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On the Subject of Riches

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posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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While I believe it to be true that we all have our shortcomings I find that the worlds wealthiest tend to personify the Bible's 7 sins on a degree that many of us might not even be able to fathom. Now I am not a Christian, but I do believe that I understand why the sins listed in the Bible are detrimental to the human race and detrimental to the self. Many here on ATS tend to dislike the rich with great passion, however; I can't say that I see a reason for this. To me the rich live in their own personal hell.

Lust: So vein in their approach, they marry not for love and care not that those who marry them have done so for money and money alone. At the same time they may understand this to a degree, they have fallen in lust with their own score card.

Greed: I probably don't have to explain anything here. The rich have dedicated their entire lives to the pursuit of more.

Gluttony: Personally, and you might disagree, I do not separate gluttony from Greed, I feel this is more about consumption than it is about food. Never satisfied and much like the vampire stories we all know the rich are doomed to a life of feeding that black hole that cannot be filled with things. Moreover the rich appear to view all as things, they see no people, only things to be owned and it is partly in this psychopathic ideology where they made their folly on the path to happiness.

Sloth: You may not be aware, but in many ideologies sloth refers not to laziness, but in the procrastination of ones religious studies. To me this does not mean studies regarding Christianity or Hinduism, but studies regarding the self and humanity. The search for ones shortcomings and the work required to better them or use them to the benefit of the self and others. The worlds wealthiest have clearly been putting this off for if they had not would they not have sought out happiness? If they had worked to understand themselves and relieve themselves of their own burdens would they represent the 7 sins so well?

Wrath: Easily angered the worlds wealthiest command legions and will reign terror upon those that choose to disobey. When the rich see someone that has chosen not their path they will make sure he is refused food and health care and housing. They will choke his source of income and in their fury they may even seek to murder him, with the command of such riches they have what it takes to make it happen and get away with it. The rich falsely believe themselves to be successful in life, though somewhere they know this not to be true, when they see someone shows them this falsehood in no uncertain terms they seek not to accept it, but to deny it by any means necessary.

Envy: The rich are insanely jealous of one another for when one buys a yacht the other must buy a bigger yacht. Fearful of their own failure in life they seek to play a never ending game of oneupmanship in the false endeavor to prove themselves worthy, to prove themselves better which leads me to the next sin.

Pride: The rich believe themselves, or desire to believe themselves, as superior to those with less. They feel that they have accomplished more, but it is in their so called accomplishments that they prove they have only sought the approval of others. Their so called accomplishments are tainted with murder, lust and self doubt. They seek not to accomplish, but to prove themselves, where in truth they need prove nothing. They fear the judgment of their peers as much if not more than the poor and this angers them to no end. Some call this little man syndrome, the rich seek to conceal their failure at maturity with the high score. They see no equality and see no people, only things to be possessed by them. They hate the poor, they hate that the poorest of the poor can find love where they can not.

Many here on ATS feel that the rich are in power or that the rich are in control. Many here feel that the rich have won some game, but I postulate that the rich are among the worlds biggest losers. The proverbial corporate latter only appears to lead up, but in fact leads down. I find no reason to hate the rich for they are in hell, a hell they created for themselves. The rich are some of the most punished and impoverished people on the planet, starved of love, starved of happiness, starved of understanding. Their jealousy and judgment upon each other has warped and twisted their minds, they are not in control of their own lives, the judgment of their peers controls them, their fear of inadequacy controls their every move. If there truly is a death, the rich have found it.




posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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This may well be true



Many here on ATS feel that the rich are in power or that the rich are in control


But you are just Ranting
Empower yourself and maybe you wil get the riches we all desire

Cran



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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From an ideological perspective I want to agree with you, but I don't see poor people automatically being morally superior.

And their hell as you put it

Originally posted by Symbiot
I find no reason to hate the rich for they are in hell, a hell they created for themselves.

has private islands, jet skiis, privilege, great food, fake respect and admiration, private jets, better healthcare, retirement security, etc...

Hell sounds pretty good some days when you are living in limbo...

I think you gotta take people on a case-by-case basis as much as possible.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


Dear Symbiot,

What I have observed is that the more power, money or celebrity one has, the more one is able to cater to their weaknesses. If you love chocolate and are rich, you can eat it till you explode and most people seem to have low impulse control when it comes to their personal cookie (the thing they love).



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


What is the Secret Society angle?



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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It took a lot of text for you to basically say that humans act like humans.

Off to BTS with you.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Elton
From an ideological perspective I want to agree with you, but I don't see poor people automatically being morally superior.

And their hell as you put it

Originally posted by Symbiot
I find no reason to hate the rich for they are in hell, a hell they created for themselves.

has private islands, jet skiis, privilege, great food, fake respect and admiration, private jets, better healthcare, retirement security, etc...

Hell sounds pretty good some days when you are living in limbo...

I think you gotta take people on a case-by-case basis as much as possible.


I am postulating that the hell they live is in their head. Insane with greed and a never satisfied gullet, what good is a private jet if it does not satisfy? I'm not trying to say that the poor are superior by any means, merely commenting on the fact that money cannot buy peace or happiness or love. Money does not buy satisfaction, but only more and more.


Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Symbiot
 


Dear Symbiot,

What I have observed is that the more power, money or celebrity one has, the more one is able to cater to their weaknesses. If you love chocolate and are rich, you can eat it till you explode and most people seem to have low impulse control when it comes to their personal cookie (the thing they love).


I'm not sure I understand how one is more able to cater to their weaknesses with riches, perhaps you could further explain your idea on this. Sure they can eat chocolate until they explode, but can they find love? Can they find acceptance? Is their mind ever at peace? Forced into a game of oneupmanship they are embattled to no end.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
reply to post by Symbiot
 


What is the Secret Society angle?


Perhaps this thread will be moved, but I figure the top whatever percent to be a rather exclusive society don't you?

Edit: Missed a couple:

Originally posted by cranspace
This may well be true



Many here on ATS feel that the rich are in power or that the rich are in control


But you are just Ranting
Empower yourself and maybe you wil get the riches we all desire

Cran

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I do not personally consider this to be a rant, but certainly others might. Personally I do not seek riches, but peace of mind.
edit on 28-8-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)



Originally posted by W3RLIED2
It took a lot of text for you to basically say that humans act like humans.

Off to BTS with you.


I do not think it is human to act as such, I think the act is a product of our construct. A civilization which demands that those obey and fear the judgment of their peers. A civilization which classifies the human as something that must prove its own existence rather then something that simply accept its own existence as necessary. I know not of this BTS you speak of by the way.
edit on 28-8-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Symbiot
Perhaps this thread will be moved, but I figure the top whatever percent to be a rather exclusive society don't you?


Not in the Secret Society sense. I think this thread may be more suited to the New World Order Forum where you may get more posters who are willing to engage you on your topic.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


We all make mistakes, how do I go about moving it?



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


Dear Symbiot,



I'm not sure I understand how one is more able to cater to their weaknesses with riches, perhaps you could further explain your idea on this. Sure they can eat chocolate until they explode, but can they find love? Can they find acceptance? Is their mind ever at peace? Forced into a game of oneupmanship they are embattled to no end.


Wealth can actually hold you back from growing personally. They don't have to be challenged so they don't learn life's lessons. Clearly this is not universal as some families make their kids live a more strenuous life. Lottery winners are a good example, they didn't earn it and often don't know how to restrain themselves when they get it. There is a big difference between earned and inherited money. What is easily obtained is rarely treasured.

When I was young, I knew four different individuals (17 to 22) who all inherited over a million dollars (a lot of money in the 70s). Three became junkies and lost it all. The fourth married into a wealthy family and did not get carried away. One of them was attending a Ivy League school, was a nationally recognized runner and was in a band. He ended up as a waiter at a Howard Johnsons.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Symbiot
We all make mistakes, how do I go about moving it?


You can ask one of the moderators, they would be happy to help you.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


Some good points, perhaps I should have been a bit more direct, but I was speaking largely about the extremely rich. I'm not trying to say that the extremely wealthy are the only ones that exhibit traits such as jealousy and greed, only that I see a lot of anger towards the rich on ATS and feel that they need not be hated for there is no need to take revenge upon a person who has already punished themselves so.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I thank you for your suggestion. A request has been issued.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


Dear Symbiot,



I was speaking largely about the extremely rich. I'm not trying to say that the extremely wealthy are the only ones that exhibit traits such as jealousy and greed, only that I see a lot of anger towards the rich on ATS and feel that they need not be hated for there is no need to take revenge upon a person who has already punished themselves so.


I knew a man (he has passed away) who owned a company worth a billion dollars. He owned it 100%. He and his father had created the company and grew it over 40 years. He went to work everyday and would get drunk at lunch. While I have no money (divorce is expensive), he always treated me with the utmost respect and we got to know each other fairly well. I know from others that there was a time when he let it go to his head prior to my knowing him. I believe if he had not kept working, he would have died much younger. He would have drank himself to death.

If people met him and did not know who he was, they would have never guessed he was wealthy. He was as honest a businessman as I have ever known. He refused to be involved in collusion with his competitors. I would tell people to judge him based on his actions and not on his wealth. He paid his bills and owed no debt (a rarity in any business).

As for ATS, I don't believe people hate the wealthy. I believe people hate the wealthy who use their wealth to rig the system, the man I talked about never did that to my knowledge. I believe people are upset when they are paying 20 to 35% in taxes and the wealthy pay 10%, I believe people think it is unfair that we have an oligarchy, that the game is rigged and that the insiders help one another illegally and with no concern for how it effects the nation or anyone else. The rich like any other group have the good and the bad, I have seen both.

When we see millionaire congressmen involved in insider trading because it is legal for them and then they cut people's food stamps or welfare it seems wrong. When Warren Buffet and Bill Gates say that they should pay more in taxes and the same congressmen ridicule them, it is wrong. When a multimillionaire like Romney (I am not a Republican or a Democrat or affiliated with any party, I have no use for them all) says that he is there to represent the rich and then later that the Republicans are the party of those who seek to be rich, we have a problem. Romney said that he is not there to represent the majority and that is the poor and working classes, there is no more middle class, we have to question what this nation has become.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


Apparently in the old testament marriage is defined as between a man and a prisoner of war. Never read the old testament myself I saw that shared on Facebook and cannot account for its authenticity. However; I do agree that marriage has become an institute of war, as if it were ever not.

Now I was speaking in the form of example, an example of a few of the pitfalls one is likely to encounter from the sins listed in the Bible. I find that the worlds wealthiest make a good example because many of them display all of these sins so well. Now this man you knew who was not in collusion with his competition, did he not pay taxes to those who would empower his competition? Did he not uphold a nation or ideology that empowered those who would only use their wealth to subjugate, deceive and manipulate? He sounds like a man who, at least at some point in his life, desired to bring a little honesty to a dishonest world. To me his mistake lies in that one cannot fight fire with fire for they would only fuel the flames.

As for people who are upset about paying 35% while those with more pay less. This is the system they bought into. If you do not want the rich to take advantage of the poor then you do not want America. America could be Rome's twin brother and this is how Rome worked too. When you give people the power to command legions they will abuse that power. Surely some of them do desire to do good, but you will never be able to weed out the corruption. There will always be those liars, those charismatic speakers who con and deceive. When you give people the power to command legions, they will abuse that power.
edit on 28-8-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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I would rather concern myself with my commission of the seven deadly sins and not worry about others'. "For all have sinned and come short of the "Glory of God."

Remember Chesterton's famous response when he was asked to write an essay about what was wrong with the world of his time? He wrote "I am." as his total response.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


I am... Not Chesterton.


I see not how the woes that befall our society could be remedied without the study of such woes. I have placed great study upon my own shortcomings and it is in this study that I have found revelation in that these shortcomings are displayed in others too.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 

Dear Symbiot,

I think I agree with you. Certainly, the sins of a society are simply the sins of a man writ large. As you say, the best place to observe a sin is from within, if we can face it honestly. And once you've learned about it, and it's tricks, you can see it more easily in others.

The only reminder I would give (unnecessary in your case, I'm sure) is that we use that knowledge, in love, to help our brother while respecting his dignity, independence, and value as a man.

Thanks for your post,

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread876182/pg1#pid14865654]post by


Apparently in the old testament marriage is defined as between a man and a prisoner of war. Never read the old testament myself I saw that shared on Facebook and cannot account for its authenticity. However; I do agree that marriage has become an institute of war, as if it were ever not. Now I was speaking in the form of example, an example of a few of the pitfalls one is likely to encounter from the sins listed in the Bible. I find that the worlds wealthiest make a good example because many of them display all of these sins so well. Now this man you knew who was not in collusion with his competition, did he not pay taxes to those who would empower his competition? Did he not uphold a nation or ideology that empowered those who would only use their wealth to subjugate, deceive and manipulate? He sounds like a man who, at least at some point in his life, desired to bring a little honesty to a dishonest world. To me his mistake lies in that one cannot fight fire with fire for they would only fuel the flames. As for people who are upset about paying 35% while those with more pay less. This is the system they bought into. If you do not want the rich to take advantage of the poor then you do not want America. America could be Rome's twin brother and this is how Rome worked too. When you give people the power to command legions they will abuse that power. Surely some of them do desire to do good, but you will never be able to weed out the corruption. There will always be those liars, those charismatic speakers who con and


The quote is not from the Old Testament; but, an amusing joke. As for my marriage, we hardly ever argued. She lost her mind later in life. She is actually a good example of the same principle. While we were married, she never had to work and could do anything she wanted. She wanted to be a nurse and I tried to get her to go back to college; but, she wouldn't because it was too easy. After the divorce, she went back to college and was the class Valedictorian. Some people are at their worst when they have it to easy and some people are at their worst when troubles arise.

As for my friend. He was an honest man trying to make things better. We fought a whole industry together and won and made it better. He wasn't political, he hated politicians, they were always trying to get in his pocket. At his death party (it truly was a party, they really knew how to remember him) his family and friends all reminded me of how I was the only person in government that he respected and trusted. He hid from government as much as possible, he thought they were all crooks. I came to eventually pretty much agree with him, not all; but so darn many. I am not quite sure what you think he should have done. I only ever saw him do the right thing in these matters and he could have paid a politician to make everything go his way and he never did. If he had, he would not have been my friend and would have been my enemy. He could have and he knew which one and he never did. We spent three years and he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting a little corruption. He fought in the arena he chose to fight in.

As for taxes, I do not care, give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. The point is that the world is unfair and it has always been so and it always be so. The difference is that the sheep think it shouldn't be unfair unless they win. The iron rule of oligarchy remains in effect, all societies eventually become oligarchies. That doesn't mean they have to like it, it is wrong, the system is rigged and they are putting it in our face. The sheep just figured out that they were sheep and they don't like it. It is not wrong for everyone to pay a flat percentage in taxes regardless of the source of income, that would be fair and it isn't going to happen.

The wealthy are not any different than the rest of us, it is just apparent what their weaknesses are. Wealth is you on steroids. Money can be a drug. Success can be a drug and people find drugs attractive.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


Well I am sorry to hear of your loss, regarding your friend. I'm probably saying that he and I, and you and I, probably had somewhat similar goals regarding corrupt politicians and pocket thieves, but merely differ in our strategies. Now I only know of what you've told me so far and obviously I could be wrong, but it sounds as though your friend tried to fight the system with the system, hence my fighting fire with fire reference. I suppose I am not saying that strategy is wrong, only that I would prefer a different strategy for myself. It sounds like he was given a hard time by a bunch of crooks and really who isn't these days, it's just not always quite so apparent to everyone. Though I agree that it is becoming more and more apparent to the 'sheep' as you say and honestly I think that the greed of these crooks is one of their biggest shortcomings. Their greed is a driving force behind their thievery, but in the end it drives them to take things so far that their corruption becomes harder to hide until one day we all see it out in the open and rebel against it. Such has happened time and time again, from the Sumerian slave rebellion to the fall of Rome and the soon to be fall of America, in my opinion.

As for that which is Caesars, I have no problem giving him that which is his, but simply because he says it is his does not mean that such is true. I know full well that the rich are every bit as human as everyone else and agree that their wealth emphasizes their weaknesses which is why I found them to be a good example of where these weaknesses might lead. There are a lot of people out there that idolize the wealthy and idolize great riches and even though they may not have much they seek to become like the rich and have much. I'm telling them that even though the rich appear to have it all, I feel that all they really have is misunderstanding and a life devoted to tying up loose ends on their lies. So even though it might appear that riches are something to be sought, I believe it is all an illusion and riches will bring one no happiness and no peace, a false goal, a false idol. Society demands that we prove our worth, but it is in that proving ground that we become jaded and corrupted.

Edit: I'm summarizing a bit by the way, I understand that not all of the rich have the misunderstanding and devotion to lies, but nonetheless I feel that their riches have only bought them more trouble rather than any form of peace or happiness.
edit on 29-8-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-8-2012 by Symbiot because: Ytpo


In addition to that I think I'm also saying that I do not believe these sins, these traits, to be a natural aspect of humanity, but rather an aspect from a society that demands their implementation. Where there was this "greed is good" philosophy in America the philosophy has been proven false for look what it has brought us. Greed has brought America to its knees, now a festering pile of corruption and deceit America lies in ruin. Honestly I think the Bible had a point when it called these sins deadly, where on the surface it might appear that one could use these traits to their advantage, in the end they lead only to suffering and pain.

As for what you might be thinking as stereotyping the term rich or wealthy, where I do use the terms in my original post I go on to define the type of person I am speaking of. If you know someone that has many riches, but does not meet the criteria that I have defined then I am not speaking of him. I say the rich, but I also believe that I gave definition to what I meant by this.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-8-2012 by Symbiot because: (no reason given)






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