the whole 'deny ignorance' thing

just been wondering, what's the point of DENYING ignorance?

doesn't that mean you're denying your own or someone else's ignorance?

if you deny someone else or you are ignorant when you are ignorant, how does that help anything?

instead of denying our or other people's ignorance i.e. deny means not admitting something (i.e. not admitting your or someone else's ignorance)

shouldn't we be EXPOSING or FIGHTING or UNCOVERING ignorance? combatting ignorance?

rather than 'denying' it?

that little phrase has never made any sense to me. i think it's just a semantic or grammatical mistake; i know the meaning that was intended by the phrase... but the phrase actually conveys a totally different meaning to that which is clearly intended for this forum...

just saying...

(grammar bugs me..)

reply to post by rapunzel222

de·ny (d-n)
tr.v. de·nied, de·ny·ing, de·nies
1. To declare untrue; contradict.
2. To refuse to believe; reject.
3. To refuse to recognize or acknowledge; disavow.
4.
a. To decline to grant or allow; refuse: deny the student's request; denied the prisoner food or water.
b. To give a refusal to; turn down or away: The protesters were determined not to be denied.
c. To restrain (oneself) especially from indulgence in pleasures.

Source

Seems like a viable phrasing to me.

~Heff

it's working for the governments and banks.

reply to post by rapunzel222

that little phrase has never made any sense to me.

Same here. I never got the meaning myself, I find denying ignorance is the main problem, no?

Example....

Ignorant Fool: "Our gov't would NEVER do something like 9/11 or Oklahoma City bombing, that's just disrespectful and anti-American!"

ME: "Well..... I'm going to deny your ignorance of reality and let you alone with your thoughts, have a wonderful day!"

Doesn't make much sense to me, or to you I guess.

reply to post by Hefficide


I agree.

It makes sense.

The deny means to reject. Like a block or 'rejection' in basketball.

Pretty simple.

It is arrogant in a way but it makes sense.

Down to interpretation I guess

They denied ignorance in past times - Some fools said the Earth was round.

I have been here for a good while.

From reading some posts, some here would have a hard time denying their ignorance.

My mother told me, "We are all ignorant about something, we can't know it all, but there is a difference in ignorance and stupid"

"Ignorant just means you don't know, stupid means you know better and do things anyway."

I understand what is meant by this phrase. I just wish there was a cure for stupid.

reply to post by rapunzel222


No, I just don't think you have quite the grasp on grammar as you think you do.

Deny Ignorance.

Ignorance is born from being uninformed.

ATS strives to inform and educate, as such, it's denying Ignorance the chance to take hold.

Why did you create a thread to argue semantics?

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by rapunzel222

 

de·ny (d-n)
tr.v. de·nied, de·ny·ing, de·nies
1. To declare untrue; contradict.
2. To refuse to believe; reject.
3. To refuse to recognize or acknowledge; disavow.
4.
a. To decline to grant or allow; refuse: deny the student's request; denied the prisoner food or water.
b. To give a refusal to; turn down or away: The protesters were determined not to be denied.
c. To restrain (oneself) especially from indulgence in pleasures.

Source

Seems like a viable phrasing to me.

~Heff

Yet each and every one of us are infinitely more ignorant than we are knowledgable.
To deny ignorance is to deny who and what we really are.

reply to post by OutonaLimb


In denying our ignorance, we acknowledge it. And in acknowledging it we can seek to overcome it.

Had to Google 18 times to come up with that one... philosophy always irked me.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by rapunzel222

 

No, I just don't think you have quite the grasp on grammar as you think you do.

Deny Ignorance.

Ignorance is born from being uninformed.

ATS strives to inform and educate, as such, it's denying Ignorance the chance to take hold.

Why did you create a thread to argue semantics?

Perhaps the interpretation of Deny Ignorance is key.

You can not deny what already exists IE Ignorance.

Perhaps "One should accept ignorance and then endevour to educate" But of course such a title is not catchy.

reply to post by rapunzel222


Denying ignorance means thinking outside the box by my definition. It means being open to several alternatives and not simply picking the most probable one or scientific one. Because doing that is simply dogma. Its what the schools teach us to do.

When I see posts that truly deny ignorance, I love it.

Makes sense to me.

Deny ignorance a place in your mind. Be diligent to eradicate it, when and where you find it, inside yourself.

See my signature.

reply to post by rapunzel222
I felt as though I was the only one who had a beef against the terms use. ATS is not about "denying" ignorance, its about "Defying" it!

I have carried this flag since the "Deny Ignorance" campaign started, I will not Deny it, I will Defy it!

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by OutonaLimb

 

In denying our ignorance, we acknowledge it. And in acknowledging it we can seek to overcome it.

Had to Google 18 times to come up with that one... philosophy always irked me.

But how can you possibly hope to overcome the infinite?
Only in accepting completely our absolute ignorance, can we hope to become anyway knowlegable.

And F* Google!

(Please don't punish me this time for the use of F*. It is appropriate.)

((Or maybe it isn't - What the F* do I know?))

ETA: I impress myself sometimes with how funny I am. But then I feel guilty
for being so impressed. And then I ponder on how unfunny I must really be in
the greater scheme of things. I always, in situations such as this, end up necessarily
embracing and indeed valuing my utter ignorance of what others think and feel,
and what really, really IS.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
just been wondering, what's the point of DENYING ignorance?

doesn't that mean you're denying your own or someone else's ignorance?

if you deny someone else or you are ignorant when you are ignorant, how does that help anything?

instead of denying our or other people's ignorance i.e. deny means not admitting something (i.e. not admitting your or someone else's ignorance)

shouldn't we be EXPOSING or FIGHTING or UNCOVERING ignorance? combatting ignorance?

rather than 'denying' it?

that little phrase has never made any sense to me. i think it's just a semantic or grammatical mistake; i know the meaning that was intended by the phrase... but the phrase actually conveys a totally different meaning to that which is clearly intended for this forum...

just saying...

(grammar bugs me..)

I actually completely understand what you mean. As someone who often prides myself on my ability to communicate effectively, and sometimes takes great pains to use precise and exact wording, I have always found the wording of that saying to be very strange.

It is supposed to be a play on the term "deny knowledge," which is supposedly what "The Powers That Be" do all the time, right? But I agree that the wording makes it sound very strange, and even the psycho-emotional implications of denial give the phrase a bad flavor. Just my two cents.

reply to post by iwilliam

But I agree that the wording makes it sound very strange, and even the psycho-emotional implications of denial give the phrase a bad flavor. Just my two cents.

Exactly.

I've never liked it and I cringe every time someone uses it in debate like it's some magical phrase that validates their argument. It could have been better. Why is a motto even necessary?

Norman Mailer wrote:

"...there were substantial powers to be obtained by catering to stupid stubborn people, and George W. Bush would be the man to harvest such resources. George W. understood stupid people well. They were not dumb, their minds were not physically crippled in any way. They had chosen to be stupid because that offered its own kind of power. To win a great many small contests of will, they needed only to ignore all evidence. Bright people would break down trying to argue with them."

I guess I get the intended meaning- it was something along the lines of reject being ignorant (seek to be informed instead)

It still always struck me as wierd at first too because I am used to seeing and using the term in psychological contexts- where being in denial of something means refusing to acknowledge honestly that is really going on or is really true. A purposeful choice to close ones eyes about some internal state.

In that context, denying your ignorance is where you refuse to acknowledge there is something you don't know, and so you do not look further, do not open your mind to new or alternative information (because you tell yourself you already know it all).

So there is room for misinterpretation. Except once you know what the site is about, you can figure out which meaning was intended.

Regardless of what it means or is supposed to mean, many people only use it as a form of cut down.

"I believe X exists."

"No, it doesn't, you're uninformed. Deny ignorance."

And when someone says that, I usually deny them a response.