Khamenei comments about the peace in Palestine

About Palestine

The summary of this matter is that on the basis of a horrible Western plot and under the direction of England in the 1940s, an independent country with a clear historical identity called “Palestine” has been taken away from its people through the use of weapons, killings and deception and has been given to a group of people the majority of whom are immigrants from European countries. This great usurpation – which at the outset was accompanied with massacres of defenseless people in towns and villages and their expulsion from their homes and homeland to bordering countries – has continued for more than six decades with similar crimes and continues to this very day. This is one of the most important issues of the human community.

Political and military leaders of the usurping Zionist regime have not avoided any crimes during this time: from killing the people, destroying their homes and farms and arresting and torturing men and women and even their children, to humiliating and insulting that nation and trying to destroy it in order to digest it in the haraam-eating stomach of the Zionist regime, to attacking their refugee camps in Palestine itself and in the neighboring countries where millions of refugees live. Such names as Sabra and Shatila, Qana and Deir Yasin have been etched in the history of our region with the blood of the oppressed Palestinian people.

Even now after 65 years the same kind of crimes marks the treatment of Palestinians remaining in the occupied territories by the ferocious Zionist wolves. They commit new crimes one after the other and create new crises for the region. Hardly a day passes without reports of murder, injury and arrests of the youth who stand up to defend their homeland and their honor and protest against the destruction of their farms and homes. The Zionist regime, which has carried out assassinations and caused conflicts and crimes for decades by waging disastrous wars, killing people, occupying Arab territories and organizing state terror in the region and in the world, labels the Palestinian people as “terrorists”, the people who have stood up to fight for their rights. And the media networks which belong to Zionism and many of the Western and mercenary media repeat this great lie in violation of ethical values and journalistic commitment, and the political leaders who claim to defend human rights have closed their eyes on all these crimes and support that criminal regime shamelessly and boldly and assume the role of their advocates.

Our standpoint is that Palestine belongs to the Palestinians and that continuing its occupation is a great and intolerable injustice and a major threat to global peace and security. All solutions suggested and followed up by the Westerners and their affiliates for “resolving the problem of Palestine” have been wrong and unsuccessful, and it will remain so in the future. We have put forth a just and entirely democratic solution.

Solution for Palestine

All the Palestinians – both the current citizens of Palestine and those who have been forced to immigrate to other countries but have preserved their Palestinian identity, including Muslims, Christians and Jews – should take part in a carefully supervised and confidence-building referendum and chose the political system of their country, and all the Palestinians who have suffered from years of exile should return to their country and take part in this referendum and then help draft a Constitution and hold elections. Peace will then be established.

source


Isn't this a good solution ?

IMO , those who have been refugee in Palestine will get a chance to decide about their own future. They will choose their government , constitution and dominion.

All the problems start as other governments want to decide for other nations. This is not what democracy or human right tells them to do.

Isn't this how true democracy works?

But that means that Israel should surrender to the votes of the people. Will Israel do that ?


At last, I thank the moderator who gave my thread back for reconsideration. for the moderator

reply to post by mideast


Palestine was never a country, it wasn't stolen anymore than anyone elses land was stolen in colonial times. The land belonged to England, they gave it to the jews, so they could havve their own land, every other religion on earth has a country to call home, except the jews. After the holocaust, the west decided the beast answer was to give jews a land to call home and make their own. Isreal is the result of a soverign nation donating soverign territory to a race/religion? In need.

Palestine was never a nation, their land was usurped by forced, just like the palestinians usurped it from the jews through force. Just like every nation on earth did the same, many times throughout history, until our modern more "stable" time in which country lines seldom change.

Muslims have many countries on earth, let the muslims live in one of them, christians have many countries also, let the christians live in one of them.

The jews havve only one nation on this entire planet, what is wrong with them keeping it? It is a little onesided to think that every major religion on earth save one deserves to have a land to call home.

ETA- I am not religious, I think all religion is wrong, as it only helps breed ignorance, stifles mental growth, and sets a wedge between anyone not in your religion and those who are. They are all obviously (IMHO) made up stories used by prehistory tyrants to hold power over the ignorant easily manipulted masses of starving diseased peoples looking for any hope to escaping their terible life. For example, life sucks bad, but if you do as your told you will get to live in "paradise" for eternity....yes, yes...just follow the lords requirements. The lord has made this man king, you may not deny his right to rule...I know he is a tyrant and tortures and kills and starves his people, but disobeying god is a sin and sin removes you from "heaven".

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
Palestine was never a country, it wasn't stolen anymore than anyone elses land was stolen in colonial times.

A lot of land was stolen during colonial times. In fact, that is probably exactly the definition of "Colonial times", i.e. a time when certain countries in Europe went around basically just stealing land.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
The land belonged to England, they gave it to...

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
..every other religion on earth has a country to call home, except the jews.

Actually, no, every religion on earth doesn't. In fact, very few do.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
After the holocaust, the west decided the beast answer was to give jews a land to call home and make their own.

Which is a clear case of battling racism/bigotry with more racism/bigotry. The "White man up high" deciding that the jews are too much trouble, and they don't like them very much, so why not stash them away in this corner over here where we don't have to look at them constantly? You know, Americans did the same thing with african slaves by sending them off to Liberia, because they believed that blacks and whites should not mix, and preferred sending them away to actually freeing the slaves.

Despite a long and depressing history of war and violence as a result of this act, Liberia is actually doing better now, and got to it faster than Israel seems to be. Originally the Americo-Liberian immigrants didn't allow any interaction with the actual locals native to that area, refused them citizenship, culminating in a series of coups and counter-coups involving the natives indigenous to the area, and the immigrants, with reprehensible violence and bloodshed on both sides.
Finally in 2005, the most free and fair elections in the history of Liberia were held, and a native (but with german ancestry) who wasn't Americo-Liberian, but studied from Harvard, was elected president. She was also the first female president in Africa.

I went into great detail about Liberia, because I believe it provides an interesting parallel to the current situation in Israel, with an interesting take on what direction the future of Israel could go.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
Isreal is the result of a soverign nation donating soverign territory to a race/religion? In need.

I do not believe belonging to a race or religion gives you the right to your own country based on that race or religion. I believe such a policy is racist and divisive. If such a policy was carried out to the fullest extent, with every single ethnic/ethnoreligious group in the world getting their own country, we'd run out of land pretty fast, and countries would be the size of football fields.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
Muslims have many countries on earth, let the muslims live in one of them, christians have many countries also, let the christians live in one of them.

That sort of reasoning is...well, extremely generalising to put it as politely as I can. You think the entirety of the muslim faith on earth is all one big homogenous blob? Again, people don't self-identify completely and exclusively by what their religion or race is. Do you think that if I picked you up and plopped you down in Armenia and said "You're all caucasian, go and live together!", it'd jive? Or if I picked up a christian from the US and put them in South Africa and said "You're all Christian, go and live together!"?
Why should someone who lived in a place (and had ancestors living in that place) have to get up and leave to make room for someone else, and then be told "Go and live in some other muslim country! All you muslims are all the same, after all!"?

Here is a chart about Khamenei's speech at NAM.



Hope it's useful.

reply to post by inverslyproportional

The land belonged to England, they gave it to the jews,

The only land that belongs to England is their own land.
They don't own any part of the middle east to decide who they can "give" it to.

After the holocaust, the west decided the beast answer was to give jews a land to call home and make their own.

If the jews experienced the holocaust in Europe, by Europeans, then make the Europeans pay for it.
Why make the Arabs living elsewhere pay for somebody elses crimes against the Jews.

Double post.

Untill mid-20th century there was no Palestinian nation. This is a historical fact.
Under Turkey there was no Palestine - area of British mandate of Palestine was devided in several districts. Nobody protested. There was no Palestinian liberation organisation. There was no poet or writer that i know of who stated that he is Palestinian during the period area was under Turkish rule.
Nothing.
Even in 1948 war there was not a single Arab army with a word "Palestine" in its name. Holy war army, Arab liberation army. And this is the point.
It was not and is not about Palestine or Palestinians, it is about removing the Jewish state from the lands that Khamenai considers as Muslim lands.
As for voting on the issue of the state - i have no problems with Palestinian citizens voting about future of their state and Israeli citizens voting about future of their state. Khamenai clearly has problem with the later.
Good thing he allows Iranian citizens that fled from Iran after the revolution (5 million, no less) to vote in Iranian election - oh wait, he doesn't allow that. Pillar of democracy, he is.

While I disagree with Zeroknowledge about the lack of existence of a Palestinian identity (there is an identity, with accents, foods, dances, etc. that is variant from the surrounding arabs, much like Egyptian arabs are different from Saudi Arabians who are different from Tunisian Arabs), and the supposed "religious" character of the struggle from the muslim side (while the muslim Palestinians DO invoke God as part of their struggle, as would every religious nation, it is the other side that has these groups that actually USE their religion and scripture as justification for owning the land), I agree with his solution.

While I consider the creation of Israel to be a mistake, there are Israelis there now, jewish people who immigrated 2-3 generations ago, and are pretty entrenched there. You can't realistically ignore them or ask that they be "sent back", any more than the other side ask that the Palestinians just cease to exist.
Have everyone vote, with no caveats and no restrictions and no exclusions, and let them decide their future. Considering the nature of the feelings each side may have for the other, and the potential for violence and exploiting, perhaps an initial phase could feature a Triad of rulers, one Jewish, one Muslim and one some other group (sorta like what they had/ve in Lebanon, but with each party having properly equal influemce).

PS: I can't edit my post because it is too late now, just in case someone tells me "The Jewish people didn't just come 2 or 3 generations ago, there has been a jewish presence since times immemorial!!111!", I'd just like to clarify, I was talking about the jews that IMMIGRATED.

reply to post by mideast


Very very good thread! S&F for opening such a discussion!

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Palestine was never a nation, their land was usurped by forced, just like the palestinians usurped it from the jews through force. Just like every nation on earth did the same, many times throughout history, until our modern more "stable" time in which country lines seldom change.

Indeed. People seldom forget the jews originally owned that land before Hadrian Caesar turned it over to the arabs after the second failed revolt around 135 A.D. and renamed Israel into Syriac Palestina to ad insult to an already exterminated and enslaved nation.

They cry they were there first because they came from the Philistines? Philistines came from the island of Crete after the Santorini volcano exploded around 1450 B.C., they're the displaced Minoan peoples (Sea Peoples) whose chief god was Dagon a.k.a. Posiedon.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Indeed. People seldom forget the jews originally owned that land before Hadrian Caesar turned it over to the arabs after the second failed revolt around 135 A.D. and renamed Israel into Syriac Palestina to ad insult to an already exterminated and enslaved nation.

Hmmm... I thought the Canaanites owned that land originally.... before the Israelites genocided them and took over the land of the Canaaanites.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Salam

I advice one thing.

You have talked about your true agenda in another thread.

It was about letting some jew man arrive.

I forgot his name.

Anyway , history is a good source to rely on.

But the fact is which period are you going to look at?

I can bring you historical facts that Persia owned Israel once.

I should add that the whole issue with Israel is not that they took some ones lands.

It is that they won't stop getting land.

They are doing any dirt job to get their job done.

Look at Syria ?

Who's helping the rebels ?

Who is in-stabilizing middle eastern countries.

Who supports fanatic groups ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

news.nationalgeographic.com... ml

Neanderthals were there first.

Please send a letter to Khomeini in return telling him that there will be peace when The his people pay for the cloning of already existing neanderthal dna and a substantial population is allowed to return set up it's own form of govt and settle the lands.

reply to post by babloyi

While I disagree with Zeroknowledge about the lack of existence of a Palestinian identity (there is an identity, with accents, foods, dances, etc. that is variant from the surrounding arabs, much like Egyptian arabs are different from Saudi Arabians who are different from Tunisian Arabs),

I will be glad to know about any distinctively Palestinian dish ,dance or accent that you are aware of. Not a scholar of Palestinian or Arab culture - but worked with dozens of Israeli Arabs and never noticed them eating something that is not eaten eveywhere else in the region or dressing unusual. And this is now, when there clearly is a distinct Palestinian identity.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Indeed. People seldom forget the jews originally owned that land before Hadrian Caesar turned it over to the arabs after the second failed revolt around 135 A.D. and renamed Israel into Syriac Palestina to ad insult to an already exterminated and enslaved nation.

Hmmm... I thought the Canaanites owned that land originally.... before the Israelites genocided them and took over the land of the Canaaanites.

Canaanites did once exist there, and there were people living there even before them, that's how things were done in those times. Conquering of land and bequeathing it to others didn't end until the 20th century. Theyre just taking back what was once theirs, what Rome and later the muslim took from them and soon the temple will be rebuilt. Israel's sovereignty won't be complete until the temple stands. This is about undoing what Rome did 2000 years ago.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Of course there is nothing exclusively and solely done by Palestinian arabs that is NEVER used anywhere else in the arab world or adopted. There is nothing like that anywhere in the Arab world (or anywhere in the world anymore). You find Egyptian cuisine in Lebanon, you find the Lebanese style of dancing in Egypt, you find Moroccon dishes in the UAE, etc. The point is that these things originated in those places.
It amazes me how people go on about how arabs are trying to retroactively extinguish the presence of the Jews in Palestine (usually as a response to "Why is there this unbridled immigration by people who have no real connection to this land beyond a myth in a book, and ancestry from hundreds of generations ago?"), when they themselves are trying to disappear the Palestinians and totally negate their right to their land.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Canaanites did once exist there, and there were people living there even before them, that's how things were done in those times. Conquering of land and bequeathing it to others didn't end until the 20th century. Theyre just taking back what was once theirs, what Rome and later the muslim took from them and soon the temple will be rebuilt. Israel's sovereignty won't be complete until the temple stands. This is about undoing what Rome did 2000 years ago.

What do you mean "those times"? How far back in history do you want to go?

You claim that "the jews originally owned that land". But the truth is that the Canaanites originally owned that land.

So.... the jews never "owned that land" until they TOOK IT from the Canaanites.

There is no reason to start history at the point of Israelites taking over that land. You cant claim jews held that land before the Arabs/Palestinians.... because the Israelites themselves took it over from somebody else.

P.S - Please understand that I am not taking sides with the Canaanites. You might be surprised... but even the Koran confirms that God gave that land to the Israelites. The problem began when they acted against their own prophets.

I don't know if it's really appropriate or relevant but what I find incredibly sad about the whole Israel / Palestine arguement is that recent genetic studies have shown that essentially the vast majority of Jews and Palestinians share the same common ancestry.

A classic example of how divisive religion can be.

Perhaps if they concentrated more on what they have in common rather than that which seperates they'd be able to work out a way forward together.

Naive and simplistic?
Yes probably, but true nonetheless.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You claim that "the jews originally owned that land". But the truth is that the Canaanites originally owned that land.

So.... the jews never "owned that land" until they TOOK IT from the Canaanites.

There is no reason to start history at the point of Israelites taking over that land. You cant claim jews held that land before the Arabs/Palestinians.... because the Israelites themselves took it over from somebody else.

P.S - Please understand that I am not taking sides with the Canaanites. You might be surprised... but even the Koran confirms that God gave that land to the Israelites. The problem began when they acted against their own prophets

The truth is no one owned the land. Even today no one really "owns" their land they just pay rent for it, what we call taxes is the rent. Yes God gave them the land, but it was the people holding power (religious sects like pharisees, sadducees etc.) and the priesthood whom many prophets were part of, prophesying by Ba'al (or telling outright lies instead of what God commanded). We see the same story being played all through the ages, most would follow some chunk of wood or a fallen angel, and a few would remain loyal to God. The land covenant was never broken, God doesn't break his covenants but he does punish those who do which is what all the exiles over the last 3500 years was about. The Israelites were rooted to the land and they held the land more sacred than the One who gave it to them and instead of doing their job (priests of nations), they clung to the land and the gentile peoples perished. Ofcourse God knew they would do this beforehand, which is the entire point for the coming of Christ.

Ofcourse this is the "religious" aspect of the deal, the secular world refuses to recognize this because they don't believe so it doesn't wash with the rest of the world. What the palestinians need to do is step back and let history play itself out because everything that is happening is supposed to. Events are being locked into place that will bring Jesus back to this world and it will be fulfilled no matter how many people try to stand in the way. The script was written at the beginning of the world and we are the actors playing our parts.