Israel angered over IAEA vote on nuclear arsenal

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Even though Israel is a member of the IAEA, they should have signed the NPT as well, before calling people out on not following it.
This pretty much sums up the way Israel has the US by the balls.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed




The treaties are not required although I do think it would be a good idea for all countries to join. I would like to point something out since I see the above comments often in this area.

Question -
If the position of people is that Israel has a nuclear weapons program, taking into account Israel has never confirmed or denied possessing them, what are people basing their conclusion on?

* - If the argument to support an Israeli nuclear weapons program is based on intelligence operations, then there should be no reason to discount intelligence agencies making the same claims about Iran and their program.

* - If the argument to support an Israeli nuclear weapons program is based on former scientists / people involved in the process then there should be no reason to discount their Iranian counterparts who have made the same claims about Irans program.

Yes? No?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Aw . Israel is angry.

Time to pull out the Victim Card.

I`m surprised the Israeli Delegate didn`t mention the Holocaust.

reply to post by Xcathdra


There was not enough evidence/proof to justify an attack on the Syrian facility., The reason Syria didn't retaliate is because they know better. A Syrian attack on Israel would result in a massive land theft and a certain end to the current regime, which probably won't be there much longer anyways but that is beside the point.

The only thing that Syria was accused of was denying access, which does look suspicious but bad things happen when UN contingents visit, scientists and political rivals get assassinated possibly assisted with help from these reports and documents so I don't blame Syria for not wanting to bow down to ridiculous demands of allowing foreign enemies into their country.

As you said, Iran and Syria have denied inspections of certain facilities for various reasons which does add some substance to your argument, but the fact of the matter is that Israel has around 300 war heads and have this thing called the samson option. I'm not saying you say this, but there is a common "Israel can have nukes, they never used them" mentality but they have made it known they would and have threatened to do so via more veiled threats...such as "all options are on the table" which could be interpreted any way you want.

I have no problem with inspectors in Iran or Syria, but it would only be logical if Israel allowed inspectors in too since they want the world community to take their word, when they can't even admit their arsenals that they are accusing other nations of developing, even though Panetta and Israeli sources has gone as far as saying that Iran is not currently seeking the bomb, that has changed lately though.

I hope I answered all your questions, even they weren't in the right order. I can elaborate more if you wish.

I would like to know if you officially acknowledge Israel's arsenal, regardless of their ambiguity on the subject.

reply to post by Xcathdra


This is a pretty convincing document. It doesn't say in black and white that they have it though, but, why would a country want to buy nukes from someone that doesn't have them?

Originally posted by phatpackage
To all the left wing terrorist sympathisers get over yourselves.

The facts are:

1) Iran is a terrorist nation who are striving to build a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel & their allies.

You say this is a fact yet you do not give any evidence to base this fact off. Any proof or is this just your opinion? Apart from mainstream media reports, do you have anything else that states Iran are speedily trying to build nukes to destroy countries? Last I heard, they were building nuclear power plants.

2) Israel is allowed to have Nukes and Iran are not, simple. Iran cannot be trusted.

So Israel are allowed to have a WMD and no-one else in the middle east who do not satisfy the western agenda can? I don't trust Israel with anything, including the well being of oppressed Palestinians in Gaza. How can you trust a country who was created from deceit to start with? They did steal that land remember...

And all the left wing bitching, moaning, protest, forum and blog writing gets you no where. The people "running the show" just don't care about you or your opinion and will defend the more responsible nation of Israel's right to have nukes and stop the terrorist nation of Iran having them. Drive them into the ground and turn them into glass if required.

These are facts of life

No they are not facts of life. These are your opinions which do not hold any ground anywhere. I would like to see your factual evidence... I would feel like I'm at a comedy show. Israel are not responsible and Israel only have nukes because they know that without them, the likes of Iran would turn them into putty. Israel are a pack of pussies.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Aw . Israel is angry.

Time to pull out the Victim Card.

I`m surprised the Israeli Delegate didn`t mention the Holocaust.

I don't know why a Kurt Vonnegut quote comes to mind...

Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

How on earth would Israel find the audacity to criticize Syria's nuclear program?

Quite simply because Syria hides no intention of leveling Israel.

And before someone jumps on the horse of "mistranslation", I should provide this information:

Operation Orchard

Operation Orchard was an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor in the Deir ez-Zor region of Syria carried out just after midnight (local time) on September 6, 2007. The White House and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later confirmed that American intelligence had also indicated the site was a nuclear facility with a military purpose, though Syria denies this. An International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) investigation reported evidence of uranium and graphite and concluded that the site bore features resembling an undeclared nuclear reactor.IAEA was initially unable to confirm or deny the nature of the site because, according to IAEA, Syria failed to provide necessary cooperation with the IAEA investigation (...)

Israel felt so strongly about it because Syria - and Egypt - attacked them in a very particular manner:

Yom Kippur War (1973)

The Yom Kippur War, Ramadan War or October War, also known as the 1973 Arab–Israeli War and the Fourth Arab–Israeli War, was fought from October 6 to 25, 1973, between Israel and a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria.

The war began when the coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in Judaism, which happened to occur that year during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Egyptian and Syrian forces crossed ceasefire lines to enter the Israeli-held Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights respectively, which had been captured and occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War. Both the United States and the Soviet Union initiated massive resupply efforts to their respective allies during the war, and this led to a near-confrontation between the two nuclear superpowers.

Last time super-powers started playing with each-other, we almost started a nuclear war.

The Six Day War started because all sides were constantly teasing each-other, Syria misread Israel actions, the Soviet Union provided bad information to Syria, and the pride of not retreating forces that were already moved to bump chests meant there was a real threat for everyone involved.

The tensions ended with Israel doing a surprise airstrike because the arab coalition was making constant threats and severe claims.

One of which sounds familiar:

On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Source (BBC)

In June that year Israel launched the airstrike.

I'm not making this post because I disagree completely what you said, just wished to expand the quoted part a bit.

Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy

The Yom Kippur War, Ramadan War or October War, also known as the 1973 Arab–Israeli War and the Fourth Arab–Israeli War, was fought from October 6 to 25, 1973, between Israel and a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria.

I'm not making this post because I disagree completely what you said, just wished to expand the quoted part a bit.

If I may add some further content to your post.

After a False Flag Act of War attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 , Israel almost had the Americans NUKE a innocent country , Egypt, as Jets flew off the USS America armed with Nukes, headed toward Cairo.

They were recalled as the Americans wanted further confirmation, fearing it may have been a Russian Attack.

So Israel`s hands weren`t exactly clean before the Yom Kippur War.

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by phatpackage

 

In my opinion, posts like these have no credibility. They are stock talking points and show zero knowledge of context, no understanding of history or culture. Not all opinions are equal; some have more value than others. On this issue I proclaim my opinion more qualified than most here because I've a firm grip on history and I worked within the Israeli culture for a decade, taking many trips there. I also routinely dealt with many people who are on first name basis even with Bebe and others in the power structure.

I met him briefly myself (very briefly, after he spoke to a closed small group in my old company). Israel is a small place with less than 7 million people. Everyone in power knows everyone else; they all went to the same one of two major universities, they all served together in the IDF, etc. They've created an amazing entrepreneurial culture that rivals the Silicon Valley. The people are extraordinarily courageous and universally bold. But they have one massive chip on their shoulder -- for good reason, sure, but there nonetheless.

I was embedded in Zionism for YEARS and can find you plenty of average Israelis who rail against Zionism too. They also do NOT like the American fundies and evangelicals, who they think are existentially dangerous to them because they treat Israeli lives as pawns in their apocalyptic fantasies.

Had the Israeli government been secular (like its population actually, who are FAR less religious than Americans as a whole), that region would be very different.

edit on 29-8-2012 by pajoly because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-8-2012 by pajoly because: (no reason given)

In my opinion post's like yours show a complete lack of respect people to have their own opinions based off knowledge, research and people they have met or know. Then purely on the basis of a difference of opinion you flippantly dismiss someone as having "zero knowledge of context, no understanding of history or culture" is ludicrous.

No matter what you tell yourself everyone's opinions are all equal. Believing otherwise is discriminatory. I don't agree with most of the opinions I on ATS but respect that they have a right to express that. Whatever helps you sleep.

Oh yes, and you "proclaim" your opinion to be more qualified ....... Hmmmmmm Bit of a supremacist are we? Even sounds like you are possibly "proclaiming" to be a God or Guru on the subject. Hmmmmm. You sound like Homer Simpson when he states "The whole world is stupid except for me" or in your case anyone who disagrees with your opinion. There are others in this world who too have studied history and culture not just you so get a grip of yourself.

And again as per my previous post this is the way the ball game is being played. Learn to live with it.

Israel deserve to have nuclear weapons & Iran the terrorist nation do not. SImple

reply to post by Tw0Sides

After a False Flag Act of War attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 , Israel almost had the Americans NUKE a innocent country , Egypt, as Jets flew off the USS America armed with Nukes, headed toward Cairo.

A False Flag attack - the true meaning of the popular expression - is an attack where the identity of the attackers is simulated/manipulated/hidden, in order to justify a response against the objective enemy.

This is what happened with USS Liberty:

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty, though others, including many of the ship's survivors that could be located four decades later, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.

Source (Wiki)

The rest of the details can be found at the source, but in my opinion, many are subjective to the way you look at them, or if you already believe Israel had intent in making such a mistake.

I don't think it was because of a couple of reasons:

-This was in the middle of a war.
-Many arab ships disguised them-sefl as western.
-The USS Liberty was basically a spy ship, with a lot of covert-type work.

I would agree if you would say that both US and Israel did something stupid to each-other, and bumped heads. But calling it a false flag? I don't believe that.

They were recalled as the Americans wanted further confirmation, fearing it may have been a Russian Attack.

The whole problem with the situation was the clear lack of communication between all involved, intentional or not.

Americans wanted confirmations, but when Israel realized what they had done, they were back in the attack area within minutes and gave support to survivors.

So Israel`s hands weren`t exactly clean before the Yom Kippur War.

The USS Liberty incident happened during the Six Day War. *The Yom Kippur war was started after the 6-day, and the 6-day war was caused by a similar situation.

Everyone involved is to blame.

Originally posted by Truth100
ISRAEL WILL NEVER DISAPPEAR FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

edit on 29-8-2012 by Truth100 because: (no reason given)

You spelled "forever" wrong.

If Israel has nothing to hide, then Israel has nothing to get angry about. But who am I kidding, we all know exactly what this is all about, and why they are so upset..

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty, though others, including many of the ship's survivors that could be located four decades later, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.

This is a barefaced lie. Radiomen on the Liberty intercepted signals from the Israeli pilots informing the higher ups that it was an American ship the pilots were told if they didn't fire they would be court marshaled when they landed. I wouldn't trust the Israelis to do a real investigation and the American who led the investigation was John McCain's father.

This is a good thing. Israel wants to complain about other sovereign countries possessing nuclear weapons, when they themselves not only have nukes, but refuse to comply with international regulations regarding these weapons. If they really are a nation without separation of church and state, then their religion must not be very moral, seeing as they lie, murder, cheat, and steal on a regular basis. So what will happen if the rest of the world tells Israel that they need to start breaking down their nuclear stockpile?

Israel will simply do what it has always done...Be hypocritical. They will refuse to comply. But of course they will still throw a tantrum when other nations don't comply with orders from the same governing body. How can they sit there and say they are religious and moral and all of that crap, when clearly they are not? Do they think people are stupid? Apparently anyone who buys their crap must be, but I think that it is obvious that they simply do not care...I can guarantee that if the USA wanted them to do away with the majority of their nukes, they wouldn't comply. Not only that, they would gladly go to war with anyone rather than be told what to do. They are a ridiculous government and nation in general.

I have recently developed somewhat of a condemnation for Islam because of what its doctrine says to do to anyone who isn't a Muslim. I am starting to develop that same condemnation for Judaism, strictly based on Israel's actions. Do they not claim to be a Jewish state? If this is the case, then as I said, either they are lying or their religion is just as bad as Islam when it comes to treating other peoples with respect and dignity. But it really isn't surprising, as all one has to do is look at what they have done to the Palestinians. Illegally occupy their homeland, and then try to say they are just defending themselves when they get attacked. Ya, maybe they are sometimes, but they started it. If they would leave there wouldn't be a problem. But they take it much further than defending themselves, although they claim antisemitism whenever someone tries to bring up valid points such as these.

reply to post by buster2010

This is a barefaced lie.

Proof?

You are not seriously advising me to take as factual a 5 minute amateur Youtube video, are you?

Radiomen on the Liberty intercepted signals from the Israeli pilots informing the higher ups that it was an American ship the pilots were told if they didn't fire they would be court marshaled when they landed.

Don't take this personally, but that's a movie storyline, not reality.

This incident was a consequence of multiple and constant miscommunications inside the IAF/IDF and the US Armed forces. It developed through hours, not minutes, and there isn't an angry coronel yelling at his pilots to "dive and attack!".

This isn't Star Wars.

There are protocols, chains of command and other procedures before any military action is taken. Everyone that has approached me in relation to the USS Liberty, fails to aknowledge this was during war time, and that the day before, Egypt warships were shelling the coast.

Add to that the possibility of the USS Libery hiding it's identity AND location to other vessels and aircrafts due to it's mission, and you can see the plausibility of this being a true accident.

I wouldn't trust the Israelis to do a real investigation and the American who led the investigation was John McCain's father.

If you already assume something as a lie, there is no way you can analyze a case without being "affected".

I prefer to hear everyone explain their version, and only then judge for myself.

Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy

Proof?

You are not seriously advising me to take as factual a 5 minute amateur Youtube video, are you?

How about interviews with actual survivors of the attack.

Excellent Doc, enjoy your enlightenment.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

How about interviews with actual survivors of the attack.

You mean the ones reported in the investigations?

Excellent Doc, enjoy your enlightenment.

I have already seen that doc. Hasn't changed my opinion.

I'm not saying this as an attack on your credibility or sources, but I rather chew information myself than to have someone chew and diggest it for me.

If people want to claim that the attack was intentional, with the objective of taking out of working order a military spy vessel, I don't agree but I believe it's plausible.

However, after reading the CIA report, the Joint Chief of Staff report, with other similar reports attached, plus the Israeli side, my conclusion is that it was what many people at the time said it was:

A clear statement of negligence, war fatigue and lack of proper military chain of communications.

Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy

However, after reading the CIA report, the Joint Chief of Staff report, with other similar reports attached, plus the Israeli side, my conclusion is that it was what many people at the time said it was:

No Problem sir.
Even in todays world, there are some that still believe that the world is Flat.

You , as they do, are entitled to your beliefs.

reply to post by Tw0Sides


I've learned not to bother interacting with deniers of the USS LIberty.

Supporters of hellish lies get dealt with accordingly in the long run.

Karma or what ever you call it, I'm not religious but I believe in a balance that you must maintain and if you contribute to the negativity of the world you have some bad mojo coming your way. Quite a few posters may have this on the immediate horizon if my deluded predictions are correct.

We reap what we sow.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

Even in todays world, there are some that still believe that the world is Flat.

You , as they do, are entitled to your beliefs.

I would apologize for being frontal in my next few phrases, but you are being condescending, which is far worst, in my opinion.

As I see it, there aren't people who think the world is flat or round.

To me there are two groups of people:

Those who have to wait for others to study and tell them how the world is.
Those who go out to the real world and find out them-selfs through education.

I'm with the second.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

I've learned not to bother interacting with deniers of the USS LIberty.

Me too.

But I realize he was posting with a agenda awhile ago.

I was merely putting forth information for the Lurkers and Readers to read, and View.

There a lot of younger members unaware of the Lies that is Israel.

I will continue to put forth information , so they can make up their own minds, and negate the influence of the Israeli Bootlickers.