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You think you know the Second Secret of Fatima?

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posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Mother of God is one of the most often used titles of Mary in the Eastern Orthodox Churches (who have equal apostolic succession as the Catholic Church of Rome). Jesus is God, therefore His Mother is the mother of God. It is one of the earliest dogmas of the Christian Church, at that time still one not divided. I write that for clarity, not to enter in theological dispute with anyone who has difficulties to accept the unique role of Mary in the salvation of Jesus, in any of her titles.

Let say again: Mary is not ET and she does not need UFO to come. She is resurrected in body as Her Son. That is what the Christian Churches believe.

Mary could however tell Her children on Earth about other children of God elsewhere in galaxy, and their roles in God's plan. The Earth might become the missionary to them, as the first Christians -Jews became missionaries to then-pagan planet. Also She might have warned of negative ET who come to Earth. All of that is my suggestion. The secular leaking of the ET info, including that of meetings between ET and president Eisenhower, in the presence of cardinal of Los Angeles McIntyre, come to tell us volumes of what has been really hidden for centuries may be. Or at least since 1940s




posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by 2012newstart
Mother of God is one of the most often used titles of Mary in the Eastern Orthodox Churches (who have equal apostolic succession as the Catholic Church of Rome). Jesus is God, therefore His Mother is the mother of God. It is one of the earliest dogmas of the Christian Church, at that time still one not divided. I write that for clarity, not to enter in theological dispute with anyone who has difficulties to accept the unique role of Mary in the salvation of Jesus, in any of her titles.

Let say again: Mary is not ET and she does not need UFO to come. She is resurrected in body as Her Son. That is what the Christian Churches believe.

Mary could however tell Her children on Earth about other children of God elsewhere in galaxy, and their roles in God's plan. The Earth might become the missionary to them, as the first Christians -Jews became missionaries to then-pagan planet. Also She might have warned of negative ET who come to Earth. All of that is my suggestion. The secular leaking of the ET info, including that of meetings between ET and president Eisenhower, in the presence of cardinal of Los Angeles McIntyre, come to tell us volumes of what has been really hidden for centuries may be. Or at least since 1940s



Mary is revered by roman descendents just like other gods were in that period. They even wore laurels as halos in defiance of the christ. The egotism of roman and other rulers of that period should turn you away from believing that they were christians.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Leaks say all popes since Pius XII were informed of, and even some received ET messengers inside the Vatican. Notorious is the case with John XXIII and George Adamski. The major powers know it. We don't know it. Today thanks to Internet much is leaked to the large public. We have to discern, but first we have to Inform ourselves
edit on 3-9-2012 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by HamrHeed
So mary birthed god?

Jesus is God incarnate. Mary gave birth to Jesus. She was his mother. She's the mother of God. That doesn't mean she generated his soul any more than your parents generated yours. It means she was the mother of Jesus who was God. That's it.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 05:24 AM
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Russian children pop band sings of total darkness on Earth www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by jeantherapy
Here's the real secret... the children had eaten diseased rye without anyone's knowledge. This is just as likely as the widely accepted story.

OK, I can go with that.

OR...

The imagined Mary bore a fictional Jesus during a fabled labour and...

I like mine better.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Despite the thread diverts to the role of Mary, that many have difficulties to accept it as the catholics (and orthodox) do, please let me turn the topic back to
WHAT HAPPENS WITH FATIMA MESSAGE?

No matter that the devote catholics here are minority, this is a forum that has been read by more intellectual people, including the catholics. It IS a time in the 2012 landmark year the catholics to demand the release of the full text of a secret, that according to Lucia's words had to be released in 1960! Shall we follow Our Lady's demands made in Fatima, or shall we pretend to following them, and actually sidelining them? Or we just don't believe there is a real apparition and real demand from Heaven? When I say we I understand the devote catholics, including the clergy. They have problem with Medjugorje and a number of newer apparitions, be they true or false. How about a proven and stamped apparition by the church?
HOW LONG SHALL WE WAIT FOR THE RELEASE, that will help the coming of the Era of Peace called under different names? Is the consecration of Russia valid, and if we do not see full conversion, what are the bishops waiting for? Atomic war may be?



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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When someone reads John Paul II's words about the Third Secret before its official" release " in 2000, with all the details of millions to die from one moment to another, and no need to frighten the population, one feels uncomfortable when the same pope years later already ill, together with his aides, will release a completely different text of a VISION and not the part of the message that is known to be missing in the text labelled as "Second Secret". I don;t say the vision of persecution is false. I reiterate what everywhere is already a public knowledge, that that vision has nothing to do with the actual text given on the same day as the First and Second Secret (July 13, 1917 I think).
OK now pope John Paul II is blessed, hope he prays for that from heaven. Now we have a new pope (already 7 years) that has the apparent duty to continue what the blessed John Paul II could not do. I do not discuss why, who stopped him, and so on. Let make the new beginning. It is kind of inconvenient for the billions who may die tomorrow in 2012, or any other year. No excuses will matter later. If something is said to be released in 1960 and is not by a number of popes, with the knowledge of even greater number of cardinals, (while at the same time all prove this is a true apparition and secret), you start thinking they indeed hide something very important. Much too important than the already "passed" persecution of communism in 20th century. May be nothing to do with persecution at all. May be something to do with all of the people on Earth, with falling sun, and so on, and so forth. it is a shame that more people aren't talking about that in the era of internet and democracy, free speech! Not the communists are guilty today, of what John Paul II said that "certain powers" would have taken advantage if the secret is released. Pardon me? Then what is waited for in the absence of USSR? Another monster to become reality? (and here you may speculate again what is hidden - Caliphate rise, antichrist, or ET be they good or very evil). Tomorrow we will finally face the truth, with or without pre-knowledge from the church leaders today, Pity and shame!



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by HamrHeed
So mary birthed god?

Jesus is God incarnate. Mary gave birth to Jesus. She was his mother. She's the mother of God. That doesn't mean she generated his soul any more than your parents generated yours. It means she was the mother of Jesus who was God. That's it.


This is where I can't understand the catholic belief, and I was lead to the Christ by a catholic in the first place .
Wouldn't Mary be the mother of the son, not the mother of god?



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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I will challenge people like The Third Eagle who write here under different names, to come and discuss these hot topics. We all know the secret part is missing. Then what? Is Russia the beast of revelation? How could it be if Russia is promised to convert? The beast doesn't convert.

Then, do we have another player entering into the game, after USSR collapse? Like a new Caliphate? Or someone else?

2 Esdras 15:29 "Where the nations of the dragons of Arabia" ..., and of "their own star" referring most probably to extraterrestrial intervention (couldn't understand if it is the same dragons or someone else). Either way, 2 Esdras is a book of the Bible included in the Latin Vulgate, and included in the first edition of King James. Today it is excluded. You can find it upon the click online. How would it be discussed the image of the eagle with 3 heads corresponding to the 4th beast of Daniel, as archangel Uriel explained to Esdras? We don't know. Because no one tells us. No one wants us to know it exists as a text.

And if we are simply not in that time yet, isn't it better we know exactly what is coming, and not feed fears with speculation? What worse can happen that it is better we don't know it?

"Tomorrow", in all likelihood the extraterrestrials whose presence on earth is all but officially announced, will show up. It was expected in December 2009 when the spiral in Norway appeared. 2012 is just the perfect year predicted by "Mayans and a dozen of other civilizations" as the new beginning. Where we are with our catholic prophecies? Nowhere in the middle of the road, absolutely not prepared to deal with a fast changing world that knows more than the Galileo planetary model, for ex. billions of new stars that in all logic should be populated? Will we call them galactic brothers or devils incarnate? Is this the big secret secret of Fatima and other apparitions? Yes or no, we should know the truth.

The generations will not be as merciful in their memories and judgment, as our generation generally is, inclined to forgive everything that happened in history due to circumstances. Let not be more precise than that of what happened in history, because we know of many not glorious pages. If our grandchildren have to evaluate our current judgments, at a new place on a new planet after the doom of this one, they won't be very merciful to the people who deluded their grandfathers with sagas to remain to die. Actually the survivors grandchildren will be those whose grandparents chose not to obey the mainstream. Thanks so much, but we have to act in view of the generations to come. We cannot think only of ourselves as spirits who expect their meeting with the Lord in a world that ends anyway, because it is the End Time. Too good to be true!



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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I would say a brief comment for the infamous radio interview of Tom Horn and Steve Quaile about the book Petrus Romanus. They explain in a pretty plain language some caller's questions how Fatima doesn't matter because it is false. The say that God uses unsaved souls as the Babylonian king Nabucodonosor, to relay one of the most important prophecies of the End Times. Similarly, no matter if Fatima is true or not, it is believed to be true by the catholic hierarchy. As St Malachy prophecy of the popes is believed to be true. And even if it is self-fulfilled, it is fufilled for a number of popes. No matter who his real author is. I'd be glad to discuss these things with people like Tom Horn, although they might be unavailable. I do not agree with their conclusions of the last pope being the antichrist. I do not think we are in that time at all. The reason I write all of that about the book Petrus Romanus, (besides to say I do not agree with its conclusions) is to show the readers that it is not necessary for them to believe Fatima is true, in order to consider it as important with practical consequences for their lives.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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I think it is fair to give the interview too. I do not agree with much said, but I highly respect the speakers.

And I almost want to reply to some posters here who primarily question the Mary's role in principle if there is such a role in their views, and not the prophecy itself. I want to reply with the words of Steve Quayle, that they may be still don't get it. It doesn't matter if it is true, it matters that the Catholic Church hierarchy made it the most important secret in the last century, approved the apparitions and blessed the children seers. So it matters, for the events to come. We are talking about highly knowledgeable people behind all that who know many more secrets than , I am sorry" many of us me included. So if they are frightened by that to speak, it should be something more important than all asteroids NASA tries to catch in telescopes.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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www.fatima.org...
Pope John Paul II
in Fulda, Germany (1980)

The October 1981 issue of the German magazine Stimme des Glaubens reported on a discussion that Pope John Paul II had with a select group of German Catholics, in November of 1980. The following is a verbatim report of the discussion:1

Text of the Published Report

The Holy Father was asked, "What about the Third Secret of Fatima? Should it not have already been published by 1960?"

Pope John Paul II replied: "Given the seriousness of the contents, my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves.

"On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this: if there is a message in which it is written that the oceans will flood whole areas of the earth, and that from one moment to the next millions of people will perish, truly the publication of such a message is no longer something to be so much desired."

The Pope continued: "Many wish to know simply from curiosity and a taste for the sensational, but they forget that knowledge also implies responsibility. They only seek the satisfaction of their curiosity, and that is dangerous if at the same time they are not disposed to do something, and if they are convinced that it is impossible to do anything against evil."

At this point the Pope grasped a Rosary and said: "Here is the remedy against this evil. Pray, pray, and ask for nothing more. Leave everything else to the Mother of God."

The Holy Father was then asked: "What is going to happen to the Church?"

He answered: "We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ … With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise. We must be strong and prepared, and trust in Christ and His Mother, and be very, very assiduous in praying the Rosary."



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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commenting the above statement of the now blessed John Paul, first of all we see that at least one part of the 3rd secret has to do with oceans flooding large areas and the death of millions. While another part has to do with suffering of the church itself. Perhaps that part is the officially published vision in 2000.

If so, seems the church leaders lead the church towards a martyrdom, and they know where it goes that road.

I am sorry but I refuse to go that way. They may think it is good for the christians to die in martyrdom. But I think it is good there to be Christians in the post-catclysmic world to continue the life and to continue the Christianity itself. May be also on other planets.

I say that because seems there will be given a choice (personal conclusion made on variety of other apparitions). There will be a choice for the common people should they wait or otherwise follow the way of physical death, or should they choose the physical salvation - be it on this planet underground or on another planet.
edit on 13-9-2012 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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I guess the Christendom span thru 10+ centuries wouldn't be possible if the persecutions from the early 3 centuries were preserved in the Middle Eages.

Or why didn't the Christendom surrender to the Caliphate and choose to become mass martyrs?
This is absurd isn't it?

The spread of Christianity through the planet in the era of discovery and later colonization was possible only because of the better lifestyle, higher quality industrial goods (as guns and ships) and higher culture (so to speak). But not because of offered martyrdom in this life to obtain the next one.

Today we are infront of a similar choice. We have to continue the life in real terms. We have to reject the attempts of a mass martyrdom in any ideas, that some people apparently want us to be thrown into, in the name of real or fake words of Virgin Mary.

Not only to speak against abortions, while making the normal life impossible. Even in the so called developed West.

But to choose the path that will lead to the survival of the human race. Be it underground cities prepared for that purpose, be it Mars secret colonies, be it another farther planet. Let face the truth in 2012! We don't have much time - less than 97 days left. We don't need preacher or prophet for that either. We want to live! We want our children to live even better lives than us! We are UNWILLING to sacrifice them in any mass martyrdom promised by any apparition or by any doomsday preacher!

I will have to look for a better explanation of Christianity that promises life. And I will do that once saved in the secure locations. I will not be shy to choose another explanation than today's doom-death expectation covered with holy phrases. Enough of that
I am sure there will be a better explanation of the core of Christianity, such as the meaning of Jesus Christ's ONLY Sacrifice, ONE AND FOR ALL, and not the need to repeat it in our daily lives to the point of making them a continuous suffering via various ways for most part of it. (even without the doom predictions). I am sure there are better ways that offer MORE AND REAL LOVE OF GOD as intended.

Where are the Books of the Gospel and Bible? I am talking about the hidden books. We know well what we have today are books written in 3rd century, more or less. There weren't Bibles packed as ours in 1-2 centuries. What we have is a Roman-Greek New Testament. I don't say it is not true. But the doubt of hidden texts is quite reasonable. As for ex. Enoch, 2 Esdras, which are known well to exist and even included in some Bibles. How about other texts never published? I will not guess what they might contain. But I guess that the experiment of ...how many centuries, is wrong. Its fruit is wrong. And you will know them by their fruits. No amount of penance or sacrifice (as they want us to do without having the historical blame for it!) will ever fix it. It has to start all over again, from the true fount. Perhaps someone preserved it. If not on planet Earth, then may be the extraterrestrials have preserved the real words of Lord Jesus with their superb tech that existed hundreds of thousands years before the humans come on earth. Whatever it is, it will be better than what we have today. And we will be able to live more happily till the real End Times when they finally come. Because today we don;t have major elements of them - such as a restored Jerusalem temple, or the spread of Gospel throughout the Universe. Or Cosmos, in Mark 16 in Greek. We have been lied thru centuries, and they continue to lie us today under various apparitions, true but changed, or outright falsity. Or protestant preachers who see the antichrist everywhere without the above signs.
edit on 14-9-2012 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:48 AM
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Pray for the Extraterrestrials to accept and know God's love and God's Son sooner!
Pray they come to physically save us sooner, from what Peter describes second fire destruction of earth.
I hope at least one bishop with true apostolic succession reads that, and will be over there to continue the remnant church of Jesus! Or down under in the refuges-underground cities may be. Whatever remains have no chance.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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you who understand what I am talking about, may be not exactly catholics, or may be exactly hard-line catholics who know in detail Fatima controversy. You should admit that the current official course is a course of collision. A sought one. Whether it will be christian-muslim or another type (too late for communist-catholic), I don't know. I am not a prophet. But the sought and announced martyrdom in the carefully screened portion of Fatima-3 is not something to be offered to the large masses of 1.2 bln and to be accepted. If someone wants to sacrifice his life, let he do so. But not to offer it as 21st century remedy for sins made long ago and errors in the church that we all see and no one wants to fix them.

Well, whatever event is scheduled for 2012 will fix it all. Hope so. If not, the end-time scenario (false) will be played out in early 2013. From the catholic side there will be given a big martyrdom to "fulfill Fatima". Do not misunderstand me. I did not say OL did not show that vision with the cross and the pope, bishops, lay people, to the three children in 1917. But then we have the different handwritings of two different Lucia's, the different length of the pages, the DATE that reportedly is inside the Third secret and is not in the Vision, and so on...Some reach to doubt the real ID of the old Lucia saying she is not the same as the young Lucia. I don't know that much. From purely what is well known online, and that is multiple texts some of which I posted, it is clear there is a careful SCREENING of info that allegedly comes from OL. For what purpose the idea of a (final) martyrdom would be made public in 2000 and not the rest of the text that well may give other way out? Even if it is believed the date to have passed (before the end of 20th century). That's why I say that the martyrdom path has been chosen by certain leaders in exchange of the other path.

How about a rescue way out of the planet, given by extraterrestrials that reportedly even visited the Vatican (or their representatives) since the first contact with cardinal McIntyre and president Eisenhower? How about new pills that threat the modern illness of cancer? How about prolonging life to what God gave as a lifespan to Abraham? Why not, is that all sin? Or we have to be always in misery and sick, to acknowledge that we have to repent and to seek God thru the church representatives? What distorted view of God who is Love. I guess not that many non-Christians will accept it. And they do not, as the recent events show. The 2.2 bln Christians are already inside, born and raised. They don't think of all of that when they visit Sunday church, rather they pray for their immediate needs, at best. Tomorrow they will be played out an antichrist theater. If not killed by planetary chastisement first. While there is a way out. Some will find it.



edit on 14-9-2012 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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Vatican visited by ET and in contact since the time of Pius XII, says command sergeant major Robert Dean with cosmic top clearance.
In 2009 he showed declassified NASA Apollo 13 photographs of miles long ships. You can find that vid easily, I will not post it because it goes out of topic. Actually it is NOT out of topic, because Our Lady may have addressed these issues in Fatima!
The silence of the popes on Fatima and other issues is mind-shattering! We are not in 15th century anymore



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by 2012newstart
Vatican visited by ET and in contact since the time of Pius XII, says command sergeant major Robert Dean with cosmic top clearance.


What is "cosmic top clearance", pray tell? And it's tough to take a guy seriously who doesn't even know the name of the Archbishop of Los Angeles at that time (it was James McIntyre, not Mike.) He claims to know an awful lot about the specifics of that guy, but doesn't get his first name right?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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this is my last post in this thread. I rang the bell for all who hear and it is fairly enough for a free work

Buchenwald Alarm Bell, Neposedi, Victory Day May 9, 2001





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