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The UFO Poll You Probably Haven't Heard Of

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posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Most people who take more than a casual interest in this subject eventually come to learn how, in 1958, a writer for the Newark Star Ledger named John Lester polled 50 commercial pilots on their thoughts regarding UFOs and the U.S. Air Force's handling of the matter.

From a blog by Michael Swords:


The pilot responses about their beliefs and their treatment by the USAF were exactly as you would guess: that there are anomalous aerial phenomena up there and the pilots don't appreciate being threatened by the AF nor made to be fools.


But what seems to be less well-known (at least it was to me) is another subsequent poll that Lester conducted of 1,000 government radar operators. What did they have to say?


"Traveling at fantastic speeds--sometimes thousands of miles per hour--these objects execute perfect 90-degree turns, steep vertical climbs, even abrupt, hovering stops in defiance of all known laws of aerodynamics, the radarmen report."

"When more than one are involved they fly in a pattern within a pattern."

"In addition, they invariably stay just ahead of Air Force planes sent up to intercept them."


I've tried to find the Star Ledger article in a couple online newspaper archives, but so far I've come up empty. The Michael Swords entry is an interesting read, though.

I'll keep looking around for that clipping.

Hope this is new for some of you.
edit on 28-8-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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I believe that UFO's exist but I don't think they originate from outside of this solar system. They are most likely earth based. They most likely are the creation of an advanced human organization also.
edit on 28-8-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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radar operators ought to know stuff. they essentially have expert skills operating equipment specifically designed to reliably identify and accurately track the motions of airborne machines. they can effectively "see" for hundreds of miles and are trained to be able to discern birds from weather from aircraft. if anyone is a "qualified observer" to make the call whether something is a conventional aircraft vs NOT a conventional aircraft (or natural phenomenon) it would be those guys imo. good info here mang. keep it up!



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Consider probability when thinking about UFOs.

There are plenty of eye-witness testimonies and first person encounters with such unidentified things.

However, is it more likely that these things are from the vastness of deep space OR some sort of life that originated here and is interested in our doings? Hell, it could be both.

Either way, these things are a lost cause. Do not expect them to intervene directly which is what everyone hopes for.

They have an astounding record of not being there when needed.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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I've seen two, and yes, they could easily been titanium....and man made...and the last one in 1999 in Dallas....was the big 400 foot long cigar. it had definate facets 10 or so.....and went in and out of cloak.
12 seconds worth, o4000 feet up, on a ground track to take it over Love Field 0n a heading of 340
edit on 28-8-2012 by GBP/JPY because: yahushua...our new King!



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Urantia1111
radar operators ought to know stuff. they essentially have expert skills operating equipment specifically designed to reliably identify and accurately track the motions of airborne machines.
Let me give you an analogy.

My neighbor is 70 and has been operating a motor vehicle for 52 years. So does this infer that she has any specialized knowledge about the equipment she operates? She understand the controls, and knows how to fix a few obvious problems like adding gas when the gas gage shows it's empty. But in those 50 years, I doubt she's ever opened the hood of her car even once. She has very little knowledge of how it actually works under the hood. She takes it to a mechanic when it breaks.

I don't assign any more expertise to a radar operator operating a radar, than I do to my neighbor motor vehicle operator operating a motor vehicle. In fact, my neighbor probably has more experience with her 52 years of it.

So when there is anomalous behavior with radar equipment, the typical radar operator has no more understanding of possible "under the hood" causes of that, then my neighbor has of what's causing the anomalous behavior of her motor vehicle. Neither one fully understand all the technology and what's "under the hood", though they are both quite familiar with the controls and have experience using them.

Regarding the claim about 90 degree turns, I have yet to see any video that shows this. I believe aliens probably exist but even they have to obey the laws of physics, which prohibit 90 degree turns of a massive object with no turning radius (no problem for a beam of photons though), so if that's what radar operators see, then you have to ask what is more likely, an equipment glitch, or the laws of physics being violated. Something is not logical about presuming the latter.
edit on 29-8-2012 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker

I'll keep looking around for that clipping.



Great thread mate -haven't got much time at the mo but here's a relevant news clipping.






Came from Terry Hansen's website and there are plenty more interesting supporting documents here.

Cheers.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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Very interesting stuff and the above article is great as well.


So, another 400 pilots signed up on top of the original 50 in criticism of the Airforce policy of denial on UFOs, excellent reading.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Thanks for the link, karl. There are some interesting statements in that article that give the reader a sense of how the Air Force treated commercial pilots who reported UFOs. Seems strange to me that the poll of radar operators hasn't found its way into the "mainstream" of UFO studies in the same way the pilot poll has.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by Orkojoker

I'll keep looking around for that clipping.



Great thread mate -haven't got much time at the mo but here's a relevant news clipping.






Came from Terry Hansen's website and there are plenty more interesting supporting documents here.

Cheers.


Great work again Orko.

Since the scan of the article is difficult to read, here is a transcript:

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

In an interview with the Newark Star-Ledger (December 22, 1958), a group of more than fifty commercial airline pilots blasted Air Force procedures and conclusions concerning UFOs. Here in full is the article:

Pilots ridicule AF secrecy on saucers

By John Lester
Staff Writer

A group of more than 50 top commercial airline pilots, all veterans of more than 15 years with major companies, yesterday blasted as "bordering on the absolute ridiculous" the Air Force policy of tight censorship, brush-off and denial in regard to unidentified flying objects -- flying saucers.

One termed the Air Force policy "a lesson in lying, intrigue and the 'Big Brother' attitude carried to the ultimate extreme."

Each of the pilots has sighted at least one UFO, the majority several.

All have been interrogated by the Air Force and most expressed disgust and frustration at Air Force methods and conclusions.

"We are ordered to report all UFO sightings," one said, "but when we do we are usually treated like incompetents and told to keep quiet.

"This is no fun, especially after many hours of questioning -- sometimes all night long. You're tired. You've just come in from a grueling flight, anxious to get home to the wife and kids. But you make your report anyhow and the Air Force tells you that the thing that paced your plane for 15 minutes was a mirage or a bolt of lightning.

"Nuts to that. Who needs it?"

Another said he was certain many pilots "forget" to report UFO sightings rather than undergo Air Force quizzing and ridicule. He said he is sure much valuable information is lost as a result.

Although the pilots expressed themselves freely, they asked that their names be withheld because in most instances employers had directed them, at Air Force insistence, to say nothing for publication.

The Star-Ledger has their names, however, and it was agreed that they could be released if and when the "strict silence" ban is lifted.

One of the pilots was refused permission by his company to appear on a recent nationwide telecast.

Another was ordered to "cease and desist" after he'd appeared on two recent network telecasts with his company's expressed approval.

In referring to the UFO tracking by Civil Aeronautics Authority radar men stationed around the country, as reported in this newspaper last Friday, one of the pilots explained "the Air Force can't afford to admit radar is correct without also admitting its own attitude has been incorrect from the beginning."

This pilot also pointed to a Joint Chiefs of Staff order giving top radio priority to UFO reports anywhere in the world, and specifying that any pilot who fails to maintain absolute secrecy afterwards is subject to a maximum of 10 years in prison and a fine of $10,000.

"If the whole UFO business is to be taken so lightly, as the official Air Force policy suggests, then why are the Joint Chiefs so serious and obviously so concerned about it, and why are they going to all that trouble?"

In respect to the Joint Chiefs' order, none of the pilots were asked to reveal details of any of their sightings or questioned about them in any way.


Since the appearance of the above article Mr Lester has informed this Committee that 400 more pilots have joined the list of the original 50.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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what do you expect the airforce to do in the height of the cold war facing possible nuclear destruction at the hands of communist russia;

say the public and to the world that there are aircrafts making a mockery of our air defences and toying with our interceptors, of unknown origin, possibly russian or extraterrestrial.

its better military strategy to deny it and not show weakness in your defences.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
I believe that UFO's exist but I don't think they originate from outside of this solar system. They are most likely earth based. They most likely are the creation of an advanced human organization also.
edit on 28-8-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)


I have toyed with this idea. What if you had a group of humans that exceeded normal human intelligence? Would they share the technology they developed or would they just leave the less advanced humans here on earth?

If there were a more hospitable planet in our Solar System I would say that most would leave, I know I would! But as far as we know there is not, nor is there any close to use. Which would mean, that at least for the time being they are stuck here with the rest of us.

I would love to see exploration of space and care nothing of sports, most media, politics and our wasteful fighting nature. And if I had a chance I would jump on a ship and explore space, but then even as smart as I think I am they may find me to be a complete moron…



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by abeverage
 


If in five hundred years mankind succeeded in bridging time, they could come back and try to coax things. If they screwed up they would not exist and everything would collapse and they would revert back to the beginning of their adventure. If they realized this could happen then they could alter some things without starting over, since they could also warn themselves by loss of communication. A ship could leave clues in history so someone could uncover them at preset points in history. It is possible but not probable that this could happen. If they changed an event their future could get better. I do not know if this theory would be possible. Maybe I watched to much Dr. Who.


It would be more logical to think this would work from the standpoint of an advanced civilization in our past though. They could change things by teaching people through information that was given subconsciously. Being that advanced would require getting rid of evidence of their existance, steering people to recycle it. The ability of time travel would be a great thing, knowing that your species must soon go extinct for another to be created. Maybe they are even still alive but look like greys now. Maybe they never looked like us. Maybe someone will create a movie from the ideas in my post. I hope they give me a free movie pass

edit on 29-8-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Let me give you an analogy..


That's a nice little analogy you've gone and posted there Arbitrageur but doesn't it completely fail to address radar/visual cases?

What about incidents where unknown objects are tracked and plotted on (sometimes multiple) radar screens in the same area of sky as to where they are being reported by eye-witnesses?

Here's an interesting case where Mexico City Airport flight control reported three unexplainable radar blips near a pilot's aircraft the same time he was visually reporting three 'domed discs' flying alongside his plane..


Thread


this case also involves several unknown objects with 'flashing red lights on the bottom and green, glowing lights on top' being verified by five independent radar installations and witnessed by several U.S. Military personnel including the Air Force air traffic controller..


Thread


this case involves an unidentified flying object being seen by separately located witnesses and tracked on radar over Pinecastle Electronic Warfare Range Tracking Station in 1978..


Thread


this case involves a low level UFO being confirmed on ground and air radar and witnessed by separately located U.S. Military personnel on Minot Air Force Base in 1968..


Thread


this case also involves military witnesses seeing a UFO in the same area of sky as to where the object was confirmed on multiple radar..


Thread


this case involves two pilots of a RAF Meteor VII witnessing three 'disc shaped' objects 'flying over the cockpit of their aircraft' - the three objects were also confirmed on ground radarat a speed of 600mph:


Thread


I'm sure there will be quite a few other radar/visual cases out there but how does your analogy about faulty equipment and incompetent radar operators deal with incidents where there is quite obviously an independent visual confirmation at the same time and location?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 




I'm sure there will be quite a few other radar/visual cases out there but how does your analogy about faulty equipment and incompetent radar operators deal with incidents where there is quite obviously an independent visual confirmation at the same time and location?


JAL 1628


The very fact that TPTB still have the brass neck to deny all knowledge of stuff like this is an absolute disgrace.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by Brighter

This pilot also pointed to a Joint Chiefs of Staff order giving top radio priority to UFO reports anywhere in the world, and specifying that any pilot who fails to maintain absolute secrecy afterwards is subject to a maximum of 10 years in prison and a fine of $10,000.



Is this part accurate and factual?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by abeverage
I would love to see exploration of space and care nothing of sports, most media, politics and our wasteful fighting nature. And if I had a chance I would jump on a ship and explore space, but then even as smart as I think I am they may find me to be a complete moron…


I could not agree more.
Never in my adult life have I been more disappointed in a president than when President Obama KILLED our return mission to the moon.
Our future lies in the stars. And we must be brave and steadfast in our determination to reach out to the heavens.

Why he cancelled our return trip to the moon I will never know...
I know that I certainly have ZERO problem with my tax dollars going to another manned moon mission...

My wife is an inner city ER physician and the annual medicaid fraud alone could pay for 10 moon shots....

-christosterone



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker
Most people who take more than a casual interest in this subject eventually come to learn how, in 1958, a writer for the Newark Star Ledger named John Lester polled 50 commercial pilots on their thoughts regarding UFOs and the U.S. Air Force's handling of the matter.

From a blog by Michael Swords:


The pilot responses about their beliefs and their treatment by the USAF were exactly as you would guess: that there are anomalous aerial phenomena up there and the pilots don't appreciate being threatened by the AF nor made to be fools.


But what seems to be less well-known (at least it was to me) is another subsequent poll that Lester conducted of 1,000 government radar operators. What did they have to say?


"Traveling at fantastic speeds--sometimes thousands of miles per hour--these objects execute perfect 90-degree turns, steep vertical climbs, even abrupt, hovering stops in defiance of all known laws of aerodynamics, the radarmen report."

"When more than one are involved they fly in a pattern within a pattern."

"In addition, they invariably stay just ahead of Air Force planes sent up to intercept them."


I've tried to find the Star Ledger article in a couple online newspaper archives, but so far I've come up empty. The Michael Swords entry is an interesting read, though.

I'll keep looking around for that clipping.

Hope this is new for some of you.
edit on 28-8-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)



"Traveling at fantastic speeds--sometimes thousands of miles per hour--these objects execute perfect 90-degree turns, steep vertical climbs, even abrupt, hovering stops in defiance of all known laws of aerodynamics, the radarmen report."

Sound like the two lights that I saw way back in 1977, late aug- early sept, both lights were miles apart, I had to turn my head back & forth to watch both. After about 20-30mins , the light which was behind me came towards light in front, it stopped near other light, both flying what I thought was totally random, like a housefly around a lightbulb. Then the lights both flew the same patterns, perfectly.
They were both the same size, colour & shape, fast moving stars with a small tail, like the dot on an oscilloscope. their patterns were matched in less than 10 seconds, both were still matched at incredible speed & pulling acute angle turns that I believe would kill a human. After another 20 mins or so we went home , it was later than we thought, got scolding for being late.
I was not alone ( forgot to mention my mate was watching too).:@@



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
That's a nice little analogy you've gone and posted there Arbitrageur but doesn't it completely fail to address radar/visual cases?
No I don't think so. I never claimed to be able to identify these. But just because some cases are unidentified is no proof of the competence of radar operators.

Moreover I don't see any cases there which contradict my main point. None of them have video of 90 degree turns with no turning radius, do they? Even if there was a witness describing that, the witness testimony would not be credible. Video is needed of such an event for any credibility.

Just to clarify, I'm not even suggesting no radar operator ever saw such a 90 degree turn with zero turning radius, indeed that might have appeared to be the case on their radar screen. The incompetence as I see it would be involved in interpreting that as a real physical object rather than an equipment glitch.

In cases where they report no such physically impossible maneuvers, there may be no reason to question what they observed, especially if there's visual confirmation.
edit on 29-8-2012 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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But before he could attempt evasion, he and McCoid saw the brilliant light almost instantaneously change direction and flash across their flight path from port to starboard at an angular velocity that Chase told me he had never seen matched in all of his 20 years of flying, before or after that incident. The luminous source had moved with great rapidity from their 11 o'clock to about their 2 o'clock position and then blinked out.


www.ufocasebook.com...



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