Nations, Jun 12, 2012 (AFP)

Syrian troops have tortured children, executed them and used children as young as eight as "human shields" during military raids against rebels, according to a UN report released today.

The United Nations branded the Syrian government as one of the worst offenders on its annual "list of shame" of conflict countries where children are killed, tortured and forced to fight.

Human rights groups estimate that about 1,200 children have died during the 15-month uprising against President Bashar al-Assad, whose brutal crackdown on Arab Spring-inspired protests has been widely condemned.
www.deccanherald.com...
"Rarely, have I seen such brutality against children as in Syria, where girls and boys are detained, tortured, executed, and used as human shields," Radhika Coomaraswamy, UN special representative for children in armed conflict, told AFP ahead of the report's release.

Originally posted by mc1km

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by mc1km

 

I do not see how this begs the question....

Well if you honestly believe that that bible quote refers to the current state of Israel I am not surprised.

No i am asking what that has to do with Iran claiming to be Israel?? simply because everyone is anti Iran???

Actually i feel there are more anti israel sentiments than anything else. I think what israel does is garbage and eventually everyone will turn on them which is actually (if you buy into the bible) what is supposed to happen.

Israel is corrupt and in direct rebellion against God. Denial of Christ was just the beginning. God is supposed to be the one to deal with them not other nations.

Since the belief in God continues to go down the drain eventually getting rid of Israel will seem to be the easiest route which is when Christ is supposed to return to straighten it all out.

When everyone decides israel is the problem we will see if the Bible is all hogwash or not.

I am putting my money on the Bible out of personal choice.

reply to post by votan


LOLOL there are no Native Americans alive today that lived through what happened to their ancestors, likewise, none of the Europeans are alive today who were alive when that happened.

But I bet you could find a Palestinian who was alive when their land was given to someone else by a group of countries obviously not representative of their own interests. Or maybe not, I don't think the Palestinians life span has been too long these days...

And that is the other difference between the two: Europeans didn't whine and complain until a big group of other countries decided they would give North America to them, they at least had the balls to steal it themselves, again, not a good thing, but a stark difference between the two.

All through history people have stolen other peoples land. That's just a fact and you can't change history (for the most part).

The only way to make right on what our ancestors did is to stop it from happening now to anybody else.

Yet that does not happen because Israel has bootlickers like you to make excuses for them.

ETA: OK, well I just read some more of your other posts and I guess it won't matter what I have to say, because you are a little crazy.

Good day Madam.

Wahhh wahhhhhh Israel is evil

down with Israel they are the source of all evil!!!

Yeah okay, your usual rambling about Israel being the source of trouble for anyone and everyone is not surprising, but how come the lot of you are jumping out of your seat because of a lame story by a semi popular journal site?

Just put your mouse over the 'Writers' tab in that site to see who the writers are.. lol.
Also, click on Franklin Lamb to see his other articles and his obvious bias and agenda.

Long story short - this really don't mean anything at all.
But if unsupported stories on a blog-like site is your view on reality, then by all means party on.
You Israel bashing bunch are out of touch with reality.

From the 'about' section:

Foreign Policy Journal is an online publication dedicated to providing critical analysis of U.S. foreign policy outside of the standard framework offered by political officials and the mainstream corporate media.

The goal of FPJ is to provide a valuable alternative source for news and insight into world affairs, to encourage citizen journalism, and to promote broader discussion of important global issues.

In the pursuit of the above goals, FPJ publishes articles from a wide array of viewpoints, and welcomes unsolicited submissions.

Anyone taking this seriously should have his head checked.

the middle east situation isnt about Israel, its about money and power, on both sides.

You know what? Good riddance.

It's annoying - and I'm speaking as a Gentile - watching Israel in the condition its been in for the 6 decades.

Jews should get one thing into their heads, an incontrovertible fact, a sad and depressing fact for all lovers of justice, but nevertheless, a fact: Gentiles hate Jews. To be more precise, since there are gentiles who are indifferent to Jews, and some who love all people, let me say it like this: the elites of Europe, the Christian elite, of both Catholic, Protestant and Eastern Orthodox stock, and the elite of Islam, HATE AND DESPISE JEWS! This is an utterly sick fact of reality that the OP has so venomously articulated: he very much longs for the day that Israel and it's 6 million Jews will be blown to smithereens. What other interpretation is there? What does a "post" Israel middle east entail? The extirpation of Israel. And how do you get rid of a nation like Israel, with a majority Zionist population, who would rather die in defense of their country against Islamic radicals than simply capitulate before an invidious plot against their right to nationhood??? Through war. And this, no doubt, is the situation astir in the middle east which sees Islamist governments taking hold of Egypt, and soon to be Syria, along with Israel's arch enemy, Iran.

You can say whatever you like. You can ignore the threat of Islamism - as if it didn't exist. Since taking such a position allows you to demonize Israel without acceding to the point that Islamism is a legitimate threat to not just Israel - but America in particular.

As for Palestinian nationalism? I find it difficult to overlook the 22 other Arab states in existence, which perfectly match the needs of the Palestinians. Of course, one can argue that Palestinian nationalism has grown since 1948. Fine, I concede to that. But I also reject it. I reject it because of the simple fact that post-'48, Palestinian strategists engineered the idea and concept of a "palestinian people" - and thus a sense of national identity - for the purpose of challenging the Jewish right to Israel..

It's akin to a woman marrying into a wealthy family - the father (her husband) dies - and she expects to get the bulk of the assets, despite the husband having some 10 odd children. In other words, the Jewish question - the theft of Jewish lands by the Romans, the alienation of Jews Christian and Islamic lands for a thousand plus years, is a longstanding injustice of tragic proportions. To equate the 50 year claim of the Palestinians for a nation state of their own to the 2000 year plight, subjugation and oppression of the Jews, a people who fulfill basic anthropological dicta like language (Hebrew), Religion (Judaism), History, and culture, is ridiculous.

There is hardly a discernible difference between Syrians, Jordanians and Palestinians. If truth be told - the Palestinians should be in Jordan with the other Palestinians - 75% of the population of Jordan being Palestinian - instead of importing foreign populations as they did in the 60's and 70's to help develop the economy.

So it appears Jews are on their own. The Jews - as Jews - are hated because they insist on their being different. Because their religious beliefs are so anathema to the gnostics who prefer a world without order, without moral, national, political and social distinctions. And so - this is the reason they are opposed and hated. Because they constitute the precise opposite of these people - and these people, not caring a lick for morality, for right and wrong, go about engineering massacres against them, as they care currently doing in their flippancy towards the Iran threat and the 'go about it alone' rhetoric towards Israel, as if Iran and Islamism werent the worlds problem.

Originally posted by brice
Isreal is our friend and we should support her,

With friends like this, we need no enemies.
www.haaretz.com...

The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.

Maybe this is the beginning Report: U.S. scales back joint military exercise with Israel

Time Magazine reports number of American troops in mid-October exercise to be cut by two-thirds, in what a Israeli official says is a message of mistrust conveyed by Washington.

"Basically what the Americans are saying is, ‘We don’t trust you,’” a senior Israeli military official told the magazine.

And I suppose this US abandonment of Israel truly sets the stage for a biblical drama:

Israel, alone, threatened by the nations surrounding it: newly elected Islamist Egypt, who is remilitarizing the Sinai in contravention of the peace treaty with Israel; Syria, who admits to having biological weapons - and threatening to use them against Israel, and Iran.

It's either this is it - that we are truly at the denouement of world civilization, where the victor determines the course the world will take and the loser subordinated, and eventually eviscerated, or geopolitical reality is just coming as close to biblical prophecy, and extra-canonical predictions in Rabbinic texts, such as the Midrash and Zohar, on purely coincidental grounds.

It's disheartening that this propaganda works so well, that this hatred of Jews - or rather, Judaism - fuels so much of the political agenda of the worlds elite. And what is especially hard, for me in any case, is the widespread ignorance of this fact: that people have no clue of what I'm talking about. And yet anyone trained in philosophy, philosophy of religion in particular, it should be abundantly clear how alone Judaism stands relative to the spiritual traditions of the world; that the Jews are different and 'separate' philosophically: that they are ostracized and hated for their theological beliefs, which challenges the views of the 'mystics' and metaphysicians who want to impress their doctrine of the indeterminate void onto the socio-economic fabric, in moral relativism, anarcho-socialism (I see communism as being the more likely government of choice) destruction of the family unit etc.

No view epitomizes this antimony better than the ancient Gnostics, who mythologized their hatred by regarding the Jewish God "demiurgus" - the false urge i.e the urge towards separation.. YHVH - or Jehovah, the Gnostics argued, is a false God only befitting the worship of an ignoramus - because He is a God of "being" - which is subordinate to, and transcended by, the state of 'non-being', which is the Father of Christianity. This squares with the Sufi, Taoist, Buddhist, and Hindu approach to spiritual meaning. The indeterminate, Wholly Other, beyond the conditions of created reality, and so in direct opposition to a God that commands a certain way of living - is the only "God"; in Christian thought, this God is theologized and invested with providential ability. In Sufism, this God - this same indeterminate state - determines itself in the Quran and the sayings of the prophet. In the East, it's detheologized: in Hinduism, it's mostly reduced to metaphysics, with cyclical periods of expansion and contraction; in Buddhism and Taoism, it is more secular, more atheistic....

People don't think anything of this religious stuff. And that's probably because they've been trained to see the world in purely materialistic, and not in metaphysical terms. But to the philosophical elite, it is clear that there is common agreement between the various civilizations of the world: only one group poses a difficulty: the Jews. There religion is iconoclastic. They separate themselves from gentiles, just as their religion seeks to discover rules of meaning in the minutiae of created existence; in logic, in determining right from wrong, in lifes many complex situations; in social reality, with nation states - symbols of separation within the created order...

To put it pithily. The Jews seek unity within the context of multiplicity, while Gentile religion seeks Unity in negation of multiplicity; the former unites the indeterminate with the determinate, while the latter seeks the indeterminate to stay so by not acknowledging determinate reality.

I don't see why we can't both get along - why the world cant be shared by both

Originally posted by brice

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by brice

 

In that case, read these words:

Rachel Corrie.
USS Liberty.

'Nuff said. Ain't no friends of mine.

So the Canadians (British) burned down the White House and you are still friends with them.... get over it already!
If you want friends in the Middle East there is not lots to choose from! I guess you might prefer The Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood?

I would prefer the Brotherhood over the Zionist monsters running Israel. Did you forget there was a war going on when the white house was burned down? We were not at war with Israel when they attacked the Liberty or murdered Rachel Corrie.

Get over it? Why don't you tell that to all the people that keep screaming about the holocaust to get over it.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by TheOneElectric

 

OMG this is a new low for ATS,

So what are you going to do with all the people of Israel?

Like Helen Thomas said they can pack their bags and go back to wherever they came from.

reply to post by AlittlePieceofMind

Netanyahu and Barak are warmongering NWO puppets. Instigating and making Israel out to be the enemy, when it's the leaders who are tied to the strings of their puppet master that we should worry about.

I had to star you for this right here. This explains it right here. This isn't about jews or messianic jewish christians. This is about certain people involved in certain secret societies out to destroy the remnants of those who believe in the Original Holy One IEUE or YHWH as some know Him as, for the sake of ruling this world with an iron fist.

For example, those who exchange the Light of God for the light of Freemasonry and it's luciferian grandmasters.

reply to post by buster2010


Oh that's a very nice comment of hers to make.

Where did they come from? Many came from Europe - from the place of their torments. They were chased from Vichy France to Antonescu's Romania - many times by their own initiative without Nazi prodding. This is where they come from.

And as for the Sephardim - they lived under the oppressive thumb of shari'a law.

# Helen Thomas and her evil, vile serpent lies. That woman like the rest of those repulsive moral relativists know they're lying but for moira - necessity - they do it anyways, with full conviction, because it has to be done.

Just as Hitler and the Nazis knew that the Jewish problem HAD TO BE SOLVED.

If you people even had a clue how evil what's being done to Israel is - if you had any sense of the machinations and collusion being made against Israel. And yet it doesn't ever pop into your minds, the most obvious fact: why are the Jews oppressed in seemingly every epoch? In Greco-Roman days, under Antiochus IV, in Roman times, in Byzantium times, in the middle ages in Christian Europe, during the grueling crusades, inquisitions of the catholic church, the persecutions in protestant Europe, the brutal massacres of the Cossaks, the pogroms of the Tzars, and of course, the nefarious lies spread about them - this fully shows the conscious evil intent made against them, by Catholic theologians - of all people! Then the Holocaust 70 years ago. Now, fast worward, and lo and behold - the Jews again are being attacked, this time in its most clandestine and politically infused condition: as a nation state, one of the world. People think - or like to think - that criticism of Israel isn't criticism of Jews. But that is precisely what it is in effect. The iniquity and unjustness of the attacks of the Greco and Roman governors, Christian Theologians, the Tzars, the Nazis, and so on, which seemed so utterly convincing to the peoples of those eras - is merely being replicated today in a much more subtle and impersonal sense: but the effect is ultimately the same: the humiliation of the Jew - or the Jewish nation, the persecution of the Jew (or the Jewish nation), and ultimately, the extermination of the Jew (or the Jewish nation).

To come to this perfectly logical conclusion, too many of you are unable to do. You are too emotionally compromised at the state you're in.

It takes heart - and a deep sense to know whats going on is wrong.

The false beginnings of palestinian nationalism, the fact that the Arabs are wholly responsible for the current predicament of the refugees, and the vitriolic media in Gaza and the territories - all these things are remarkably ignored. Amazing! The power and effect of repetition knows no bounds! All this could dismantle Palestinian claims.

Everyone who knows anything knows the Arabs are being unfair and contemptuous in their relationship with the Jews. Thus - if were to rely on practical political doctrine - American disattachment from Israel would only be prudent because it ameliorates their relationship with Arab countries: but in NO WAY JUSTIFIES OR SHOWS the Arabs to be in the moral right. They are completely in the wrong. And any wrong committed by Israel is in trying to keep up, trying to fend of their ceaseless abuses against them.

Israel is going to end up being thrown under the bus.

Why?

it's the only way we can deal with Islam. It's become all too obvious that our "revolutions" in the region are doing nothing for democracy and everything to create an islamic superstate. Worst possible outcomes are coming true.

If America goes in fighting we have to concern ourselves with at the least decades of terror attack attempts, the possibility we could end up in WW3 against Russia and China and maybe even the end of the world.

The far easier method will work out to be throw Israel Under the Bus knowing full well emboldened many local nations will attack.

When this happens and Israel is forced to use Nukes the ME problem will be gone, reprisals that come will not be against the United States having backed away from the situation, in a "best" case scenario for the USA it goes as far as Russia taking a warhead or two if it chooses to strike Israel, China is also an Ally of Pakistan before said and done we could sit back and watch our enemies all either go away or entirely or be seriously weakened. But definitely the ME would be a parking lot.

Kind of always felt this way

I don't think we gave Israel Nukes for any other reason nor put the Jews back there but to turn our backs on them and let them "handle" the middle east situation.

It was not a very hard prediction to make after WW2 that one day that region and religion could be a serious threat to the West, so they built in a time bomb

reply to post by TheOneElectric

well finally they took the advice of Khamenei

Now I would like to give a benevolent piece of advice to American politicians who always stood up to defend and support the Zionist regime. So far, this regime has created countless problems for you. It has presented a hateful image of you to the regional peoples, and it has made you look like an accomplice in the crimes of the usurping Zionists. The material and moral costs borne by the American government and people on account of this are staggering, and if this continues, the costs might become even heavier in the future. Think about the Islamic Republic's proposal of a referendum and with a courageous decision, rescue yourselves from the current impossible situation. Undoubtedly, the people of the region and all free-thinkers across the world will welcome this measure english.khamenei.ir...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

however I can not accept that Jesus is Yahweh. but I praise the below statement.

For example, those who exchange the Light of God for the light of Freemasonry and it's luciferian grandmasters.

this is a truth. one group are misusing monotheistic religions to shape their anti_christic NWO and others are denying religions by the excuse of behaviour of the first group to shape that satanic NWO. maybe they do not know what they are doing. but this is how Lucifer deceives human ! even there are many of them among clerics !!

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Wahhh wahhhhhh Israel is evil

down with Israel they are the source of all evil!!!

Yeah okay, your usual rambling about Israel being the source of trouble for anyone and everyone is not surprising, but how come the lot of you are jumping out of your seat because of a lame story by a semi popular journal site?

Just put your mouse over the 'Writers' tab in that site to see who the writers are.. lol.
Also, click on Franklin Lamb to see his other articles and his obvious bias and agenda.

Long story short - this really don't mean anything at all.
But if unsupported stories on a blog-like site is your view on reality, then by all means party on.
You Israel bashing bunch are out of touch with reality.

From the 'about' section:

Foreign Policy Journal is an online publication dedicated to providing critical analysis of U.S. foreign policy outside of the standard framework offered by political officials and the mainstream corporate media.

The goal of FPJ is to provide a valuable alternative source for news and insight into world affairs, to encourage citizen journalism, and to promote broader discussion of important global issues.

In the pursuit of the above goals, FPJ publishes articles from a wide array of viewpoints, and welcomes unsolicited submissions.

Anyone taking this seriously should have his head checked.

edit on 31-8-2012 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

Yes, seriously taking any of this seriously should probably seriously do some serious introspection. Ha!