Darkbake: Digging into my philosophy, an open discussion

Originally posted by vv3vv3vv
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

How come none of them asked "why" the sun was there? That might spark some intelligent debate instead of diluting the beauty already inherent in the sun by trying to measure or judge it as something less than it is.

Good point. Maybe that's what the fourth guy says.

reply to post by vv3vv3vv

On Knowledge: It is important to be willing to accept and create new ideas until they are proven false

Not only do I disagree, I find this idea to be dangerous.

You are mistaken because accumulation of knowledge is only a positive thing

Accumulation and acceptance are two totally different things. Imagine if scientists just accepted that the first rockets launched into space were going to fly, so they put men in every flight. There'd be a lot of dead astronauts! What happened is scientists DIDN'T accept this idea (and wisely so) and waited until there was some level of certainty that those babies would fly.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Accumulation and acceptance are two totally different things. Imagine if scientists just accepted that the first rockets launched into space were going to fly, so they put men in every flight. There'd be a lot of dead astronauts! What happened is scientists DIDN'T accept this idea (and wisely so) and waited until there was some level of certainty that those babies would fly.

You didn't address the difference between knowledge and morality. knowledge about anything, even if it is bad, is a positive (or real) thing that can be used either for good or bad. Morality is understanding how you put that knowledge into action (for good or bad).

Accepting that knowledge IS knowledge, is different from accepting that any knowledge is morally right. There is a way to know the rightness of any action, and it begins with accumulating all the knowledge that life is willing to share with you and directing it with care.

You are now talking about blind acceptance, what you really mean is faith/belief. Of course we shouldn't create false beliefs that aren't based in reality. That would be unnatural and would not create a solid base of understanding that we can build strongly upon.

reply to post by KyrieEleison


I think the "common trap" or "betrayal" that people will experience when they are willing to dig deeper is simply gaining an understanding of the human condition that has taken root in our immorality. I agree with darkblade that we need better present moment awareness of how our actions and thoughts affect the world around us. And the first level that most find when they start peeling back the onion, is the "doom and gloom" and negativity that the new age movement cowers to consider. But only by seeing the darkness for what it really is, can we know enough to bring ourselves completely into the light. If everyone could see clearly the effects that their beliefs are causing, they would instantly stop creating harm, but the snakes of this world bite our feet every time we stop to consider anything. Fortunately the time of revelation or apocalypse (ie revealing) is finally here to show us what our actions have been doing to others. We are just here to pay attention and learn from it.

Originally posted by vv3vv3vv

You didn't address the difference between knowledge and morality. knowledge about anything, even if it is bad, is a positive (or real) thing that can be used either for good or bad. Morality is understanding how you put that knowledge into action (for good or bad).

Sorry, I've lost the point of this. My comments were directed at the OP'S statement of:

It is important to be willing to ***accept*** ... new ideas until they are proven false -

My point had nothing to do with morality, but rather how important it is to doubt new ideas until they are proven true. If we went around believing in every cockamamie idea we'd all be starring in a Jackass movie.

On a grander scale, should we have just accepted Hitler's idea? How about the Vatican's idea that condoms protecting everyone from AIDS is somehow against god. Pat Robertson wishes we would accept his idea that Haiti citizens are being punished for their ancestors making a deal with the devil. Should we have accepted the idea that AIDS was a gay disease?

First and foremost, and for our very survival as a species we MUST doubt EVERYTHING new. Case in point, many pregnant women in the 1950's accepted that Thalidomide was a great drug to alleviate morning sickness. This resulted in 10,000 children born with birth defects.

Thalidomide

ALWAYS doubt the new stuff!

reply to post by jiggerj


Cool, I see that you are suggesting that we base our theories and practices in real information, instead of artificially contrived ideas that don't resonate with an understanding of nature.

But darkbake was trying to say that we need to be able to look at and consider all information before judging it acceptable as truth or knowing it for falseness. And then be willing to do that over and over again.

reply to post by vv3vv3vv


A very valid point.

By refusing to acknowledge that it exists, how can you ever hope to understand it at all?

Similar to the idea that in order to catch a criminal, you have to think like one. It doesn't mean that just by simple exposure you will turn into one yourself, though maybe some are afraid to explore aspects such as this out of fear that it may consume them - and that reveals an entirely new set of issues that should be explored.

There's way too much to respond to without a book, so I'll only respond to this:

So... I think that feminism, at least, actually does not have its own belief system in the traditional sense. I think that feminism is about trying to keep the Yang forces in a manageable state where they are not trying to harass, manipulate, or harm other people who don't agree with their particular perspective.

I did not know until I was at least 40 that there are two distinct branches of feminism.

One, called equity feminism, is not really about men/yang/defense at all; it's simply about asking that women have the same rights as humans. In the 1960s you couldn't even have your own bank account or own a business without a man in many areas. A few decades before that you couldn't vote. Equity feminism, which I would subtitle "for rational people," is something that should be as much supported by men as women, and there are several cultural issues which are quite injust to men at this point in time, and those should be as supported by women as by men for correcting those too.

The other, called gender feminism, is where most of the media (and hence cultural) stereotypes about feminism come from. Essentially a lot of very angsty angry people with daddy issues, primarily middle class white women with a sense of entitlement in my opinion, the often man-hating, strident, Patriarchal Society Keeping Da Little Woman Down crowd is in this group. Unfortunately this very minority but extremely emotional group is the only one in the media, so most people have no idea that this is not what feminism "is."

I had no respect for feminism, having been only exposed to the media version, nor did my own daughter. It wasn't until I discovered a whole world of it that was completely different that the respect I'd always had for the women petitioning for the vote way-back-when finally found its way home to the present.

This is only for the info of anyone on the thread who may be unaware.

Darkbake your theories and philosophies are interesting. The older I get the less sure I get about the deepest philosophies. Every grand idea I've had has been annihilated by experience, including ideas about myself.

On why modern Christianity is failing

I just went to church today for the first time in a while, and while I consider myself a good person, a lot of people in that church were honestly reading the Bible passages without understanding any meaning behind them, or even paying attention.

I just moved back to town after living with some room-mates in Idaho where I had to deal with a shady police department and a high crime rate. I experienced everything from having guns pulled on me, to people coming by our house with brain cancer who had no way to fix it and were dying, one girl's dad shot his head off with a shotgun, the list goes on forever...

I mean it is a situation where it tests your ability to make the right choices 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

So I wrote this:

"It is only through experience and tribulation that the word of God is known. Without testing your faith, how do you even know what your faith is?

Or that you have any at all? If you are put in a situation where you have to actually make decisions using the knowledge you know, and do not take this chance, what good does it do to follow empty rituals and speak words from a book which you do not understand?"

A lot of the passages in the Bible tell stories that are explaining things that make complete sense after someone has had to experience them and discover them for themselves, but they are taken the wrong way, they are taken as a ticket to judge others and act in exactly the wrong way instead of as a story to empathize with and say

"I've been there, oh! I know what this is like! I remember having to make those same decisions, I am so glad that someone else wrote this story so that I can share it with my kids and family."

It's not supposed to be about judging others, it is supposed to be about reading a story that resonates with something you've experienced on a personal level, about self growth, and that isn't even allowed to happen if the church is hostile towards what it should support, which is human life.

The problem is, in today's religious society, we have completely screwed up on what the purpose of the Bible is, it is not a rule book, it is a story book full of stories to relate to, not stories to judge by.

Rules are good to follow, but there is no warmth and adaptability in rules without understanding, there is no love in fear - fear caused by lack of experience and the maturity that comes with it.

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Two Types of Blind Christians: The Naive and the Willfully Evil

Although what I don't understand, and what can't be accounted for by this, is that Idaho is a heavily Christian state while Washington is the opposite, yet in Idaho, the amount of pure evil was disproportionately higher, and I still highly doubt that the Christians there pay attention to the Bible whatsoever.

Once again, it is because they are using it as a tool to judge others, which is entirely not the purpose of the Bible, there are even passages explicitly explaining this. As a matter of fact, using the Bible as an excuse to do evil deeds is ludicrous and entirely misses the whole point!

The purpose of the Bible is the opposite of this, it is to give someone something to read and empathize with, it is about giving someone a way to check and see how other people in their situations handled them, not to judge others, but to help oneself. It is about stories, not laws.

So when I returned here and went to church, the people may have been naive about the Bible, but they were honestly better people. Even so, although they did not judge others, they are hesitant to mingle with non Christians, and once again, this shows a weakness in their faith, and they need to fix that, they need to test it, it is up to them to make their own faith stronger by mingling with the "unworthy."

Only someone with no faith whatsoever would not trust themselves in a compromising situation.

reply to post by darkbake


Kudos darkbake
This is brave and admirable...i don't even know what you are going to write...looking forward to it...

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


The Battle of the End Times - Lay Down Arms and Embrace, clans - you have been apart for too long

I was thinking about this today. I believe that there are two opposing forces, the forces of God, and the forces of Satan, which have different perspectives on life - neither one is good, neither one is bad, they are different.

However, they cannot understand each other. One of them, the forces of God, starts from the bottom and builds laws as they learn them to improve their society, which allows for stability and communication and altruism, but lacks in progress.

The others, the Satanists, they are able to observe the flaws in the society of God and know of ways to improve it in order to give better life experiences to the individuals involved in that system - however, they do not have the ability to create an ordered system that would allow for stability, altruism and trust. In fact, their chaotic nature (from the fact that they are observers) might keep them from being able to make good decisions for themselves over a period of time, they might make a mistake, and this frustrates them - they wish that they had the stability of God, with the wisdom of their clan infused.

----------

The two sides need to sign a peace treaty, they need to work together in order to understand, the side of God needs to listen to the advice of Satan in order to expand their society to a point where it is stable and provides better life experiences for everyone.

Neither side will be able to understand how the other thinks unless an agent is sent in under deep cover to fully immerse himself in the opposing culture of God in order to understand it, empathize with it, love it and still maintain his ability to see and improve what needs to be improved. If this agent under deep cover is able to succeed with his goal undetected,

Then when the forces of God meet with the forces of Satan at the predestined battle of the End Times, they will lay down arms and embrace.

darkbake
The two sides need to sign a peace treaty, they need to work together in order to understand, the side of God needs to listen to the advice of Satan in order to expand their society to a point where it is stable and provides better life experiences for everyone.

Neither side will be able to understand how the other thinks unless an agent is sent in under deep cover to fully immerse himself in the opposing culture of God in order to understand it, empathize with it, love it and still maintain his ability to see and improve what needs to be improved. If this agent under deep cover is able to succeed with his goal undetected,

Then when the forces of God meet with the forces of Satan at the predestined battle of the End Times, they will lay down arms and embrace.

edit on 09amSat, 09 Nov 2013 03:28:06 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

The 'two sides' are good and bad.
You believe in improvement so you are seeing bad and wanting better (good).
The 'two sides' are before and after.

What if the two opposing forces could be seen through? Not by everyone but by you.
Existence is neither good nor bad - it just is.
Existence isn't before or after - existence is now.

The conflict is laid upon you by belief in the concepts. Who can tell, in the grand scheme of things, what is good and what is bad?
The judgement is what clouds apparent existence.

darkbake
Two Types of Blind Christians: The Naive and the Willfully Evil

Although what I don't understand, and what can't be accounted for by this, is that Idaho is a heavily Christian state while Washington is the opposite, yet in Idaho, the amount of pure evil was disproportionately higher, and I still highly doubt that the Christians there pay attention to the Bible whatsoever.

Once again, it is because they are using it as a tool to judge others, which is entirely not the purpose of the Bible, there are even passages explicitly explaining this. As a matter of fact, using the Bible as an excuse to do evil deeds is ludicrous and entirely misses the whole point!

The purpose of the Bible is the opposite of this, it is to give someone something to read and empathize with, it is about giving someone a way to check and see how other people in their situations handled them, not to judge others, but to help oneself. It is about stories, not laws.

So when I returned here and went to church, the people may have been naive about the Bible, but they were honestly better people. Even so, although they did not judge others, they are hesitant to mingle with non Christians, and once again, this shows a weakness in their faith, and they need to fix that, they need to test it, it is up to them to make their own faith stronger by mingling with the "unworthy."

Only someone with no faith whatsoever would not trust themselves in a compromising situation.

edit on 27pmSun, 27 Oct 2013 13:32:39 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 27pmSun, 27 Oct 2013 13:33:27 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

I am an ex-Christian who was born and raised in a very strict, born-again family. One of the things I resented about Christianity that aided in my departure from it, was the prevalence of what I termed "Evil Christians". Christians who are judgemental, ill-willed, and selfish. Hypocritical. Even my own father and mother, who I love, behaved quite badly under the guise of being a "good Christian".

Many Christians fail to get the teachings of Jesus. They are more concerned about getting on a high horse than they are with "Do Unto Others", or "Judge Not". Personally, I agree with most of the teachings of Jesus, but I separated myself from the Christians, because I don't believe in the religion that has been built around the teachings.

I have something which you may wish to ponder on -

Is organised Religion a spiritual or a cultural phenomena in modern society?

Do the majority of people who take part in the Catholic/Islamic faith, really do so because they have reached a state of 'enlightenment' or 'knowledge' of a higher being or higher power, or have they been born into the state of religion?

reply to post by darkbake


I adapted to the empathy and perspective part pretty well, but i had trouble dealing with what that meant in relation to the people around me, to the point that most other people still seem very selfish to me in an obvious way. I get frustrated that they don't seem to see it themselves and question my feelings.

The thing i have the most trouble with is reconciling the various things with my present reality, the mundane so to speak.

Living the 9 to 5 existence is difficult for me as it seem like a fundamental waste of time but i can't quite articulate why exactly... it's more of a gut feeling.

reply to post by Raivan31


The problem with the 9-5 job is that, first of all, you are only maintaining. And you are doing the same thing every day - not only that, you are working for someone else's will. But it can be worked around, and the advantage of the job is that it provides stability.

You could start projects in your free time, and if you have no free time, create it as I explain in a minute, and maybe use that free time to just have free time and do something fun.

What I do, is I keep a notebook containing what I own in it so that I know. If I want something else, I write it on a buy list, and then I purchase it. This is practiced goal setting - it is even a very practical and real type of manifesting - it is important to visualize the goal clearly - writing it down helps - and then do it. I do this because I have a hard time relaxing if I don't know things are in order. It compensates for the fact I have a hard time relaxing.

Where it gets a bit hazy are the things that I have to do on a monthly basis in order to maintain my lifestyle, for example, go grocery shopping, clean, fill my car with gas - I have been isolating those to certain days of the month, I have a box for index cards, with each day of the month having a little folder and I plop the relevant index cards (Clean Apartment) (Grocery Shop) in there.

The whole idea is to have this situation where I am living in an apartment, and I get to go out in the world on an adventure to collect things and accomplish goals or maybe just relax and have fun using my own will, while not worried about other things, and then come back to the apartment with whatever I have collected.

That means that when I leave to go on an adventure, I don't have a time limit - there are no such thing as time limits. IT also means that I can focus on what I'm doing and not be rushed. But for me, I still get the structure of coming back to a place where I know things are in order, and a schedule where I know my # is getting done.

The Chinese do a similar thing with their very successful businesses, although their approach outmatches mine. They make a major goal, and then don't micromanage. Instead, they free up the time for years at a time to pursue what happens as it comes up. Think of how freeing this simple concept is!

In America, we are obsessed with so much that doesn't matter - and literally, it doesn't. Do you want to know how I determine what matters or not? You take your end goal, and then you see how efficient your actions are in getting there. Also, how comprehensive is your end goal?

Let's say your end goal is have your kitchen stocked with food. Min-max that #. You can go grocery shopping once a month, you might even get better deals buying in bulk - and think of all the time saved, especially if you are able to isolate other, and dare I say it, maybe all, of your other more-than-likely ridiculously sporadic and inefficiently met desires - but don't worry about isolating all of them. Only a few might make a big difference, honestly.

Think of the shopping. So you isolate that to one day a month. What do Americans usually do? Spend their whole day running errands, work, errand, have to pick up this, have to pick up that. Well, analyze and isolate. A month is a good time frame because it will cover most routines.

The goal is to have GIGANTIC blocks of free time. Once you have a large block of free time, you can actually do something important with your life - maybe be happy, maybe play, maybe do something major - most things that matter don't have time limits, but are instead the kind of thing where you explore an issue thoroughly, so it is more spatial in nature, and then it comes to a natural end when it has been fully explored for the moment.

What I usually do with a project, even this post, is I go through with it in a quality manner so that I can leave it satisfactorily in the past and move to the next thing. And it isn't even necessarily in the past, it has simply been posted on the net now.

Time can be a fabrication that enslaves us. However, in our society, and in this universe, it is rather necessary to do things to maintain one's life - we don't live in a universe that prevents decay.

Choose the job you want, you can literally do anything you can envision - and that is, believe it or not, still limited - there are limits to what you or I can visualize, and those limits are usually what we are capable of or not.

The 9-5 can work out, if you reorganize the energies in the right manner, and think of it similar to school (I like this) - when you come home, it is over, and you get to play. So go back to your high school days, the greatest ones - where you go to work, come home, have friends over and are happy.

In the best sense, you might end up living in moments, traveling from room to room or place to place and when you get there, having things or people to interact with and the freedom to stay or leave as long as you wish.

I tried to articulate what I could for you while I was able to - I put a lot in there. Hopefully some of it helps.

reply to post by darkbake


Karma is explained in the bible as you reap what you sow.

Not? Do you see what I see I mean?

Why don't you just republish the bible?

oktopus
Why don't you just republish the bible?

That is an interesting idea. I was thinking about doing a complete Biblical Analysis and interpretation at some point.

reply to post by darkbake


Faux Christianity and Mind Control

I have started trying to pay attention to my threads and do one of them at a time until it is completed for the most part. Sometimes in the past, I can get pretty A.D.D. - working on being more reliable!

I think that there is a lot of mind control going on, especially in the Western nations, most especially in the United States, which seems to me to be a kind of rat's nest of test subjects, possibly trying out different philosophies or something on a massive scale - that's what it seems like, at least.

At any rate, when it comes to mind control of a populace or individual, I can usually tell what is going on by someone's actions or speech not making sense when compared to straight cause-and-effect. Taking this to the next level, we even have intention, which is then either correctly gained through cause-and-effect, or incorrectly attempted because corruption has been inflicted on the information available to make reasonable choices to obtain the intent.

Taking this to the next level, we have people who are experienced with gaining their intentions and understand how harming others or themselves to do so is not in anyone's best interest. This would be easily obtained through experience if there were not so many barricades in the way of clear thinking to begin with.

I can see an argument for the idea that people in general can get confused and start implanting these false ideas in their own heads or others. In that case, I think that it is extremely important for Honest Warriors to continue to remind people of the real truth through free speech and other mediums, such as art, and in everyone's best interest.

However, I also think that there are people out there who are misleading others, even the whole population, on purpose in order to maliciously achieve goals at the expense of others' abilities to perceive reality correctly. I feel that this is almost a given.

Although complicated, I think that one aspect of this is centered around Christianity and the Fake Christian, which would be many of them, who are somehow incapable of following what they preach almost as if preaching it gives them the right to not worry about it at all. In fact, I often wonder if Christ dying for our sins on the cross was a fabrication made with the explicit purpose of this. Something complicated that was constructed on purpose by someone (Deity or otherwise) is absolutely going on centered around this particular issue.

I think there are people who are awake and able to correctly perceive the world around them and make decisions, and some of these people might even be a positive force, if they have enough experience to be wise - and I think there are people who are asleep, prossibly two kinds, one of them in an actual trance and the other one possibly bitter and hostile because their knowledge is limited in scope to one, lower-vibration way of life. And someone in a trance might not even know they are in a trance (although others might, if they happen to notice they miss details during the day).

I don't think that it is natural to have one's senses cut off and reasoning cut off to the point where one doesn't know what is going on around them or how to make correct decisions. I think that children, in fact, don't have these limitations. I think that some people though, in fact many, are nearly permanently hypnotized into doing one thing while they think they are doing another.

On the other hand, maybe it is natural to have one's senses and reasoning cut off to the point where they make incorrect decisions - however, I do not think that it is the most healthy way. The Bible mentions "The blind leading the blind" and this phrase comes to mind as describing the phenomena I mention here.

Which is why I specifically mention the False Christian in this post, I think that the real Christian is the warrior who remains vigilant to Truth, not the one who spreads lies as an agent of Babylon, at least how Babylon is described from what I hear. I think that the Real Christian is one who is a scientist, as God made the universe and its rules. To deny science is to deny God. However, and I'm not sure if I mentioned this before in this thread, there is more going on than meets the eye of the casual scientific observer. As is the case when cause-and-effect are visibly altered by unknown forces.

But at any rate, there is another force at play here, one that has an easy time masquerading in Western thought.