Edwards F22 crash site...then and now

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posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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Edwards F22 2009 crash


I'll leave it as an "exerciser for the reader" to find the crash site on Google Earth. I have to say the USAF groomed the area extensively. However, that grooming makes it stick out like a sore thumb on Google Earth. It is really hard to alter the desert and make it look like nothing has happened.

I suppose the could yank creosote bushes from one part of the desert and transplant them to the "repaired" section.




posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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"human factors associated with high gravitational forces caused the March 25 crash of an F-22 test aircraft"

What?


Edit: Oh I see they meant high-g maneuvers not some magical high gravity zone or something like that.

OP: Why did you post this what is the point?
edit on 29-8-2012 by Socrato because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by Socrato
 


The point is how they disguised the crash site. [Nothing to see here folks, Move along,..move along.] The F-22 is considered secret enough that they don't want parts getting out to the general public.It had a higher then usual about of security around the crash site during the initial recovery. I was told it was under Predator surveillance. Note all crash sites have some on-scene presence so that the evidence won't be disturbed.

Since the plane was not a black world project, they didn't have to lie regarding what had crashed.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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I don't see anything wrong with cleaning up a crash site. After any crash you would typically clean up and try to make the area look as normal as possible. Are you saying the fact that they did this is strange?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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One thing though. Transplanting bushes to mask the grooming probably wouldn't work. The plants would go into shock most likely and not take during transplanting.

I doubt anyone would want the job of doing that landscaping. They would have to rely on outside experts to get the job done and have the plants take. So there goes opsec right there. and you'd get charged an arm and a leg.

But you do bring up some great points. there are obvious signs in most places where a craft would crash and be retrieved. So if someone says a UFO went down and the govt took it recently in such a such vicinity and there are no markings like this anywhere then it's probably not where the craft crashed.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


The USAF has been plowing and fertilizing as of late, where applicable. The F-15 that crashed near Cedar Pass already was in a hole. They didn't do much there, or they didn't care. The F-16 that crashed on the dry lake east of Rachel was groomed a bit. You can still see the tire tracks on the lake from the truck that hauled it off.

If not for OPSEC, then I guess the BLM or some other authority has requested these sites be cleaned up. There is a USAF photo for one crash retrieval a few years ago where they literally helicoptered out the debris. It was from a F-15 or F16.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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Makes a lot of sense. Always liked your posts. Interesting that they fertilize. Why. if anything that would make the lush growth stand out like a neon sigh to analysts studying arial photography of said suspected crash sight.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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The F-22 crash site near Harper Lake is now the "Gold Standard" for aircraft crash recovery efforts. I have researched U.S. government crash retrieval activities extensively, with particular interest in "black projects" from Area 51, Tonopah Test Range, etc. Some clean-up efforts for such craft have taken as little as a few days, and others up to several weeks. In every case, the responsible government agency had virtually unlimited resources and very high motivation to clean up the site (national security concerns due to the nature of the particular unacknowledged special access program). In some cases, declassified documents or testimony from participants clearly state that cleaning up the site was the top priority.

After the F-22 crashed, a five-mile security perimeter was established around the impact crater. Armed security guards were on site 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Predator drones were used to patrol the airspace, making sure that no unauthorized personnel breached the perimeter. After the largest debris was collected, a spray fixative (think "liquid wax") was used to capture small debris and particulate matter on the ground. Due to the large volume of carbon-fiber composite structural material, as well as the usual toxic fuels and lubricants, the debris was treated as hazardous material. Cleanup crews wore Tyvek overalls and respirators. A decontamination station was established at a temporary Base Camp south of the crash scene. A very large volume of contaminated soil was excavated in the vicinity of the crater and hauled to a secure landfill. Clean soil was trucked in to refill the hole. A contractor was then hired to restore the site's original contours and replant native vegetation. Native foliage was plucked from the surrounding area and planted on the site, but it quickly died due to transplant shock and the fact that nobody made an effort to water it.

The entire cleanup and restoration effort lasted three months. It took longer and was more comprehensive than any crash recovery that I have yet seen including black projects and nuclear weapon mishaps. Nevertheless, visitors to the site have found numerous pieces of debris from the F-22. This example is typical, and illustrates why it is unlikely that any "UFO" crash site would ever be truly sanitized.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


Shadowhawk, I road by a small flag surrounded by a circle of rock right at the edge of Hoffman Road, after riding south past Fremont Peak. Was this at the F-22 site? It was near those couple of old buildings.
edit on 29-8-2012 by desert because: correct direction



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Yes, that was the site. The pilot almost landed on top of one of those buildings.

If you wish to know more about the accident, check out Chapter 6 of this book:

www.nasa.gov...



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 12:27 AM
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My tax dollars were well spent in writing that book. [I hope that was an assigned task and not something done in your spare time.]

Given that the F-22 weapons bays doors were open, were the practice bombs still attached to the aircraft as it crashed? At the F-4 crash near Rachel, the practice bombs landed some distance from the aircraft.

Speaking of mishaps, something I heard regarding Neil Armstrong may be of interest. Apparently there was a LEM trainer. Not rocket based, but with a jet engine there for thrust. The thing nearly killed Armstrong prior to Apollo 11. He ejected in the nick of time.

I read all of chapter 6 and will read the whole book eventually. Just flipping through it, I noticed that the B-1A has "saucer separation" technology. [A reference to Star Trek Next Generation]. News to me. I know the F-111 can do this. In fact, they drop tested the F-111 cabin at Edwards IIRC.



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by gariac
that grooming makes it stick out like a sore thumb on Google Earth.


Once Shadowhawk confirmed for me that I indeed was at the crash site, I can tell ya that, from ground level, which is where most people see from, it all looked the same as when we'd traversed that road several times before.

I haven't yet read the book Shadowhawk mentioned, but there's another great book co-authored by the same author

X-Plane Crashes: Exploring Experimental, Rocket Plane & Spycraft Incidents, Accidents & Crash Sites

It's my Bible for crash sites, and I won't loan it out to anyone, especially my good friend, who I know from past experiences doesn't return stuff.



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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Yes, the dummy missiles remained in the weapons bay and were not ejected. The canopy, seat, and pilot were the only items that separated prior to impact. They were found along a line between the impact crater and those buildings.

This is a bit OT, but the escape capsule system was only used in the first three B-1A prototypes. AV-4 was equipped with standard ejections seats, as were the production B-1B airframes. In the case of the F-111, the prototypes had standard ejection seats, and the production models were equipped with a capsule. There is an F-111A crash site just south of Edwards that represents an example of successful use of the capsule to save the crew.



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


One crash site clean up that stands out in my mind is the then unknown F117 that crashed in the mid 1980s in the Kern Canyon. Local newspapers at the time reported on the swift evacuation of campers by the military and soldiers combing the hills for debris, in a cordoned off, secured area. It was rumored (beyond the ufo rumors) that there was something special about the material used to build the plane, and so every bit had to be picked up.

Did the introduction of exotic materials/fuels in later years seem to be the reason for more thorough debris removal/clean up? In regards to soil removal, is the AF doing this to comply with hazardous waste cleanup methods?

You're right. That F-22 clean up was a gold standard.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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Prior to the F-22 mishap, the Bakersfield F-117A crash site was the "gold standard" for cleanup. That operation, involving what was then an unacknowledged special access ("black") program. took three weeks. The crash site was declared a National Defense Area (a temporary restriction) and security was very high. After the site was reopened to the public, representatives of the news media flew in by helicopter and found debris from the F-117A. Of course, the identity of the aircraft was not revealed until the F-117A was declassified in November 1988, more than two years after the accident. Later stories claiming that the site was sanitized, or that it was salted with debris from a more conventional aircraft, are false.

Both the F-117A and the F-22 were constructed from a combination of conventional materials (aluminum and titanium alloys) and composites (carbon fiber/graphite, epoxy fiberglass, etc.). Both aircraft impacted the ground at steeps angles and high rates of speed. Structural breakup was nearly absolute in both cases.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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I used to say Google Earth was more or less worthless for finding crash sites. However, since they have improved the image resolution over the years, it is getting to the point where you can generally see the road to the crash site and the disturbed soil. You still need the crash reports to get close, but Google Earth is somewhat useful.

I had the Jeremiah Weed crash report for about 4 years before I bothered to go find the crash. [Note, it is just a F-4 crash, but there is a cool story behind the crash, which is what makes it interesting.] The report was barely readable. The location stated was miles from the actual crash site using the best guess at the location via data in the report. [These reports don't indicate if the distance is in statute or nautical, so you need to try both. The bearing could be true or magnetic. The bullseye could be the center of town or the airport VOR. Lastly, they can just provide a crappy bearing because they don't care about anyone finding it.] I found the general area by matching up the topography in the report with the USGS map. The disturbed soil was easy to spot on Google Earth.

Walt Ray's A-12 crash site has enough resolution now that you can see where the recovery crew wore out the nearby soil gathering debris. It is like they traced the same paths up and down the hill.

The F-4 crash near Rachel now has some glitter showing on google earth.

All this said, I've often found odd looking patches of soil on Google Earth that have no real significance when you get there in person.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by gariac
 


Google Earth is a neat way to look at the world. Before it, all I had was a map and a high place to look down.


A friend sent us a GE pix of our camp site. It showed his rig and dune buggy.


reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


Shadowhawk, one time when a group of riders had stopped for lunch, I picked up an OOPArt (I like that acronym
). Everyone else said it was a piece of pvc, but it turned out it might be a part from a Mighty Mouse rocket. Any idea what would a rocket like that be doing near Edwards and not China Lake?



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by desert
 


Don't be surprised to find fragments of Mighty Mouse rockets and other ordnance all over the Mojave Desert. There were bombing and gunnery ranges around Muroc (Edwards), Mojave, Inyokern, Ridgecrest, Superior Valley, Harper Lake, Cuddeback Lake, Dagget, Apple Valley, etc. I am forever finding .50 cal rounds and casings, 2.75-inch rocket fragments, flares, and practice bombs of all shapes and sizes. There are also more than 600 crash sites in the vicinity of Edwards Air Force Base andits surroundings.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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Shadowhawk was accurate on his assessment. This crash happened less than a year before I got to Edwards AFB and I know most of the cops (Air Force Security Forces) that responded and were posted there. The Air Force has an obligation to return the area to "normal" after something like this happens. Additionally, any accident that involves carbon fiber gets the distance treatment due to the fibers (think asbestos to the lungs folks). They are also going to scour the area and GPS map each and every single piece of that airplane and that's before/after they spray the area down with a type of foam that prevents the carbon fiber from blowing around. There was nothing secret about this crash and nothing to cover up. The aircraft currently at Edwards are here for testing and outside of the F-35 it's for block upgrade testing (outside of the new bomber which has not begun any type of testing yet). This was an F-22 and they were operational at this time frame.





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