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2012 Real Issues: Economy and Obamacare

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posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Is it just me? I don't know about you guys but I'm sick and tired of hearing about racism and sexism. When are we going to start talking about real issues like the economy and Obamacare? What will a 2nd term Obama bring? What will a Romney 1st term bring? These are real issues that affect every single American. Please comment.

Obama loses election lead over economy By Dick Morris
thehill.com...

Promises vs. reality: A look at ObamaCare By Armstrong Williams
thehill.com...




posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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I think the "real" and most important issue is the one not being discussed. The longest on going war in US history, and the country being on the brink of another war, which will lead to the next world war. But hey, lets just be pissed off about free health care for poor people. Thats what matters the most, right?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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One example of a missed economic opportunity by President Obama, the Keystone pipeline. These were shovel ready jobs that only needed his approval. Yet Obama's decision is baffling to say the least. We could have had thousands of more jobs and more oil supply in our markets. Now it looks like our neighbor, Canada, will end up selling oil to China. Obama may be a nice guy, but his executive decisions are very


en.wikipedia.org...

Obama rejects Keystone pipeline, blames Republicans for ‘arbitrary’ deadline By Ben Geman and Andrew Restuccia
thehill.com...



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by theconspirator
I think the "real" and most important issue is the one not being discussed. The longest on going war in US history, and the country being on the brink of another war, which will lead to the next world war. But hey, lets just be pissed off about free health care for poor people. Thats what matters the most, right?

You should write the president and ask him why he continues the war and what he's doing in starting another.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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Well.... I think we all know why Romney, Obama and the MSM don't want us thinking about the real issues. Non stop distractions designed to make most Americans vent all their hostility in arguing around the water cooler about emotional issues that will never find a full consensus, and that government intervention has no rightful place in anyway. Chewing gum for the voting public.

I suppose ATS is a microcosm of the American public- people do like the issues that appear to have a clear moral "right if you're with me, wrong if you're against me"- easy to vent some steam over.

The real issues, as you know, are far more complicated and interconnected with the power structures and society. There are no policy wrenches that will fix those things. They will be solved eventually, but probably not through careful planning by wise leaders.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by theconspirator
 


83% of doctors are considering quitting medical practice in the U.S. I hope Obamacare doesn't affect how you and your family seek healthcare. Do you want to go to the emergency room and have to wait a long, long time and get a doctor that is half awake?

Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare By Sally Nelson
dailycaller.com...



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 


those people dedicated a huge portion of thier lives to become doctors. Realistically, not even 10% of all doctors will quit. What are they going to do? quit and become teachers? I know I wouldnt take that paycut.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by theconspirator
 


They will go to other countries, work less, get paid more.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
Is it just me? I don't know about you guys but I'm sick and tired of hearing about racism and sexism. When are we going to start talking about real issues like the economy and Obamacare? What will a 2nd term Obama bring? What will a Romney 1st term bring? These are real issues that affect every single American. Please comment.


I am terribly annoyed that they will not debate the issues. However it seems that the non-incumbent must push his platform and agenda because we know the policies of the incumbent.

The press will not do much more than report what the politicians say (they are not going to ask the tough questions anymore it seems) so if a candidate wants to push his platform I think he needs to make the 1st move. But at least the GOP has released their 2012 Republican platform [PDF] at the RNC.

I went to the RNC site to find a link to the platform rather than quote a news source and I noticed this:

So I guess race is going to be an issue in this campaign no matter what we like... (not trying to be critical at all - just pointing out)

This appears to be the 2008 Democratic platform [DOC] as well, I think we need to wait for the official 2012 platform at the DNC.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Elton because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Eh probably not, but I'm no expert in medical practices. But my point is, the wars are more important then obamacare.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by theconspirator
 


Thank you, because my cousin and his wife are medical doctors in private practice. And they are not sure whether or not to "continue" business.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
reply to post by theconspirator
 


Thank you, because my cousin and his wife are medical doctors in private practice. And they are not sure whether or not to "continue" business.


I can counter that with my sister and brother are doctors and they have no intention of quitting. Anecdotes and biased polls are not good predictions of the future social trends.

If a doctor wants to quit because he or she may make a little less in a few years I say let them quit... They were not the doctors we generally want (the greedy ones'). The folks who get into medicine because they want to help others (and make a living) are the one's I want diagnosing and treating me. (for the record I am a Medical Lab Tech in a Reference lab).

EDIT: I don't wish financial hardships on your family, so please do not take my response as an insult or attack, just friendly debate.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Elton because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Elton
 


I never read into it, but if everyone is going to pay a little more in taxes, to pay for peoples healthcare insurance, how does that negatively effect a doctors pay? The way I see it, if poor people can afford to go to the doctors, when in the past they couldnt, that is more business for the doctors. And more money for the private practice doctors, like the OP imaginary cousin and wife.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Elton
 


I totally agree. After 12 years of sacrifice. You either do it because you want to help people or you do it because you want to have a better quality of living. It will be 2 generations before the supply of quality healthcare catches up with the demand created by Obamacare. The doctors that will work under Obamacare will be stretched way too thin. Look at Romneycare in Massachusetts. The outcome was disastrous there. I'm not crazy about Romney, but he has my vote. He will repeal Obamacare because his Romneycare did not work in Massachusetts.

The failure of RomneyCare, doctor shortage edition by Philip Klein
washingtonexaminer.com...



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
reply to post by Elton
 


The failure of RomneyCare, doctor shortage edition by Philip Klein
washingtonexaminer.com...


I am not familiar with how RomneyCare has been working out (I am in Colorado and we have a great healthcare system here - I am not kidding) so I can't really make a great debate on that particular legislation. However I see that Romney still thinks it is great as of 6 days ago...


DENVER — Claiming health care bragging rights, Mitt Romney said Thursday his plan to provide health insurance to everyone in Massachusetts was superior to the one it inspired, President Barack Obama’s much-debated national law.

“My health care plan I put in place in my state has everyone insured, but we didn’t go out and raise taxes on people and have a unelected board tell people what kind of health care they can have,” Romney said in an interview with CBS’ Denver affiliate, KCNC.
article

I do think that people are acting out of fear at the moment, most of us do not understand OBCare and that certainly does not ease people's fears.

WHen you say repeal OBCare I hope you don't mean repeal these parts, they seem really good, I would hate for politics to remove things that are beneficial just because we don't like the guy who championed the cause. (I understand there are some obvious things you must not like about the bill so I did not include those as I wanted a list that you would have trouble rejecting out of hand)


Children’s Pre-Existing Conditions - Insurance companies can no longer limit or deny benefits to children under age 19 due to a pre-existing health condition.

Doctor Choice & ER Access - You have the right to choose the doctor you want from your plan’s network or seek emergency care at a hospital outside of your health plan’s network.

Curbing Insurance Cancellations - Insurance companies can no longer cancel your coverage just because you made an honest mistake on your application.

Medicare Drug Discounts - Eligible seniors who are in the coverage gap known as the “donut hole” automatically receive a discount on prescription drugs in 2011 and beyond.

Young Adult Coverage - If you are under 26, you may be eligible for health insurance coverage under your parent’s plan.


Please understand that Health insurance companies exempt from anti-trust laws so this system requires much government regulation to maintain quality of facilities, supplies and people for safety but the anti-trade exemption means that the insurance companies can price fix with no penalty so we can not expect the free market system to regulate correctly because of the McCarran–Ferguson Act (which was a bi-partisan legislation - lucky us, huh...).

There are certainly no easy solutions...



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Elton
 


You missed the point. Why should "Americans" be required to buy anything? Do we have to also buy the air we breath? It goes agains the fundamentals of the the Constitution. Where does it say in the Constitution that we are required to purchase anything?

HERE IS MY QUESTION: CAN THE GOVERNMENT FORCE THEIR CITIZENS TO BUY ANYTHING?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Stop playing the race card, the sexism card, and the victim card. Show my financially, how Obamacare is feasible. And how me how healthcare will improve in my lifetime. And tell me why Obamacare will be more inexpensive for me in the shortrun, as well as the longrun. BTW, what is BK for??



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by RELDDIR
Stop playing the race card, the sexism card, and the victim card.


Please point out in my posts in this thread where I have done that?
EDIT: I found it, you are referring to the image
I was pointing out that race will be an issue because both sides keep it an issue.


Originally posted by RELDDIR
Show my financially, how Obamacare is feasible.

I am not an economist (I suspect you are not either) and I do not have access to all the government financial data to answer that for you.


Originally posted by RELDDIR
And how me how healthcare will improve in my lifetime.

No plan can guarantee success, not Obamacare, Medicare, Romneycare, or a free for all...


Originally posted by RELDDIR
And tell me why Obamacare will be more inexpensive for me in the shortrun, as well as the longrun.

What I understand (again I am not an economist, if you happen to be one I am sure you can correct me if needed) is that if more people are paying into an insurance pool it generally drives costs down for everyone in the pool.


Originally posted by RELDDIR
BTW, what is BK for??


I don't know - does my profile say BK somewhere (or one of my posts)? I'm a bit tired and could easily be misspelling a lot.


Oh man we are debating in 2 thread, I didn't realize that was you too...
edit on 29-8-2012 by Elton because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by RELDDIR
 

Dear RELDDIR,

I must say that your thread is very welcome indeed.
Todd Akin, Ellen (sp?) Barkin, and others will have no effect on the country. The idea that one or both politicians is "out of touch" is so vague as to be meaningless.
In an ideal world we would have an entire forum dedicated to "issues 2012," but this is a great start.

Let me add a bit to the doctor and Obamacare discussion. I found an article in The New York Times which I think is helpful.
www.nytimes.com...

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — In the Inland Empire, an economically depressed region in Southern California, President Obama’s health care law is expected to extend insurance coverage to more than 300,000 people by 2014. But coverage will not necessarily translate into care: Local health experts doubt there will be enough doctors to meet the area’s needs. There are not enough now.

Other places around the country, including the Mississippi Delta, Detroit and suburban Phoenix, face similar problems. The Association of American Medical Colleges estimates that in 2015 the country will have 62,900 fewer doctors than needed. And that number will more than double by 2025, as the expansion of insurance coverage and the aging of baby boomers drive up demand for care. Even without the health care law, the shortfall of doctors in 2025 would still exceed 100,000.

Moreover, across the country, fewer than half of primary care clinicians were accepting new Medicaid patients as of 2008, making it hard for the poor to find care even when they are eligible for Medicaid. The expansion of Medicaid accounts for more than one-third of the overall growth in coverage in President Obama’s health care law.

The pool of doctors has not kept pace, and will not, health experts said. Medical school enrollment is increasing, but not as fast as the population. The number of training positions for medical school graduates is lagging. Younger doctors are on average working fewer hours than their predecessors. And about a third of the country’s doctors are 55 or older, and nearing retirement.
They seem to be saying that we're short of doctors and Obamacare will make it worse. I suspect that there will be rationing by the 15 member review panel, and that waits for everything will increase.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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I was flipping back between MSNBC and Fox News tonight. MSNBC cried racism every other minute. They tried to ask Condi about race and the birthers???? Out of everything that that woman has achieved you want to demean her and our party with the birther issue???

Liberals cannot take jokes!
Romney wins with the Economy
Ryan wins with medicare.
edit on 29-8-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)




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