IAEA: Iran doubles underground nuclear capacity

IAEA: Iran doubles underground nuclear capacity

www.reuters.com

Iran has doubled the number of uranium enrichment machines it has in an underground bunker, the U.N. nuclear watchdog said on Thursday, showing Tehran's defiance towards Western pressure to stop its atomic work and the threat of Israeli attack.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Was this information saved to be released during the League of Nations meet in Tehran today, with UN's President?

Are the UN inspectors lying about this new find? I personally don't believe this would be the case, because there are too many people involved and for this to be one of the more heavily fortified nuclear plants then it would guess if they were going up production anywhere that it would be here.



www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Seriously who cares anymore? I don't care what Iran has or has not got, they haven't attacked anybody ever. Yet the world police, USA, the ONLY nation to EVER use Nuclear weapons in ANGER has the gall to dictate to anybody who should or should not have these weapons. Please, I'm not anti American I'm anti US Government.
Idiots.

looks like 'team America' will be going in there then.
f### yeh

In another thread someone was going on about how UN inspectors said they found no evidence of anything wrong on the part of Iran .. and I responded by pointing out that Iran has not allowed the inspectors in all of the areas they wished to inspect ( and suspect )... Basically it's like you kill someone and hide them in your closet, then you allow your house to be searched everywhere EXCEPT the closet.. they can say they found no evidence, but it doesn't mean you're not hiding something ..

There is no need for Iran to have enrichment capabilities... they claim it's for peaceful purposes but Russia had offered them enriched uranium that would suit their needs .. they rejected it .. they knew full well that the UN and even their own allies would react badly to that choice.. it's as if they are taunting ..

Unfortunately the UN has no teeth however.. they just like to issue warnings and sternly worded letters .. Iran knows that ...

Originally posted by diddy1234
looks like 'team America' will be going in there then.
f### yeh

edit on 30/8/2012 by diddy1234 because: (no reason given)

Under what grounds? Iran is allowed nuclear technology by the NPT which they signed. And America is actually breaking it by not helping them to develop it. If Iran wants to mass produce reactors they have every right.

Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons

The NPT is often seen to be based on a central bargain: “the NPT non-nuclear-weapon states agree never to acquire nuclear weapons and the NPT nuclear-weapon states in exchange agree to share the benefits of peaceful nuclear technology and to pursue nuclear disarmament aimed at the ultimate elimination of their nuclear arsenals”

Originally posted by miniatus
and I responded by pointing out that Iran has not allowed the inspectors in all of the areas they wished to inspect ( and suspect )... Basically it's like you kill someone and hide them in your closet, then you allow your house to be searched everywhere EXCEPT the closet.. they can say they found no evidence, but it doesn't mean you're not hiding something ..

Iran doesn't have to let IAEA inspectors into military installations like Parchin. They didn't sign the additional protocol regarding those areas. And if I was Iran, I wouldn't allow anybody in there as well. Why would Iran expose its military secrets and capabilities to the IAEA or its enemies?

Originally posted by miniatusThere is no need for Iran to have enrichment capabilities... they claim it's for peaceful purposes

It is certainly not you, who has to or can decide, whether they need it or not. They signed the NPT and allow inspectors to monitor all of their activities according to the NPT. Therefore they can enrich up to 19,75% as much as they want to.

Originally posted by miniatusUnfortunately the UN has no teeth however.. they just like to issue warnings and sternly worded letters .. Iran knows that ...

They can't do anything, because Iran doesn't violate any international laws or regulations.

it was a flippant remark due to the fact that the American government likes to wade into any country that doesn't do as America says.

also I think the American government wants to do some payback for the American embassy hostage issue.

reply to post by CALGARIAN


And they know this because they have been allowed access?

Or do they have xray vision that can see like superman?

Originally posted by diddy1234
it was a flippant remark due to the fact that the American government likes to wade into any country that doesn't do as America says.

also I think the American government wants to do some payback for the American embassy hostage issue.

Remember the Iranian civilian plane the US shot down? I doubt it is because of the hostage crisis.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
reply to post by CALGARIAN

 

And they know this because they have been allowed access?

Or do they have xray vision that can see like superman?

No.

They know it because god told Bush in a rose garden

reply to post by buster2010

The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, commonly known as the Non-Proliferation Treaty or NPT, is a landmark international treaty whose objective is to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons technology, to promote cooperation in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy and to further the goal of achieving nuclear disarmament and general and complete disarmament.

Key articles

Article I: Each nuclear-weapons state (NWS) undertakes not to transfer, to any recipient, nuclear weapons, or other nuclear explosive devices, and not to assist any non-nuclear weapon state to manufacture or acquire such weapons or devices.

Article II: Each non-NWS party undertakes not to receive, from any source, nuclear weapons, or other nuclear explosive devices; not to manufacture or acquire such weapons or devices; and not to receive any assistance in their manufacture.

Article III: Each non-NWS party undertakes to conclude an agreement with the IAEA for the application of its safeguards to all nuclear material in all of the state's peaceful nuclear activities and to prevent diversion of such material to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.

Article IV:

1. Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes without discrimination and in conformity with Articles I and II of this Treaty.

2. All the Parties to the Treaty undertake to facilitate, and have the right to participate in, the fullest possible exchange of equipment, materials and scientific and technological information for the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Parties to the Treaty in a position to do so shall also co-operate in contributing alone or together with other States or international organizations to the further development of the applications of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, especially in the territories of non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty, with due consideration for the needs of the developing areas of the world.

Article VI: The states undertake to pursue "negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament", and towards a "Treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control".

Article X. Establishes the right to withdraw from the Treaty giving 3 months' notice. It also establishes the duration of the Treaty (25 years before 1995 Extension Initiative).

From your own source.

Wait, the best part comes now:

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy

 

What's your proof of what you are saying is true. Wikipedia

Can you say "ouch"?

Edited to add:

Nobody is prohibiting Iran from pursuing nuclear energy. That's what the whole Treaty is about, giving access to nuclear energy and technology for peaceful purposes.

Iran hasn't made anything hostile or shown to possess anything illegal in relation to the NPT and IAEA agreements, but the fact that they are hiding information, the fact they have had ties with North Korea in the past (North Korea gave them a nuclear physics software that is used in simulations, and it can be used to study the production of nuclear weapons), and the fact they block access to important facilities that raise suspicions, does make their case hard to defend.

I don't agree with military action against Iran, especially in our times. Thing's are to hot for any military skirmish to happen, without causing massive consequences for the whole world, both economically and politically.

If you are going to buy a gun, and you want to do it legally,you must have a license. One of the requirements to have that license is to disclose your criminal record, because you don't want criminals to walk around with guns.

Using that analogy, what Iran does is like preventing the authorities who grant the license to verify their criminal record or true intention.

If Iran wants peaceful resolutions and access to free nuclear energy, they must raise to the occasion and be transparent about it.

Saying things like "the U.N. is a dictatorship" doesn't help.

For those who wish to read more on the nuclear software I referred in my previous post, here is the article that I read some time ago mentioning it:

North Korea supplied nuclear software to Iran (reuters)

North Korea has intensified its cooperation with Iran this year and supplied it with a computer program that could help the Islamic Republic build nuclear weapons, a German newspaper reported on Wednesday, citing western intelligence sources.

Later in that reuters article it states the following:

The Sueddeutsche said the program, called Monte Carlo N-Particle Extended, or MCNPX 2.6.0., was used widely for civilian purposes but is subject to strict export controls because it can also be used to develop atomic weapons.

It is unclear how North Korea got hold of the software.

I couldn't find any real credible or easy-to-read source for the nature of the program, but you can find those with google search.

The Software is from the U.S. ...

If Iran is being peaceful, why don't they simply ask the U.S. for the software and use North Korea (of all countries) to get it?

This is the kind of suspicious behavior many people have doubts with...

Actually, this is old news...and was announcd by Iran a few weeks ago.....
they enlarges the Fordow underground nuclear enrichment facility.....Its under 265 ft of solid granite i hear......
Bomb the # out of that boys! good luck!
We have to admit Iran to the club sooner or later as they have the aces right now, and short of a large war, they will have their bomba soon.....

Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy
Iran hasn't made anything hostile or shown to possess anything illegal in relation to the NPT and IAEA agreements, but the fact that they are hiding information,..., and the fact they block access to important facilities that raise suspicions, does make their case hard to defend.

What information are they hiding and which facilities are they blocking?

Please get ALL your facts straight. The installations Iran doesn't allow access to are MILITARY installations. There is a additional protocol, which was not ratified by Iran, so they don't have to grant access to those.

reply to post by waveydavey


PLUEEEEZE!

You have studyed history have you?

reply to post by ALF88

What information are they hiding and which facilities are they blocking?

They have hidden their cooperation with North Korea, like I already stated in this thread, as an example.

IAEA urges Iran for access to nuclear site

The head of the UN nuclear agency called on Iran yesterday to sign a deal giving greater transparency on its nuclear drive and announced that new talks with Tehran would be held this week.

Further down:

“Iran is not providing the necessary cooperation to enable the agency to provide credible assurance about the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran, and therefore to conclude that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities,” he told the board of governors. He also urged Iran “to provide access to the Parchin site,” where the IAEA believes suspicious testing has been carried out.

After a visit to Tehran on May 21, where he met Iran’s chief nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili, Amano had said an accord could be signed “quite soon,” but there is still no sign of any deal two weeks on.

I do agree that Iran isn't forced to disclose any military technology to outsiders.

But that's what the IAEA is exactly for. A peaceful organization that studies and analyzes any case (nation, if you prefer) and makes a respected assessment of how a nuclear program is being developed.

The same way you can go to a lawyer and ask for advice in legal matters, and the lawyer can't disclose that information to anybody else if it compromises or hurts you, Iran can negotiate with the IAEA and show them what they need to check out (radiation levels, evidence of nuclear weapons development) without exposing sensitive information.

I'm not saying Iran is developing nuclear weapons in that facility, or any other. But there is reason to be suspicious when Iran is blocking any attempt to see certain key places. There might be unbased, and false for all we know.

But if Iran wants to walk out of this with their head in one piece, I think the most sane and reasonable thing to do is to work something out that suits all people involved, them and the U.N./IAEA.

I also believe Israel should be kept away from those negotiations, in order to show transparency from the IAEA. But still, the P5+1 method of meeting was the best, in my opinion. You had major world powers and experts in nuclear technology (both peaceful and military) looking into the issue.

Those failed, more than once.

Please get ALL your facts straight.

I don't use anything other than facts.

The installations Iran doesn't allow access to are MILITARY installations.

That's exactly why they should allow access. The problem with Iran - again - is with the possibility of developing nukes, not energy.

I'm pretty sure there is a peaceful way to solve this. Maybe allow access but cover sensitive information? If Iran has guns and weapons there they don't want to be studied, fine... The IAEA knows what to look for, allow access to the facility, allow them to do their measurements, but cover (not hide) anything you don't want eyes on.

Iran can be beside them while they do this...

As much as I see the points people make in favor of Iran, they aren't helping them-selfs at all.

There is a additional protocol, which was not ratified by Iran, so they don't have to grant access to those.

You ever wondered how the roads would be like, if nobody had agreed to follow the rectifications of the road laws? Like the invention of red-lights.

Imagine if someone decides they won't obey to those rectifications (A.K.A. corrections), and do as they wish...

I know I'm not being direct or factual, but I think you can see my point. And like I stated previously in my first post in this thread, Iran has the right to abandon the NPT, they just need to warn about it 3 months prior to do it...

Good for Iran. I hope they develop nuclear weapons soon, then Israel can stop bitching to the US to launch an attack.

reply to post by TDawgRex

PLUEEEEZE! You have studyed history have you?

What are you getting at?
Its 'Studied' by the way.

Only two nuclear weapons have been used in the course of warfare, both by the United States near the end of World War II. On 6 August 1945, a uranium gun-type fission bomb code-named "Little Boy" was detonated over the Japanese city of Hiroshima. Three days later, on 9 August, a plutonium implosion-type fission bomb code-named "Fat Man" was exploded over Nagasaki, Japan. These two bombings resulted in the deaths of approximately 200,000 Japanese people—mostly civilians—from acute injuries sustained from the explosions.[3] The role of the bombings in Japan's surrender, and their ethical status, remain the subject of scholarly and popular debate.

Source

I think that you would have to go back a good few hundred years also to find a country that was invaded by Iran

Iran

How many countries do you suppose the USA has invaded in the last 100 years? Invaded, oops sorry i meant to say 'Liberated'.

If someone prodded you with a stick long enough how long would it take for you to hit back?

Originally posted by waveydavey
Seriously who cares anymore? I don't care what Iran has or has not got, they haven't attacked anybody ever.

Incorrect - Iran supports Hamas / Hezzbullah who attack Israel. Secondly if you research Iran going way back you will find they have attacked others.

Originally posted by waveydavey
Yet the world police, USA,

Because the last time the US tried to remain neutral it resulted in 2 world wars.

Originally posted by waveydavey
the ONLY nation to EVER use Nuclear weapons in ANGER

If you are going to play stickball in Brooklynn you better know the rules. Japan started the war, not the US. Japan also had a nuke program, just like the Nazis, and I guarantee if Japan or Germany got them first things today would be a lot different. We deployed nukes in order to force an end to the war instead of an invasion of the Japanese main islands that would have resulted in many more deaths than the nukes did.

Secondly research Japanese war crimes during WWII and you will quickly find Japan killed more civilians / pows than those killed in the bombing attacks.

Tip oif the day - Dont start a war and then whine at the end when you lose.

Originally posted by waveydavey
has the gall to dictate to anybody who should or should not have these weapons. Please, I'm not anti American I'm anti US Government.

Why not? As you pointed out we have used nukes so what could be better than the US trying to limit them in the world by citing example?

Secondly Iran is violating their treaty obligations .with the UN, not the US. The US is not the only country whatching / tying to resolve the issues with Iran. We arent dictating to them, the treaty is. They are more than welcome to withdraw.

Originally posted by waveydavey
idiots.

Yes, Iran is very much an idiot.