My solution to the Israeli - Palestinian conflict.

I have contemplated long and hard over posting this because of the fierce divisions that are clearly manifest on this subject - even right here on ATS - in fact the perpetual arguments over there in the Middle East are reflected right here.

The final nail in the coffin for me was yesterdays thread by respected ATS member "Corruption Exposed" about the 13 year old boy used as a human shield - now even that particular title, to some, was misleading - that is how passionate this debate is. Other very well respected ATS members responded to CE's post and the tennis match began.......again.

From the outset I wish to make it quite clear that I do NOT want any responses that perpetrate further hatred towards one side or the other - I am beyond that and quite frankly and with all due respect it is irrelevant - that comment right there will hopefully make sense very shortly. If you wish to go there then I will respectfully request that you start your own thread - for it is evident that for every comment & picture showing genuine atrocities on one side there is a comment & picture showing genuine atrocities on the other side.

And therein lies the problem - not being able to see the forest through the "trees" of history & religion.

This thread is about moving forward to a solution - nothing more and nothing less - it is not a blame game posting I am about to make - and I guarantee that upon reading this thread you will not be able to determine which side I favour simply because I favour neither - period. On that basis, I feel quite qualified to offer my solution - and believe you me its a game changer - whether or not we are ready for the challenge is ultimately up to each and every one of us.

Some of you may be familiar with the following solution idea of mine because I posted it in yesterdays aforementioned thread and received no replies but I did get 5 favourable acknowledgements - on page 3 of 5 right in amongst heavy debate I might add - that has encouraged me to plant this seed if you will, in the hope that it can be watered and encouraged to grow to a real workable solution - the solution starts with a single idea but I need the wisdom of ATS's finest to help see it bear the fruit that we all desire...............

One final thing - please, please stick to the solution idea - don't let it spiral back to a blame game for we MUST find a solution to this and politicians on both sides of the debate are agenda driven which, imo, is why a solution has not yet been reached.

(the following is simply a copy/paste of my post from yesterday):-

***Disclaimer: How you respond is your Karma - not mine***

Having read this thread and many others of similar theme, no one is addressing the elephant in the room so I will..........

When my 2 children fight over the possession of something I will take said possession off both of them - irrespective of ownership - I am the father and I teach them to share and to give more than take - period.

Not once, I repeat, NOT ONCE, has this never not worked - 100% full proof way of resolving the issue in my house.

I am the lord and master of my house and I run a tight and well oiled family, with the blessing of my wife - I care not for my childrens excuses as to why each deserves the possession in question - they learn their lesson(s) very very quickly when neither gets it. Guess what happens now - they share and have respect for each other............and they know damn well that if they spiral back into it again I will come down on both, equally, and without pity.

This is the wisdom of Solomon - this is how I was raised.

We, all of us, who are not there in this most cherished of lands are the lords and masters of this house we are currently discussing - we ALL are because this situation is effecting all of us in one way, shape or form.

Neither side in this perpetual situation deserves the possession they are so dedicated to preserving.

As lords and masters - the way to resolve the situation is simple - take it away from both of them and if that means a paradigm shift for history to record then so be it. - they will eventually learn to share and not fight - for only then will they understand the value of the possession.

Now............easier said than done right?......yes that is a no-brainer.

Do we as masters have the means and resources?............you bet your bloody bottom dollar that we do.

How is this achieved?

(Hint: Enron / China builds huge ghost cities in South Africa / Crooked Billionaire bank accounts and lifestyles / refer ATS website for further examples where vast amounts of money and resources are wasted to favour the few at the expense of the many)

Paradigm shifting stuff is needed.................or we just keep going and going and going..............

And of course prove to me one side deserves it more than the other WITHOUT using history & religion - those two excuses flew out the door long long ago and neither has the right to now use them.

I'll repeat " I care not for (insert which ever side suits you) excuses as to why each deserves the possession in question - they learn their lesson(s) very very quickly when neither gets it"

Since I can remember this has always seemed like the only way to resolve this issue that we all feel so passionate about.

In adopting this strategy - the logistics will fall into place.

End of rant...flame away

Although I appreciate you emotionally seperating your self from the issue, do you really think the people of either nation could?

Share and share alike, that would amke sense if they had each been there since the begginning, but they were'nt, the Jews well and truely got their asses kicked throughout history, they didn't win their ownership to the land, like most othe nations.

Instead through war and genocide, and evil elites, they came and gatecrashed in the not too distant past.

The solution is the dissolvement of Zionists.

The English stole Northern Ireland too, hey, we couldnt fight enough to keep them out (especially since the southerners deserted us), but I know its still in the back of everybodies minds , what we want...

reply to post by Sublimecraft


Maybe you've heard/read this before.

There is no capable solution provided by man.

That's why the Bible tells us that God has to step in.

Man always knew that this would be an issue thousands of years later. It's what God told them.

We just don't know when, but I think the current situation in the Middle East is a pretty good indicator that it gets closer with each day.

reply to post by Sinny

Although I appreciate you emotionally seperating your self from the issue, do you really think the people of either nation could?

No they cannot - this is the reason why we must now all get involved - what is happening over there is filtering down, via foreign policies of world governments, here. Their emotion, and rightly justified, is stopping them from pure peace.
Emotional detachment is the only way I can address this without favouritism, but it does indeed upset me to see innocents holed up and killed in the worlds largest prison as much as it upsets me to see innocents killed by suicide bombs - the innocent loss of life on both sides must stop.

Share and share alike, that would amke sense if they had each been there since the begginning, but they were'nt, the Jews well and truely got their asses kicked throughout history, they didn't win their ownership to the land, like most othe nations.

My daughter was here first - that does not mean I favour her over my son by any means. The fact is that in regards to this topic they are both there in the Middle East now - referencing the past only fuels the fire - each claims ownership - take it off both until they grow up and realise the value of it.

Solomons wisdom is virtually full proof when applied to this situation.

The solution is the dissolvement of Zionists.

If it were that simple then why are 6 Billion being held to ransom by a few thousand (give or take) ?

The blame is on Hitler and Israelis.

Not on Palestinian people who are killed and refuge.

As a matter of fact , judge uses facts to judge justly.

Otherwise it is not a just judging.

It will be an opinion in the air and will be favoring one side while oppressing the other side.

reply to post by Deetermined


Very rarely does God DIRECTLY intervene - he encourages wisdom to do his bidding.

At least that is how I interpret scriptures any way.

reply to post by mideast

From the OP..................

it is not a blame game posting I am about to make

don't let it spiral back to a blame game for we MUST find a solution to this

Please respect that and provide your stance on my thoughts in regards to a solution without using history or religion.

reply to post by Sublimecraft

Please respect that and provide your stance on my thoughts in regards to a solution without using history or religion.

The truth is in the history.

Here is an story.

You are a child. I take your ball.

We go to a judge. And he says "prove you are right without using history"

The truth is underneath the history.

BTW , it is your thread. I respect your opinion.

I wanted to help.

reply to post by Sublimecraft


The Bible makes it very clear that God's wisdom is not the same as our wisdom. In fact, it's our lack of true wisdom that makes it necessary for God to intervene and it says He will.

Why do you think the Bible is full of stories of man failing even after constantly being corrected by God?

We're not capable of correcting ourselves, nor are we capable of staying corrected without the constant presence of God.

History repeats itself because we refuse to learn from our mistakes and we don't make God constant in our lives.

God knows this. God told us this. God will correct it.

reply to post by Sublimecraft

How is this achieved?

(Hint: Enron / China builds huge ghost cities in South Africa / Crooked Billionaire bank accounts and lifestyles / refer ATS website for further examples where vast amounts of money and resources are wasted to favour the few at the expense of the many) Paradigm shifting stuff is needed.................or we just keep going and going and going..............

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

Can you elaborate more on what you think it will take to make this work and your perceived outcome?

reply to post by Sublimecraft


You can't seperate emotion or history from this conflict. It's myred in both. Religion as well.

If we could do that, then a solution would have been found decades ago. Problem is with us trying to find a solution is that we are not them.

No ammount of outside intervention is going to convince Israel to close their prison, and no ammount of outside influence will convince Hamas to stop firing rockets into Israel.

Both of them need to come together, internally and make peace with each other before any real solution can be worked on.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


All of this is absolutely true.

Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, nor Hezbollah have come close to any peace or truces among themselves, no matter how hard they try. They can't even get past themselves to address the Israeli issue.

reply to post by Deetermined


***please bare with me folks I am onboard a ship and the internet connection is woeful tonight***

ON TOPIC.............

My apologies.............my reference to Wisdom was a reference to Solomon (certainly not myself anyway) whom I believe was directly ordained by God........his logic in this situation seems obvious to me.

In regards to Enron etc I am simply pointing out that availability of money and resources are not an issue in totally restructuring this part of the middle east - the 2 state solution is an attempt at Solomons wisdom but I think the prized possession, being Jerusalem and all her surrounding areas that currently make up "Israel" (referring geographical area that was once called Palestine) needs to be re-constructed and both the current entities that claim ownership removed - let those who want to live in peace remain only. - the vetting of which is taken out of the hands of the few and put into the hands of the many.

I really would love to go to Jerusalem and visit the dome of the rock and other places of interest to me - that will not happen in my life time because of the current situation - and that is simply not fair in my book.

Where they go and how they are "removed" is the reason for this post.

Like I said its a paradigm shifting gamer changer of a solution - but that appears to be the only solution.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Both of them need to come together, internally and make peace with each other before any real solution can be worked on.

And as soon as the ratbags are removed on both sides I really do see that happening but until then we must shift gears to make that happen - and agenda driven politicians are not helping - we are part of the solution tenth - all of us. Emotion, history and religion must be dropped to move forward don't you think?

reply to post by Sublimecraft


I'm actually a firm believer that Hitler was influence to persecute the Jews for the formation of Israel..

Special powerfull forces did fund him after all..

Also, I highly doubt it was 6 million, that was one comment made by one man in a court, and seems to have spread like chinese whispers..

Originally posted by Sublimecraft

Emotion, history and religion must be dropped to move forward don't you think?

Unfortunately, this is not realistic.

It's not realistic to think that anyone can be removed either, especially without war.

There is no guaranty that those who claim they want to live in peace really do.

Too many people working behind the scenes in deceit already.

An attempt to remove anyone will only turn into another Syria situation where no one is sure of what's going on or who the driving force behind it is.

reply to post by Sinny


OMG Sinny - I have just made the biggest typo error and I fear it will open a can of worms.

I meant 6 Billion - referring to the planets population being held to ransom by the "zionists"

[big fat swear word]

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Both of them need to come together, internally and make peace with each other before any real solution can be worked on.

And as soon as the ratbags are removed on both sides I really do see that happening but until then we must shift gears to make that happen - and agenda driven politicians are not helping - we are part of the solution tenth - all of us. Emotion, history and religion must be dropped to move forward don't you think?

No I don't.

People who make decisions by ignoring the lessons of history and the emotional ties to any conflict end up causing more harm than good.

Take Africa for example.How much harm have we done with our interventionist policy in those countries?

Listen, I'm all for a solution, but you can't help people who won't first help themselves.

~Tenth

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by Sinny

 

OMG Sinny - I have just made the biggest typo error and I fear it will open a can of worms.

I meant 6 Billion - referring to the planets population being held to ransom by the "zionists"

[big fat swear word]

Aha, LOL, nevermind aye

reply to post by Deetermined

Unfortunately, this is not realistic. It's not realistic to think that anyone can be removed either, especially without war. There is no guaranty that those who claim they want to live in peace really do.

No solution to date has worked so technically those solutions were not realistic either.......but I totally understand your comments.

The removal of persons whom are a hindrance to pure peace may indeed have to be done by force but with todays modern technology we must find an alternative to that perpetual nightmare as well or we are just as guilty and are not offering a real solution.

We are, after all, talking about an area of the planet steeped in history such that total removal of everyone would be akin to genocide - what is the next step after that - well what caused the issue in the first place - In my line of work what caused the problem is where I start so as to find a workable solution.

Can anyone here tell me, in simplistic terms, what event and what entity started the hatred - if we know that then we have a good chance at finding a workable solution, imo.