Can India liberate Tibet if it wanted to?

Originally posted by Hawkssss


Olympic medals count because it shows how competitive your country is and whether you even have the resources to spare for war if you can't even win 1 gold in the olympics. Why don't you look at the top 10 in olympics: US, china, Russia, UK, france, Japan, germany, etc.. Where does india belong: the losers the column.

2) China is still fielding T-55 while india is fielding advanced british tanks. Like what. Do you have a frigging idea what you are talking about??????? Do these photos look lik T-55 to you? And what advanced british tanks exactly does india have, like the Challenger???? I thought it is fielding Russian T-72s mostly as their top of the line and most of their tanks were as old as some of ours!!!!! And they have scrapped their Arjun tank which was delayed for 10 years!!!!

4) In terms of airforce, both are comparable in technology while we have a huge numerical advantage and we produced huge numbers of planes such as upgraded J7s, J8 etc and the new J-10 is under mass production and is exporting the FC-1 while india doesn't make ANY, ANY aircrafts and their air force is called "flying coffin". Please don't even mention LCA, which has failed a test in Russia just recently and they crashed 3 Mirage 2000 last month along. (yes, I can provide all the source you need on these)


We have our own trainer FTC-2000 while indian airforce's training is so bad that they are called the flying coffin and they had to buy some british trainer recently. See again, they can't make crap.
www.wforum.com...



The PLA has fought against the US-led UN forces successfully in Korea driving them back from the china-korea border back to the 38th parallel where the war stopped till today. (the casualty of China+n. Korea is roughly equal to the casualty of UN forces+S. Korea). We have skirmished with USSR, Vietnam and entirely and thoroughly obliterated the Indians in 1962. Not to mention, we had a huge hand in Vietnam as well.

Hawksss, you twit.

That was me talking about tanks. And I said Vickers tanks, I never said advanced or Challenger.

We've dealt with the Olympics, its irrelevant. We've got more medals than you so shut up!

India does make aircraft.

The LCA is a military fighter being tested in Russia as we argue. And the other is a civil lear jet type.

Australia flies BAe Hawk trainers, does that mean we can't make crap and our air-force is no good?

Yes, the PLA had a great hand in VN. What happened to it in 1979?

Careful...don't use 'twit' too often...I think I got a warning for that!!
Or was it for calling them 'chicoms'..

Originally posted by Hawkssss
Not only are they the best in boasting and bluffing, they are also the best in discrimination of the so-called untouchable, dalits. BTW, do you know they don't have toilet papers? lol What a bunch of basket case.

^^And this is just pathetic.

What are the central government doing to the Uighars at the moment. Do you even know who the Uighars are or where they are? How about Falun Gong? What happened to the students in the square of heavenly peace?

Chairman Mao: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

Mohandas K Ghandi: "An eye for an eye just makes the whole world blind."

Now who looks enlightened and who looks like a barbarian? Don't get into an off-topic discussion you don't have the information to back up.

What's the ethnic make up of the central committee?

What are the religion and ethnicity of the Indian PM, the Indian President and the chairperson of the Congress Party?

------>Can India liberate Tibet if it wanted to?

Here is a good link to PLA weapons system and please don't even try to say crap until you go through it!
www.sinodefence.com...

1) China does't have AWACS: well you know what, we do. take a look at these photos???? It is reported that China already bought two An50I and one English source reported that China is in the process of fielding our self-make AWACS. This is an interview with the designer with our own indigenous AWACS.
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...

2) China is still fielding T-55 while india is fielding advanced british tanks. Like what. Do you have a frigging idea what you are talking about??????? Do these photos look lik T-55 to you? And what advanced british tanks exactly does india have, like the Challenger???? I thought it is fielding Russian T-72s mostly as their top of the line and most of their tanks were as old as some of ours!!!!! And they have scrapped their Arjun tank which was delayed for 10 years!!!!
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...://www.wforum.com/specials/articles/02/757.html

3) India's navy is better. Like what!!!! All it has are the two old carriers that are about to retire. They haven't added any DDGs in the past few years while chinese navy added two new Sovys (with two more due next year and the year after) and 4 054 Aegis-equivalent DDGs, a few 054 Steath frigates, Yuan-Class subs, etc. What has india added besides the 3 steath frigates it bought from russia????????

Our total naval tonnage is on a matter 2 or 3X of that of india and while there sub fleet is only a fraction of ours.

So people, please stop bullshiiiting if you know nothing. Bottom line is we make the majority of our own ships while india almost can't make anything. Its Dehli-Class DDG is at least one generation behind our new DDGs with VLS and Aegis-equivalent air defense system.

I am not even gonna mention the steath fast attack boats, which has been discussed in a different thread.

What has india made?????????

www.wforum.com...
www.sinodefence.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...

4) In terms of airforce, both are comparable in technology while we have a huge numerical advantage and we produced huge numbers of planes such as upgraded J7s, J8 etc and the new J-10 is under mass production and is exporting the FC-1 while india doesn't make ANY, ANY aircrafts and their air force is called "flying coffin". Please don't even mention LCA, which has failed a test in Russia just recently and they crashed 3 Mirage 2000 last month along. (yes, I can provide all the source you need on these)

www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.sinodefence.com...
www.wforum.com...
www.wforum.com...

We have our own trainer FTC-2000 while indian airforce's training is so bad that they are called the flying coffin and they had to buy some british trainer recently. See again, they can't make crap.
www.wforum.com...

5)In 1962, we beat them so bad that it is still hurting and some indians think they can take Tibet?????? lolololol, they can't even control Kashmir and China still occupies a piece of Kashmir (bet you didn't know that). Do you hear any bombings and things of that nature in China while we have insurgents in Xinjiang (mulism and connected with Al Quada) also?

The PLA has fought against the US-led UN forces successfully in Korea driving them back from the china-korea border back to the 38th parallel where the war stopped till today. (the casualty of China+n. Korea is roughly equal to the casualty of UN forces+S. Korea). We have skirmished with USSR, Vietnam and entirely and thoroughly obliterated the Indians in 1962. Not to mention, we had a huge hand in Vietnam as well.

Who besides the pakistanis and Chinese have the indians fought?

6) here is a link for security ranking by INDIANS, not by chinese.

www.nsrf.com...

7) please don't even compare our armies, missiles/space forces. Entirely two different leagues and please spare me of my typing.

8) Our GDP is more than 2X that of india in gross terms, PPP and on a per capita basis and industrial and manufacturing capabilities is on the scale of several times that of india. Our foreign reserve is aournd $500 bil vs. india's $130 bil.

China is the world's No. 1 steel maker (over 200 million tons in 2003) while India is the 8th with (with only 36 million tons of production in 2003-2004). China is the worlds No. 3 ship maker and I have no idea where india ranks!!!

China's soverign rating or country rating by Standard & Poor's is BBB+, which is investment grade while India's soverign rating is BB+ which is non-investment grade or junk status.

9) China's military budge ($50 bil) is more than 3X that of india ($15 bil) while both countries have similar purchasing power. And most western countries suspect that China spends more than this and india buys disproportinately more weapons from other countries than China by a huge margin.
www.cdi.org...
www.globalissues.org...

10) China doesn't have GPS system

Well you know what, we do... It's called Beidou and completed last year.
www.cctv.com...

11) China commits human rights violation while india is a peace-loving people.

Well why don't you take a look at these links and tell me what you think
www.mediamonitors.net...
indianterrorism.bravepages.com...
news.nationalgeographic.com...
www.sikhlionz.com...
indianterrorism.bravepages.com...
dalitstan.org...
www.geocities.com...
freespeech.org...
www.geocities.com...
www.newsmax.com...

12) Bottom line: China is making proportionally more and more indigenously while India is still buying most of its stuff from overseas while we outspend them 3 to 1. This only means India is being left behind by China further and further just like our economies. Our eoconomy grows faster than india's and in a decade, Chinese economy will be about 3X that of India while their population will surpass that of China in the next decade, without any revaluation of our currency which is most likely to happen in the next decade. Do you know what that means?????

Originally posted by Hawkssss
Not only are they the best in boasting and bluffing, they are also the best in discrimination of the so-called untouchable, dalits. BTW, do you know they don't have toilet papers? lol What a bunch of basket case.

Last one dbates.

I can't let something this ignorant go. Deny Ignorance!!

Do you know that in certain place you get the option of not using toilet paper, because water cleans much better?

I didn't think so.

We are discriminating?

Do you know who the President is? Mr. Abdul Kalam, yes a muslim, that is righ folks, a muslim is the president of the hindu majority country, the most honorable post you can get in India. He didn't run for it, he was choosen for it, meaning those "discriminatory people" gave it to him.

Do you know who is second in command of India? Sonia Gandhi. Not only she is Italian, she is also a woman. When was the last time I saw this happen in China?

Ever heard of Indira Gandhi? Yeah, she was a woman too, first woman prime minister. Hell we even beat the U.S. in being non-sexist.

And do you know who the chief minister of Tamil Nadu is? A woman, albeit a crazy one, but still a woman.

Indian parents don't get a signed contract from their parents saying that the sons and daughters will take care of the parents when they are too old. We do it automatically, unlike some countries.

Alright people, back to weapons discussions.

Surf

hahah,

Let me have the last say before we go back to weapons system which you indians never bothered to touch.

The dalits are still openly discriminated in india and that's why you have a mass conversion into Christianity, muslim and buddism. These are facts and my indian colleagues (not surprisingly they are all bhramins) say they will never marry a lower caste. And you say it doesn't exist any more.
Having female leaders, muslim president, and foreign women ruling over your country is a laudable achivements. However, these do not wash away the discrimination and persecution of dalits (untouchables), muslims, christians, and buddisms by hindus, which are well documented and can provide you sources if you are not aware of these facts.
www.ambedkar.org...

As for not using toilet paper. I don't think it is because water cleans better. In fact, don't you use your hands to do the job first then rinse your hands. And being a backward country where most people can't even get 3 meals a day, how can they have water and soap to clean up their left hands?

Now you can contribute to the military discussion.

Thank you!

Actually now that you mentioned it Daedalus, I am not keeping quiet about IAF pilots being better than PLAAF pilots. In fact, we don't know who is better than who because war between the two countries didn't start yet. You can imagine all you want of your pilots kicking 400 Su's ass with 40 su's, I won't stop you but man the relation between technological advantage and numerical advantage is like a graph in the form of Y=mx+b, it is extrmely similar, graph two lines and see the intercepts. But 40 upgraded Su's will not kill 400 Su, be sure of that. I don't think your pilots are any better than our pilots. One who has not experienced war and only practiced through training sessions is like watching a person operate a air plane through a VHR and when they actually are needed to operate the airplane they really know nothing.

PS: ProteinX is an embarrassment to ever bearing the name of Chinese. Patriotism is good but remember deny ignorance.

Originally posted by Hawkssss
The dalits are still openly discriminated in india and that's why you have a mass conversion into Christianity, muslim and buddism. However, these do not wash away the discrimination and persecution of dalits (untouchables), muslims, christians, and buddisms by hindus, which are well documented and can provide you sources if you are not aware of these facts.
www.ambedkar.org...

As for not using toilet paper. I don't think it is because water cleans better. In fact, don't you use your hands to do the job first then rinse your hands. And being a backward country where most people can't even get 3 meals a day, how can they have water and soap to clean up their left hands?
Thank you!

Alright this is the last one. Unless our ignorant anti-indian chinese friend here attacks India again, because he found some useless websiste.

Wow, let us stop there. We have mass conversions because we discriminate other dalits?

I suppose your understanding of India comes from websites alone, no wonder it is so baised.

We have affirmitive actions in India for those lower caste people, just because some of your friends say they won't marry a lower caste, it doesn't mean the entire country is that way. It just means you have bad friends.

Come to India and you will get to hear about all the intermarriages that occur these days.

You know you can't just get rid of the untouchable system that has been there for more than centuries. Naturally there are going to be discrimination, at least they are not as bad as they used to be.

Backward country? If those damn brits stayed where their stinking asses belonged, we wouldn't be such a backward country.

Ever heard of rivers, you don't have to industrialized to get water you know, (you don't even know that, but I am still arguing with you, I must be going crazy) that is enough to clean your hands. Indians have been donig that for centuries now, and they haven't died off yet, so I guess it is not all bad.

And I suppose chinese have had paper towels right from the day they grouped together to form villages.

Surf

well, didn't I tell you my indian colleauges (invariable all brahmins) told me they will never consider marrying a person from a lower caste. So this tells you I have in person experience. BTW, the Internet has an array of information on this issue so keep denying it.

Water my buttt. Are you saying all indians do their job next to a river???? lol And then you use the water from the rivers to rinse your hands??? That doesn't sound so frigging clean to me. Are you admitting still using left hands to wipe your arse?

Don't blame the brits, if not for them India would still be a divided country and no railroads and roads which were built by the brits. Also, more importantly, many of your industries are able to strive partially because you all speak English due to british colonization

Now we can carry on.

Originally posted by Hawkssss
Also, more importantly, many of your industries are able to strive partially because you all speak English due to british colonization

according to one Indian guy in this forum:

1> they are very proud of being colonized.------for 400 years!!!!
2> They think they finally made their independence because they begged enough. (to support Taiwan beg enough can get independence from China mainland)

Gez.. Indians just make themselves being discriminated..... that is the case.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by proteinx]

[edit on 29-11-2004 by proteinx]

Well here is an article on the Caste war and wonton killing and persecution of the dalits in India by Hindustan Times. Please don't tell me Hindustan Times is a commie mouth piece, LOL

Let me see how you spin this one. lol

www.hindustantimes.com...

"Millions of our citizens even today do not have the right to draw water from village wells, simply because they are low caste. In several places of free India, low caste people even today do not have the right to use any footwear. Women are not allowed to cover the upper part of their body. Children can be admitted to schools only if the upper castes in the area permit. Millions are prevented from voting. Dalits are lynched, for reasons such as marrying outside of their caste or skinning dead animals. "

Originally posted by Hawkssss
well, didn't I tell you my indian colleauges (invariable all brahmins) told me they will never consider marrying a person from a lower caste. So this tells you I have in person experience. BTW, the Internet has an array of information on this issue so keep denying it.

Water my buttt. Are you saying all indians do their job next to a river???? lol And then you use the water from the rivers to rinse your hands??? That doesn't sound so frigging clean to me. Are you admitting still using left hands to wipe your arse?

Don't blame the brits, if not for them India would still be a divided country and no railroads and roads which were built by the brits. Also, more importantly, many of your industries are able to strive partially because you all speak English due to british colonization

Now we can carry on.

Yeah you did tell me you had brahim friends. yes that is a whole lot of personal experience. How many friends do you have? 100, 200?

I lived there!

Internet has a wide array of info and disinfo, i see you are buying the disinfo.

Yep, indian used to do that. Yep. No, specialized. water pipes in my home do that job for me. (i see what you are thinking, it is not that, i don't pipes to clean it, the water from the pipes do that for me).

So were you guys born with paper towel? You had paper towels 1000 years ago? For godsake you guys didn't even take bath everyday, not even every month which is why you guys invented perfume.

ok, i won't blame the brits for enslaving us for 200 years, killing thousands of them, it is not their fault that one of their general fired into group of unarmed protestors, woman and kids included, killing most of them and it is not their fault that muslims and hindus are still seperated till this day is it. Right? It is our own fault we embraced non-violence and all those other bad things.

Like it is unified now? Guess what buddy. Pak used to be part of India. I suppose railways and roads make up for all those lost lives?

Don't look at me mods, he is making me argue.

Surf

Why not, you are making me aruge with you too. It takes two hands to make a clap, don't you know that.

Ok, we can forget about the left hand stuff, that's just for fun. We are indeed the first country to invent toilet paper. So you are saying we don't showers every day. Do you indians take shower every day??? BTW, China has a much higher standard of living than india so I wonder where your no shower crap is from.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now, tell me a bit more about the dalits.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by Hawkssss]

Hawksss...

When a post has been discredited don't just repeat it ad-nauseum, it shows true ignorance. Worse, within a single paragraph you say India makes no aircraft and then acknowledge the existence of the LCA.

You continue to talk about the dalits, when the rest of the world knows them as Untouchables, perhaps that is the extent of your knowledge. Perhaps you repeat the D word in an attempt to impress people.

I notice that you didn't, or couldn't, respond to my other questions.

Your one-track mind impresses me greatly.

China:More than 10,000 tanks and 5,000 Armored personell carriers,2.5 million man army,330,000 pilots flying more than 3500 aircraft,700 helos,more than 50 submarines,29 destroyers with plenty of fast attack crafts.(www.sinodefense.com)


India:980,000 active troops,3700+ tanks,2500 personell carries,683 Combat air including trainers and 282 helicopters,2 rather old carriers,11 destroyers,18 frigates,25 corvettes and 45 submarines(www.bharat-rakshak.com)

Is India willing to risk all this fighting against China just for Tibet?I don't think so.India can stand up against China?Numbers do matter in modern warfare,Can the UK stand up to Russia?Answer is no.

You know Im starting to see the same people over and over again making OFF TOPIC posts and engaging a a multinational pissing contest. If this keeps up, more warns will be issued.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC AND CUT OUT THE ATTACKS>

Thank You
FredT

^^I don't attend the forum for a cpl of days and then profanities continue...
..
You know what FredT either you slap a warning on anyone who divulges off weapons immediately or not talk about the diverging bit at all!!
Beacause its kind of hard to shut up when people start talking about toilet paper!!
Even non-indian posters like surfsup find it unnecessarily offending..
and calling someone a twit is far less offensive than commenting on one's excreting methods!!!

Back to weaponry..COWlan we've been over this before...it will never be 40 Su-30 MKIs (which are better than the MKKs btw) vs 400MKKs..
The chinese will never mobilize the entire Su-fleet....too many aggresors on the eastern coastline...even Russia isn't so friendly...
On the other hand India just has to worry about Pakistan for which it does not need Su-30's...
I agree that no one knows how good chinese pilots are but with that arguement you could end up at "PLAAF pilots being the best in the world" !!
We've trained with the USAF,RAF,CCCP AF, French AF and other small timers like singapore(RSAF), and south african AF.Even the PAF is pretty good and we've fought two wars with them!!...We've been out there with the best..Unfortunately the only chinese AF display has been with the EP3 orion incident which even you must agree was pretty shameful..and that waas definitely pilot error...
I n North Korea and Vietnam.. I don't know which AF was victorious...was it the chinese?And im only talking AF not ground war...
Check the aircraft forum...IAF is rumored to be the most skilled in mountainous combat with Siachen and all....The NorthEAstern sector has at least 5 to 6 fwd AF bases just for china...The nearest chinese AF base is Chengdu..Air re-fueling will be a necessity for the PLAAF...Give me info on PLAAF air-refueling capabilities and experience, Su-30 MKI's have practised air re-fueling which extend flight time up to 10 hrs!!Mirage 2000s have flown to South Africa for chriss sakes!!
Lets talk some weaponry here please..and Hawksss PLEASE stop givnig links to the same sites again and again, your, wasting ATS BW!!I want to hear thetre warfare not trumpeting sites....

Also answering W4rlrd not India will never invade tibet by itself..IT does NOT WANT TO LIBERATE TIBET okay? There i've said it..this is a hypothetical scenario which involves china moving into Nepal..which it is covertly doing with the maoists as we speak..In fact the Nepalese chief of army staff was in Pune today to witness the NDA passing out parade and to negotiate futher military assistance from India to repel the 'increasing maoist' threat...Hence the scenario I depict is purely India acting to Nepal's fall which will obviuosly progress into Tibet...India will not stop at liberating Nepal..Now I've assured all chicoms that India will not attak tibet unprovoked..Can you do the same about china's intentions towards Nepal?? If any chicom can then this thread ends HRE NOW..because this war will never happen!!
Im waiting for an answer...

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
China:More than 10,000 tanks and 5,000 Armored personell carriers,2.5 million man army,330,000 pilots flying more than 3500 aircraft,700 helos,more than 50 submarines,29 destroyers with plenty of fast attack crafts.(www.sinodefense.com)


India:980,000 active troops,3700+ tanks,2500 personell carries,683 Combat air including trainers and 282 helicopters,2 rather old carriers,11 destroyers,18 frigates,25 corvettes and 45 submarines(www.bharat-rakshak.com)

Is India willing to risk all this fighting against China just for Tibet?I don't think so.India can stand up against China?Numbers do matter in modern warfare,Can the UK stand up to Russia?Answer is no.

10,000 tanks china has!!
And 330,000 pilots??
700 helis??

And India has 45 submarines??

I think both sites have GREATLY exxagerated nos...maybe you should get info about both from an american or european or russian site...

About the Su-30s,i thought i'll bring it up,The Su-30MKKs were meant for anti ship and as a fighter-bomber,not as an aerial supremacy fighter like the MKI,so you cannot compare those two going one on one,likewise for anti-ship or bombing capabilities the MKK would win.It seems like I am the only Chinese/Indian person not to get warned